EDGE. At What Cost?

[Mustang]

;2156715']God knows what the difference is...

 

I have 4770K @4.5GHz

16GB RAM @2000MHz

SDD samsung 840 pro

770OC 4GB (clocked higher again cant remember what to)

 

get >60 FPS generally, CPU is not that much better so I don't really understand the FPS difference.

 

As for poor performance on aging machines, as I see a lot on this forum...

 

With Moores Law and all you can't expect good frames from a 5 year old machine on a simulator that is still in dev in 2014, despite its aging core engine. Not even going to get into the comparison in performance between DCS and War Thunder.... :doh:

 

I'm with you here, i've just went from an old Core2duo rig to an i5 4670k @3.8 and i have never seen such a huge jump in frames, even with this 'mid-spec' HD7850 i'm re-using i am getting minimum FPS of 25-30 and typical frames up at 50-60.

[cichlidfan]

I'm with you here, i've just went from an old Core2duo rig to an i5 4670k @3.8 and i have never seen such a huge jump in frames, even with this 'mid-spec' HD7850 i'm re-using i am getting minimum FPS of 25-30 and typical frames up at 50-60.

 

Are you actually saying that no matter what is going on, you never drop below 25 fps?

[Cibit]

Biggest gains for me came with doubling Ram from 6 to 12gb. When checking resource monitor with 6gb I had between 0 and 50 mb free ram.

[Mustang]

Are you actually saying that no matter what is going on, you never drop below 25 fps?

 

From what i've witnessed so far yes, and this is in servers with 26 or more clients, many ground units etc - maybe there's something special about these Haswell cores that DCS likes :)

 

edit: well something that does lower the FPS is the engine smoke, if i plant my external camera behind my jet or others nearby the frames lower OR if i force supersampling on my 7850.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Mustang

[NineLine]

I am curious how EDGE is going to change aircraft development schedules and timeframes?

 

Since we are likely to end up with four new aircraft in about two to three month time frame (Sabre, Dora, Mig & Hawk), how much more frequent do you think releases will get?

 

The way I understand it, that the team developing EDGE and maps, is separate from the teams doing aircraft. So it really shouldn't effect aircraft output....

[cichlidfan]

edit: well something that does lower the FPS is the engine smoke, if i plant my external camera behind my jet or others nearby the frames lower OR if i force supersampling on my 7850.

 

That edit is what I was looking for. Certain effects are frame killers, no matter what you are running.

[WRAITH]

DCS EDGE + Global MAP SDK Supporter

 

Hey all,

 

Well after someone shared this in a thread i cant find took some Googling to find it..........................

 

 

I am excited and I think the next update will be a complete new DCS sim by the sounds of it!

 

Once we have EDGE Update 2.0.0 code will be optimized to run /write more GFX to your GPU and free CPU for hard processing functions is the train of thought that I have read in Forum when I get a chance.

 

It should run pretty smooth on current systems with the ability to up or lower your GFX settings as per your preference for performance, it shouldn't impact your system if it is as described in my hunting for info!

 

As well as reading there will be an SDK for more MAP Theaters and Campaigns I hope............ all this going by a few weeks of reading and Googling info on DCS EDGE project! Phewww!

 

 

Get you fix of Nevada screenshots:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...46#post1309446

 

NOTE: None of this is 100% official. This is me helping you putting information into one spot.

 

 

What is EDGE?

EDGE, dubbed internally, Eagle Dynamic Graphic Engine, is a new Image Generator (IG) built from the ground up that allowed for numerous benefits to the DCS environment.

 

What is the Image Generator (IG) people keep mentioning?

An Image Generator (IG) is another way of describing what EDGE is. Image Generator (IG) is a generic term for something that generates the images on your screen. EDGE a self coined term by c0ff to describe the Image Generator (IG) and is simply an acronym.

 

When will EDGE be released?

Since EDGE is built from scratch, it will take time to incorporate all the elements that are needed to make it playable at acceptable frame rates.

 

What are the benefits to EDGE?

· EDGE allows for Direct X 11 support

· Dynamic shadowing of the terrain and mountains

· Clipmap support

· Higher object count

· Higher resolution ground terrain mesh

· More detailed tree models

· Better graphical effects

· High resolution road textures

· Ability for road signs and light signals

· Additional ground clutter (rocks, cactuses, etc.)

