Malaysian airlines 777 crashed in Ukraine

[tomcatter]

This is really a very sad thing, 295 killed, most families.

 

This is gonna change the game, for sure.

 

It is not acceptable that a civil aircraft was shoot down flying over Europe.

Edited July 17, 2014 by tomcatter

[Aginor]

Well, I guess they do have functional ones, since I don't think it is very likely that the An-26 a few days ago was shot by MANPADS either.

[Ktulu2]

Did anyone read the BIG RED outline on top of evry page of this forum??

Dear users! We urge you to refrain from discussing political topics on our forums. Thank you for understanding.

[RIPTIDE]

http://cs620617.vk.me/v620617799/11fe3/amxYLvs358w.jpg

Photo from Snizhne today...

How the hell did a bunch of separatist get their hands on something like this?

They captured an entire UKR AD centre earlier which included BUK TELs and TELARs and a bunch of SA-13 Strelas.

 

They don't have the Snow Drift Search. But, just like in our beloved SIM, the TELAR can be operated without it, although less efficiently.

[RIPTIDE]

I can absolutly not understand how they let airliners fly over war zones, this kind of denial pisses me off. Allways someone has to die before they act....

Deck of 7500metres IIRC for that zone. 10km is permissible. There is a bunch of airliners flying over that area or thereabouts regularly.

[RIPTIDE]

With respect I'm not trying to cause a flame war, but how can you discuss this topic without mentioning the political ramifications it might cause??!?

I guess we are allowed to focus on the Aviation side of it. ;)

[SkateZilla]

Deck of 7500metres IIRC for that zone. 10km is permissible. There is a bunch of airliners flying over that area or thereabouts regularly.

 

Actually, Several other Major Airlines have been avoiding that area, Only MH and 2 Others fly through that area now.

[PFunk1606688187]

I guess we are allowed to focus on the Aviation side of it. ;)

 

Well then there really isn't much left to discuss, unless we want to start making grotesque analyses of what happens to people when they get hit by Buk missiles.

[goodOne]

With respect I'm not trying to cause a flame war, but how can you discuss this topic without mentioning the political ramifications it might cause??!?

 

edit: ok maybe a started to go on a tangent, but really it's not going to harm anyone and if it did... well sticks and stones is all I have to say.

unfortunately we don't have enought information to know for sure whether it was an accident or provocation but we shouldn't forget what had happed after RMS Lusitania was sunk

[Cefalea]

 

 

 

I dont see traces of smoke before the explosion, so maybe it wasnt a missile.

[RIPTIDE]

Well then there really isn't much left to discuss, unless we want to start making grotesque analyses of what happens to people when they get hit by Buk missiles.

Well... the Blackboxes have been recovered by the Federalists Militia operating in the area, according to some reports. They are sending them to Moscow supposedly. Also there are 'Lifenews' photos and footage from the area. They don't operate a censor on their images so we can't post it here. It's horrific.

[Aginor]

I dont see traces of smoke before the explosion, so maybe it wasnt a missile.

You wouldn't see it on those videos, those were recorded minutes after the crash, and if the plane was flying at >30,000ft. the hit happened several miles away from that area. (so any trails would be gone)

[Yurgon]

Posted by Der Spiegel today:

 

Nach dem Absturz hat sich die Lufthansa entschlossen, den Luftraum in dem Gebiet bis auf Weiteres zu meiden. Ähnlich reagierten andere Airlines. "Es gab und gibt derzeit keine Sperrung des Luftraums der Ukraine", sagte Lufthansa-Sprecher Michael Lamberty SPIEGEL ONLINE. Dennoch habe sich die Airline entschieden, "von sofort an den ostukrainischen Luftraum weiträumig zu umfliegen".

Translation:

 

After the crash, Lufthansa decided to avoid the airspace in that region for the time being. Other airlines reacted in a similar fashion. "There was and there is no exclusion zone of the Ukrainian airspace", Lufthansa spokesperson Michael Lamberty told SPIEGEL ONLINE. But the airline had decided "to avoid the eastern Ukrainian airspace by a large margin".

Lufthansa is obviously one of the bigger airlines around. I'd have thought they'd be among the first to fly around warzones, but apparently they only decided to do so today. :noexpression:

[Emu]

A case for corporate manslaughter against Malaysian Airlines?

