Joystick "Black Mamba" from VKB FSC Europe

[Lenux]

Is there z axis rotation , for this joystick?

[Bourrinopathe]

No twist axis by design. It requires a dedicated rudder control.

[Lenux]

What do you mean ?

[hansangb]

It means you can't twist the joystick to simulate a rudder. You have to buy a separate rudder like Milan's MFG or Saitek rudders.

[Bourrinopathe]

Exactly ;)

VKB's "hi-end" flight sticks have been designed with separated rudder pedals in mind (to avoid involuntary rudder inputs and achieve an extreme precision with the x and y axes).

The MFG Crosswind, Slaw and Saitek pro/combat rudder pedals could complete your controls.

 

We should have some news about the VKB T-Rudder MkIV pretty soon (no physical brake axes (virtual brakes implementation is still WIP)).

VKB is also working on a controller HUB called "Black Box" (we should be able to connect all our devices to that hub, and then the hub to the computer as one big device).

 

[Bourrinopathe]

Do i have a chance to buy ( somewhere / somehow ) the joystick "Black Mamba" ?

I mean this one :

https://flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/vkb-fat-black-mamba-for-non-eu/

 

A fellow simmer wants to sell his brand new Vintage Black Mamba MkIII (+ Warthog adapter).

 

Who will be fast enough? ;)

[AVX0]

And some successful surgery (gimbal upgrade MkII -> MkIII):

 

Bourrinopathe, I just received my gimbal upgrade kit (also from mamba Mk.II to Mk. III). But I cannot find any manual or installation instruction for it.

 

Do you have any instruction or installation suggestion? Thanks a lot!

[Bourrinopathe]

Huh… same as you. I just grabbed the tools and gone all-Frankenstein with it ^^

 

It should not be very difficult though.

 

The most worrying part was to remove the sensors as I did not have the required tiny hex key. I used a similar Torx key.

 

Check if you have the right tool first before disassembling your MkII gimbal.

 

Otherwise I took a few photos - I'll try to upload them as soon as I can.

 

Let me know if you have the key to remove the sensors and I'll try to help.

 

- loosen and remove the grip for easier manipulation

- remove the base plate

- unplug the cables inside the base

- remove the gimbal (4 hex screws) (you end up with a part similar to your upgrade)

- check if you have the tool to remove the sensors (two tiny circuit boards)

 

If you manage to remove the sensors, you just have to put them on your new gimbal.

You will have to mount the X (roll) axis sensor inverted (with the connector facing outside - opposite from what you have in the MkII). The Y axis sensor is mounted the same way it is in the MkII.

 

Let us know how it goes.

Also, feel free to can contact me via gmail (same nickname).

 

-------

 

▲

The red arrows show the tiny screws (4) you need to remove to extract the sensors.

 

▲

The X axis sensor will not fit the same way it did in the MkII gimbal.

Just invert the sensor position (components facing the physical axis).

 

▲

Final result with the sensors in place.

Now, you just have to assemble the rest of the flight stick.

(the controller axis connectors are marked "X axis" and "Y axis" (on the circuit board), so you should not invert your axes)

Edited March 22, 2016 by Bourrinopathe
amazing low quality pictures

[AVX0]

Bourrinopathe, you are GREAT. Thank you very much. Your information helps a lot!

 

Now I need time and a little courage to open the "black box". :)

[FeistyLemur]

Anyone who's used both a warthog and the new cam style mamba have any feedback on it? How good does the new gimbal feel?

 

I'm hoping I can get catch the gunfighter order when it happens so I'm curious about this gimbal.

[Bourrinopathe]

:thumbsup: Glad it's been helpful AVX0.

 

It's definitely worth the effort switching to the new gimbal.

 

And by the way, the MkII gimbal is closer to the feeling the real russian pilots experience as many russian aircraft use a dual spring gimbal mechanism close to the pincer-type feeling we have with the MkII gimbal (that is in no way inferior to the MkIII, imo).

VKB know their stuff really well.

 

 

There are some very interesting pictures in >>> that thread <<<

 

-----

 

I would also be interested in a comparison between the BM MkIII and the Warthog gimbal feeling.

[Bourrinopathe]

Hi,

I just shared a specific profile configuration for the Su-27 with the VKB Black Mamba.

It's only a few advanced functions using "long press" (500 ms) and a specific modifier. You will have to assign the buttons to the controls in DCS, but your Black Mamba will have more muscles ;)

(contains pictures and some details)

 

>>> HERE <<<

[RFC Rudel]

It means you can't twist the joystick to simulate a rudder. You have to buy a separate rudder like Milan's MFG or Saitek rudders.

 

they have plans for a twist adaptor.

[SinusoidDelta]

Anyone who's used both a warthog and the new cam style mamba have any feedback on it? How good does the new gimbal feel?

 

I'm hoping I can get catch the gunfighter order when it happens so I'm curious about this gimbal.

 

I mads the switch from the Warthog to the VKB Vintage Mamba. I'm now using the Warthog grip on the VKB stick with the adaptor. The difference is night and day.

 

You'll get several different sets of springs and cams so you can tune the amount of stick force you prefer. Stick input is extremely smooth all the way to the axis limits. The required input force increases at a predictable rate. You'll appreciate this greatly if you're aware of 'stiction' problem on the TM warthog.