 

Will the Black Sea map in its current form work with EDGE?

No. Since the technology behind EDGE is dramatically different, down to the tools that create it, terrain needs to be built with the EDGE benefits in mind. This is a HUGE undertaking and not an easy task to redo something.

 

Are there maps in progress that take advantage of EDGE?

Yes, the first map to take advantage of EDGE is Nevada.

 

How far along is the Nevada map?

It has been stated that the Nevada map is mostly done but work remains to finish the underlying EDGE engine.

 

If the Nevada map is mostly done, why not post some screenshots to the community?

EDGE is the underlying core of the Nevada map. If EDGE is in a state where it is not capable of running or showing off its potential, (bad frames, no anti-alisting/ ‘jaggies’, etc), screenshots might not be possible.

 

How big is the Nevada map?

There is no official distance/ surface number, but it has been said that it will include Las Vegas, Groom Lake, Nellis, Lake Mead, and Hoover Dam.

 

Will EDGE/ Nevada cost anything?

EDGE is rendering engine, so no. It has been stated that the plan is still for the Nevada map to be free for users who pre-ordered DCS: A-10C Warthog beta.

 

So what will Nevada cost if I did not pre-order?

See Below

 

How will I switch between maps?

When creating a new mission, the authors can specify what map to use. This feature is already implemented but there is only the current map.

 

 

Typical questions that do not have answers:

Will trees be collidable?

What is the size of the Nevada map?

Are the creation tools going to be made available to the public?

What is the cost of Nevada if I did not pre-order DCS: A10C?

When will new screenshots be posted?

When will it be released?

 

---

 

June 2013

 

Work On New Rendering Technology Continues

 

The new Image Generator (IG) technology is currently in development and will be introduced to DCS World when it is ready. Elements of the new IG include:

- More detailed terrain.

- Better graphical effects

- Dedicated server

- DirectX 11 support

- Skeleton animation for infantry

 

---

 

A few items to reiterate:

 

1- Much of the Nevada map is done, but aspects of it could certainly change between now and release.

 

2- The original effort was done by a third party, but for various reasons, that effort did not work out and the Eagle team basically had to re-start it from scratch.

 

3- Due to the massive number of ground objects, elevation mesh detail, and texture sizes, a new image generator (IG) had to to be created in order to run it at more than single digit frame rates. Creating a new IG is a huge undertaking and it takes a lot of time. More so than anything else, this has been the reason behind the delay.

 

4- There has been no change in our plan to make this map available for free to those that purchased the A-10C beta.

 

5- Given the nature of the map, I would imagine that most missions will revolve around training, but certainly large Red Flag type campaigns are also possible.

 

6- We have no ETA at this time.

 

When there is a change to any of the above, there will be official news of it.

Internet Reference:- http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5723

 

 

 

It sounds great! :thumbup:

 

I also keep reading these links and thought to share here for those that dont visit Forum much...............

 

 

• http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116893
  

 

 

 

• http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...26&postcount=1
  

 

 

 

• http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...89&postcount=1
  

 

 

 

• http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=276
  

 

 

 

• http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=255
  

 

 

 

• http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=323
  

 

 

 

• http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=338
  

 

There is heaps of info on new Air Craft in development for DCS in these links

 

Hopefully more of what I have included in my list also here............. http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...02&postcount=6

 

Hoping that whats promised will be developed, thats all we can do! :thumbup:

 

Cheers,

 

:beer:

Edited August 25, 2014 by WRAITH

[NineLine]

At any time whenever the community brings these issues up, the response is always more or less the same, the developers have no time to fix them because they are working on EDGE.

 

I think you are miss reading what has been said, its true that most bug fixes are waiting for EDGE, but only because the latest development version is in EDGE, so most fixes and such cant be easily moved to the release version. You see a few fixes trickle through with the new aircraft, but this is just what we have to deal with at this stage of development...

 

Maybe I am wrong, if so point me to were the devs are telling you they have no time to fix bugs because of EDGE? Bugs are being fixed all the time as stated above.

[Blooze]

I would imagine that ED is focused on future customers rather than addressing issues brought up by those who have already spent their money.

[NineLine]

I would imagine that ED is focused on future customers rather than addressing issues brought up by those who have already spent their money.