 

 

Posted by Der Spiegel today:

 

Translation:

 

Lufthansa is obviously one of the bigger airlines around. I'd have thought they'd be among the first to fly around warzones, but apparently they only decided to do so today. :noexpression:

Saving fuel is more important than the safety of passengers it would seem.

[VTJS17_Fire]

R.I.P. to all passengers! :cry:

 

Anyone did a great mistake today ...

[PFunk1606688187]

unfortunately we don't have enought information to know for sure whether it was an accident or provocation but we shouldn't forget what had happed after RMS Lusitania was sunk

 

How does a Boeing 777 provoke a SAM system? By turning the weather radar on?

[mig29movt]

 

It is not acceptable that a civil aircraft was shoot down flying over Europe.

 

Said, 2014 :cry: :helpsmilie:

[ericoh]

How does a Boeing 777 provoke a SAM system? By turning the weather radar on?

 

He ment a provocation from any of the in ukraine involved sides, not the aircraft itself.

[xaoslaad]

He ment a provocation from any of the in ukraine involved sides, not the aircraft itself.

 

Right. It's seeming like in all likelihood it was shot down at this point, but it's still in the realm of possibility it wasn't.

[Aginor]

If it were the separatists, they probably confused it with a military cargo plane. They reportedly twittered that they shot down an AN-26, just minutes before the 777 crashed.

If it weren't the separatists, then, well, I don't know actually. It doesn't make much sense if you're not into conspiracies, and I'm not.

 

Btw: a Su-25 was also shot down today. Pilot ejected. I wonder what he will say, I guess he will know what hit him. That might help to put everything in perspective.

[Scrim]

Why would he know what hit him, other than maybe that it was a missile fired from the ground? Older WP aircraft don't have Western style RWRs that tell them what sort of weapons system is targeting them, and even those work way too well in simulators if you ask people who actually have to rely on them IRL.

 

It was the separatists, who else? Would the Russians shoot down a random plane out of the sky because "hey, we're the bad guys or whatever"? Would the Ukrainians do it because "hey, the separatists have really been pounding us lately with their airforce"?

 

No and no. There's only one faction in that area that has shot down aircraft. Saying "no no no, that's political" is nonsense. In that case it's political to say that water is a liquid.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Wouldn't surprise me if the black box, found by separatists, would "disappear". The plane was traveling west to east (over Ukrainian territory for a long distance), so it would be surprising to me if the Ukrainians shot it.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[ericoh]

If it were the separatists, they probably confused it with a military cargo plane. They reportedly twittered that they shot down an AN-26, just minutes before the 777 crashed.

If it weren't the separatists, then, well, I don't know actually. It doesn't make much sense if you're not into conspiracies, and I'm not.

 

Btw: a Su-25 was also shot down today. Pilot ejected. I wonder what he will say, I guess he will know what hit him. That might help to put everything in perspective.

 

Reports say the An was shot down over 60 minutes before. I doubt that both incidents have ANY relation.

[Aginor]

Why would he know what hit him, other than maybe that it was a missile fired from the ground? Older WP aircraft don't have Western style RWRs that tell them what sort of weapons system is targeting them, and even those work way too well in simulators if you ask people who actually have to rely on them IRL.

 

I am not 100% sure, but I think a SU-25 pilot will notice a Radar lock-on by a Buk.

And if he didn't perhaps he saw the missile trail or something? Not necessarily, but it is possible.

 

As for the rest: There are other possibilities, but as I said, I am not a fan of conspiracy theories. I just don't rule out anything because I know almost anything.

 

EDIT: @ericoh:

Except as far as we know there wasn't a AN-26 shot down today.

[Bucic]

One of the separatist leader, Strelkov, was publicly stating, that they have shot down a plane

http://std3.ru/ef/41/1405610146-ef41d7464b30da37118c8bf6c86d11e6.png

That was around the time the Malaysian plane dissapeared.

 

Also there are reports that bodies are scattered in area around 15km from the crash site, which suggest that the plane atleast partialy disintegrated in-flight.

 

edit: translation

"We just shot down An-26 (note:ukrainian transport plane used by military) near the city of Torez, the debris is lying somewhere close to the coal-mine "Progress. " We have warned before not to fly in "our sky." And here is the video confirmation that "the rain of dead birds" continues. The plane fell behind a spoil tip, the residential sector is not caught. Civilians are not injured.

Is there a way to confirm the exact time of the post?