 

There is no unintended cross talk between pitch/roll axes and their mechanisms are loaded independently. In contrast, adding aft stick on the TM warthog loads the same springs used by the roll axis. So as you pull the warthog aft the response becomes unpredictable in the roll axis making it frustratingly hard to maneuver with any precision.

 

When your hands are off the VKB stick it returns to the exact same center position, something my warthog was unable to do after normal wear and tear.

 

I also purchased the extension for the VKB stick. I used it with the stock VKB plastic grip but the Warthog grip is just too heavy for the larger moment unless you have a very light touch. This was the only real disappointment. There's no way I could go back to the TM Warthog now.

 

There are probably a few things I'm forgetting but that's what the VKB stick did once I used it. I forgot all about the Warthog. Hope that helps!

[HOTAS]

I mads the switch from the Warthog to the VKB Vintage Mamba. I'm now using the Warthog grip on the VKB stick with the adaptor. The difference is night and day.

 

 

I know they don't making them anymore. Its so sad that I missed it. Could you please take a picture of your joystick and is it any way to do it (use TMW) with other their platform. (Joysticks itself looks old as hell - sorry guys it's my opinion)

[SinusoidDelta]

I know they don't making them anymore. Its so sad that I missed it. Could you please take a picture of your joystick and is it any way to do it (use TMW) with other their platform. (Joysticks itself looks old as hell - sorry guys it's my opinion)

 

Here's my Mamba with the Warthog stick. With and without extension:

 

Without extension:

 

With Extension:

 

Without Extension:

 

With Extension:

 

It's a real beauty

 

Edit to add: I would guess the Warthog grip weighs ~3 lbs (~1.5 kg?). So, you can imagine how large of a moment results with a 7 inch (180cm) extension...around a 25 N*m moment force on compact gimbal assembly. And that's just due to weight. The extension feels great with the light plastic stick provided. The action is just way too light and under damped with the warthog+extension. This is a shame because it provides so much more displacement for precision. I hope I can figure something out to make it more usable.

Edited June 15, 2016 by SinusoidDelta

[Bourrinopathe]

[EDIT:

Hey,

Thanks for the pictures SinusoidDelta ;)

cross posts ]

 

The Warthog grip can be used with the Gladiator Pro and the Gunfighter.

The Gladiator Pro is available for preorder.

 

And if everything goes smoothly, the Gunfighter should be available later this year.

 

 

Here's a guide showing how to attach the adapter to the Warthog grip.

You will have to use a specific profile so the WT buttons are all configured.

 

One user also managed to put a CH Fighterstick grip on a VKB base.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Bourrinopathe

[Sokol1_br]

BTW - Now on Amazon.

[Sokol1_br]

(Joysticks itself looks old as hell - sorry guys it's my opinion)

 

 

Well, Gladiator grip is based (not replica) on Luftwaffe KG-12/13 grips from WWII.

 

Mamba (Cobra M-5) grip is loosely based on Su-34 grip.

 

All "vitange". :D

[dburne]

Well, Gladiator grip is based (not replica) on Luftwaffe KG-12/13 grips from WWII.

 

Mamba (Cobra M-5) grip is loosely based on Su-34 grip.

 

All "vitange". :D

 

So what is this, something they have released for the short term until they move on to the Gunfighter? These guys sure confuse me with all the different models then move on to another...

[Bourrinopathe]

In fact, it's more like a slow improvement process.

 

The Cobra flight stick design exists since 2008 and evolved to the Fat King Cobra and then to the Fat Black Mamba and Black Mamba, progressively including more metal and more controls.

The original Black Mamba grip itself is inherited from the first Cobra sticks.

 

The Gladiators are a new line of products focused on the WW2 enthusiasts/sims, and the Gunfighter, still mainly developed with the KG-12/WW2 birds in mind (fully designed to be used with an extender), will be able to naturally evolve to a modern grip inspired from the modern russian jets (Su-35). (and hopefully with a dedicated modern dual-throttle)

 

I'd just like to jump to that last part as soon as possible ;)

Edited June 15, 2016 by Bourrinopathe

[Sokol1_br]

These guys sure confuse me with all the different models then move on to another...

 

Not too much different models:

 

Gladiator and Gladiator PRO (CAM gimbal) - both with KG-12 plastic grip, Cobra M5 (Su-34 like) grip is no longer used - is VKB "work horse" - in their market success depends new versions.

 

Gunfighter at release will use KG 12 plastic grip.

 

Basically is this for 2016.

 

Later (2017?) a "modern" multi-buttons grip based on modern fighters - but not "replica" - and with features for "spacecrafts" (like Saitek?) in those today popular space "sim's".

 

The previous (no longer produced) Mamba line are more "add-hoc" solutions (use third-party Cobra M-5 grip) with limited production to test market.

 

Make joystick grip molds is expensive - they say that cost (in China) like a medium car.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Bourrinopathe]

A kickass grip for a kickass base

 

Next level upgrade for your Black Mamba gimbal:

 

A refurbished MiG-29 grip using the Warthog adapter and circuit board:

 

Beautiful work!

 

[via Reddit/r/starcitizen]

 

[Drooling material (SFW / NSFyoursanity)]

 

His website with more products (you can actually buy):

 

[rrohde]

That Custom Gaming Gear site is very interesting! Thanks for the link, Bourrinopathe!

[Cibit]

Stop posting game controller porn please. My wallet is worried:)