 

 

Obviously new products brings new money, and money is what makes the world go around, I dont think that means they are abandoning or dont care about existing customers or products....

[outlawal2]

I would imagine that ED is focused on future customers rather than addressing issues brought up by those who have already spent their money.

 

LOL the cynics have just completely overtaken this forum haven't they?

:doh:

 

Certainly ED would focus on new customers, but EDGE, the different polls asking about which planes and eras are of interest, the updates etc. greatly affect the existing customer base...

 

I am generally considered someone on the slightly cynical side of realistic, but folks on this forum are the most doom and gloom bunch I have ever dealt with...

 

Must be a cold, dark and cruel world you live in my friend... :(

 

Come visit my side of things and you will see the best Flight sim ever created... At a reasonable price point and support for a plethora of hardware equipment. Also, there are currently multiple eras represented with anything from WW2 all the way to current equipment all modeled with unparalelled fidelity and all this is reachable using a $1000 computer that can be purchased nearly anywhere. Belsimtek have provided 2 tremendous helicopters and a 3rd is on the way...

 

Also in my DCS World we have all the above "But WAIT, there's more!" We have several trainer airframes being developed for those folks that want a true career experience... So even if you don't want to blow stuff up, you can still partake in fully detailed training scenarios to take you from green newbie all the way to seasoned pilot and to ready you to move on to more formidable planes in a realistic manner.. (Rather than just strapping into a $30 Million dollar aircraft and crashing it 20 times in a row...)

 

Along with the trainers, on the horizon is the F-18 from DCS, The Typhoon from VEAO and a version of the Cobra...

 

ED is developing EDGE which will bring this sim up to current DirectX standards boosting the already excellent visuals far beyond their current state and yet will still provide this for free along with a fully functional airframe in the SU25...

 

I don't know guys I think we all need to take a collective deep breath and look at how GOOD we have things RIGHT NOW, and the fact that things are only going to get better.. But remember that this is a VERY small team of individuals...

[kontiuka]

Obviously new products brings new money, and money is what makes the world go around, I dont think that means they are abandoning or dont care about existing customers or products....

true. because existing customers are future customers.

[Blooze]

Obviously new products brings new money, and money is what makes the world go around, I dont think that means they are abandoning or dont care about existing customers or products....

 

Looking forward to future customers can be invigorating while caring for existing customers can quickly become a burdensome necessity. It's just human nature IMO and to expect otherwise would be harboring an unrealistic expectation, which usually leads to disappointment, which is what this thread is all about.

[Boberro]

The game runs and looks very nice for what it does. Considering the amount of physics simulated the game has at some point prioritize between making stuff look nice and having realistic physics. And it does it really well. The game looks great, amazing and it is up there with other high end games in terms of visuals where it matters, which is detailed cockpits, realistic clouds. Close to the ground objects look a bit less detailed and the ground itself is not as smooth up close but that is something I dont need so much. I prefer photorealistic clouds when flying into a sunset with a jet and flappy rotor blades when taking off with a helicopter.

 

Also people mistake the term "engine" for something it is not. And engine is just a pile of code that is or is not maintained and or updated. It is not a piece ot programming that fell from the sky at some point in time and cant be changed. So when people complain about the current "engine" being too "old" they are getting it all wrong.

 

I dont get all the complaining either, the game looks and feels amazing (feel is where all the CPU power is going btw)

 

 

So your statement is wrong, the game does actually offer very efficient graphics for what it demands from CPU and GPU. Consider all the systems on the aircraft you are flying which are simulated in real time. BF4, which is a nice game in its own right, is not a simulator of this depth so it can afford using extra horsepower on making the game look nicer.

 

Well to be honest, everyone has different point of taste. For me balance between requirements and results is not so good - moreover people have plenty of cores in own machines and they are rarely used at all. It is not CPU fault, it is programmers one.

So this is the chance. Newer engine, newer solutions. Better they use it, because they will not make new Edge in minimum 5 years and we will be stuck what it is going to be given.

A lot of PC power goes to unknown. Graphic effects are not hollywood ones, terrain shape and complexity is quite poor. Only 3D models are great and un-see things like physics.

 

One's said to me "DCS is great sim, but only for single player". I can't say he is wrong.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Boberro

[NeilWillis]

It just proves the adage - you can't please all the people all the time.

 

The original question was a rather pointless one. Edge will of course require a lot of programming, and that will naturally mean there are less people available to fix bugs in the short term. But would you prefer it if they didn't go all out to modernise the graphics?

 

It stands to reason that they can't put all their resources into software that is shortly due for a big update. No doubt that will cause a few issues when it lands too, and THEN the hard work of ironing out the wrinkles will happen. I also suspect that they want to make the roll out a big step, and are perhaps holding back on some stuff.

 

Bottom line, DCS is going to take a leap forwards soon, and let's face it, if you want to cut off your noses to spite your faces by walking away from the ONLY flight sim that reaches the heights that DCS does, then OK, bye bye. We won't miss your gripes.

 

On the other hand of course, if you are just whining for the sake of whining with no intention of following up on your "threats" then boy will you look stupid soon.

 

The fact is, and remains, that despite the shortcomings of the current version, it is still streets ahead of anything else on the market. Where will you take your joystick, back to FSX? On to ILS2 BOS? Both excellent sims of course, but can you take control of an APC within the same battle environment and provide JTAC to a bunch of guys flying on the same server? Can you experience what a tail dragger really feels like on the take off roll? Know anywhere you can get a taste of real helicopter physics to the level you can here?

 

The comment I read about DCS only being any good for single player frankly made me laugh. Join any virtual squadron and tell me that after you have had a few days co-op flying.

 

But hey, don't let us stop you deluding yourselves, why should we bother wasting our breath when you clearly can't see the wood for the trees! (OK, maybe not in quite such breathtaking detail as you can on a game where realism takes second place to looking pretty, but that's another matter of course).

Edited August 26, 2014 by NeilWillis

[OB1]

The comment I read about DCS only being any good for single player frankly made me laugh. Join any virtual squadron and tell me that after you have had a few days co-op flying.

 

:thumbup: DCS is my #1 MP sim. No other game/sim gives the same level of satisfaction, the only frustrating thing is we want more !!!! it's the only dissatisfying thing about this sim - the rate of development, which is understandable.

 

First world problems... its a killer :joystick:

[Solty]

To me bringing this game to a state where MG burst is not making the game lagg and slow down is VITAL.

 

We need better looking visual DM that would reflect the impacts of weapons better and much better spotting system, it is near impossible to spot somebody from 2000m above, and MOST IMPORTANT we need better optimisation. So I am supporting the way of EDGE!!!!

 

Just make small thing right. The whole graphics issue is not in the world it self but in particle effects that take too much from our PCs and show not too much. Just look how Project Reality did it! They made an old engine look amazing why? Not through complex overhaul of textures. Most of it is still vanila BF2... but the effects that are so fluid and so natural make it so much more immersive!

 

 

SOUNDS and DETAIL of bullet impacts, effects etc. make the game immervise, not only texture quality. I think that the world's engine in this game is pretty good and only needs optimisation.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Solty

[NeilWillis]

To me bringing this game to a state where MG burst is not making the game lagg and slow down is VITAL.

 

We need better looking visual DM that would reflect the impacts of weapons better and much better spotting system, it is near impossible to spot somebody from 2000m above, and MOST IMPORTANT we need better optimisation. So I am supporting the way of EDGE!!!!

 

Just make small thing right. The whole graphics issue is not in the world it self but in particle effects that take too much from our PCs and show not too much. Just look how Project Reality did it! They made an old engine look amazing why? Not through complex overhaul of textures. Most of it is still vanila BF2... but the effects that are so fluid and so natural make it so much more immersive!

 

 

SOUNDS and DETAIL of bullet impacts, effects etc. make the game immervise, not only texture quality. I think that the world's engine in this game is pretty good and only needs optimisation.

 

That's exactly where we are. Small, but meaningful mods are being asked for, and that has to be a sign that DCS haven't got things so terribly wrong, don't you agree? What we are looking at are tweaks, ways of improving something that is already pretty damned good.

 

Would you call any of these issues a deal breaker Solty? Positive postings are much more to the point, and there is nothing at all wrong in asking for improvements. Whether we'll get them soon, or have to wait a while is something beyond our power, and the scope of this forum in my opinion.

 

Impatience is NOT a virtue, but a desire to move the sim forwards is never a bad thing.