Can't lock target (front aspect)

[Kenan]

I'm flying little under my target, perfectly lined up, all systems ON, SAR missile switch set..when I try to lock a target, the lock breaks instantly..no matter how aligned I am it lasts for half a second and it breaks..only when the target is within visual range (merge) I can lock it.

 

Not sure if this was supposed to be like that or am I doing something wrong? I tried with fighter sized target and huge transports like C-130, the lock gets broken immediately?

Edited September 27, 2014 by Kenan

[lucien]

yeah the radars pretty tricky. You have to really have it in your range else it won't work. But keep trying, it should work eventually. I know I'll mostly be using IR missiles, however, as unreliable as the radar seems.

[Kenan]

You have to really have it in your range else it won't work.

 

That's the thing. It was IN range. No matter what range, the lock would break instantly. The only time it works is WVR. Is 21's radar supposed to work like that?

[anlq]

Using fishbed radar is really tricky. I cant even scan and lock target flying under 1500m. dont know if this is true or not. under 1500 the best way to find target is using Mk2 Eyeballs.

[Eldur]

Mk2 Eyeballs.

 

I severely doubt there are many who have these :lol:

 

Could be a very useful "hardware" upgrade though, as it always has been extremely hard to see things in DCS/LOMAC since ED removed the 2x2 pixel big black dots.

[grifo]

are maybe active some ECM with the hostiles your engaging? This happens to me as well sometimes.. Independently from range, in good low/centered position, my lock drops after half a Second..

[kanami314]

one thing to note is the radar only aims down 1.5deg, so its very easy to run into problems where your nose is too high, especially after turning into targets remember to let the nose sink before rolling out, that should improve your lock on rate. at least thats the one thing that helped me the most. hope it helps.

[Kenan]

Guys, I am going completely nuts here. I tried everything, I can't lock ANY type of target wether it's C-130 or P-51D and I'm not talking 30km range but say 15km or even 10km range..the lock just breaks immediately. If the target is flying at 2000m, I set myself either slighly below that altitude (to scan nose up) or at exactly the same altitude. Nothing.

 

What am I doing wrong? I'm seriously going crazy here.

[Cobra847]

The best way to identify possible bugs is to provide a track. We can also easily see if you're doing something incorrectly. :)

[159th_Viper]

 

What am I doing wrong? I'm seriously going crazy here.

 

Pressed the LST button (CM50)?

[Kenan]

^^What is that? Is it eatable? :D

 

I just press ENTER i.e. lock? What's that button for?

[159th_Viper]

Is it eatable? :D

 

 

Everything's eatable if you're hungry enough :D

 

LST = Low Speed Target

 

It's when your target has a small or no relative speed equal to yourself, ie small closure rate. If you match/are close to the target speed you will struggle to get and maintain lock without the button being depressed/mode engaged.

[Kenan]

^^Hmmm..interesting..didn't know that..thanks for the info. Will give it a try! ;)

[xxJohnxx]

The best way to identify possible bugs is to provide a track. We can also easily see if you're doing something incorrectly. :)

 

As requested I attached a track. In the track I couldn't see the targets on the radar screen, until I went into fixed beam mode. Going back from fixed beam mode to the normal scan mode showed the target for a short time, after it would disappear.

I had no problem locking on in this instance, however I had problems with that in other (similar) systems.

 

Neither the LST-Mode nor the side-lobe filtering made any difference.

 

At higher altitude I couldn't notice this behaviour at all.

Radar Demonstration.trk

[WinterH]

I remember a user in this forum posted that RP-22 was not able to track head on.

 

I have the book "Mikoyan Gruveich MiG-21" by Alexander Mladenov, according to it, radars before RP-22SM were only able to track receding targets from rear aspect, and RP-22SM added some limited side aspect tracking capability.

 

The book does not specifically refer to RP-22SMA, but in my experience with DCS MiG-21Bis, it really seems I can't track head-on, though I have only tried head-on aspect when I was fiarly low, where radar struggles anyway.

 

Guess we'll have to hear from someone in LN, is SMA not able to track from front aspect.

[Kenan]

Tried with the LST button ON..no luck..can't seem to lock target head on..Maybe there is some truth in it (in regards to what WinterH posted)?

[anlq]

As requested I attached a track. In the track I couldn't see the targets on the radar screen, until I went into fixed beam mode. Going back from fixed beam mode to the normal scan mode showed the target for a short time, after it would disappear.

I had no problem locking on in this instance, however I had problems with that in other (similar) systems.

 

Neither the LST-Mode nor the side-lobe filtering made any difference.

 

At higher altitude I couldn't notice this behaviour at all.

 

Correct, I tried some missions with MiG-29/F5/A-50.

I set these at flight level 1500m, my plane is about 500-1000m. I couldn't see them on the radar screen (even at close range under 5km).

But when I switched to Lock-Beam the radar then was able to lock target.

can someone confirm this is a feature of the Fishbed ?

[Luzifer]

one thing to note is the radar only aims down 1.5deg, so its very easy to run into problems where your nose is too high, especially after turning into targets remember to let the nose sink before rolling out, that should improve your lock on rate. at least thats the one thing that helped me the most. hope it helps.

 

Isn't the radar antenna supposed to be gyro-stabilized? Meaning that 1.5 degrees down means "below horizon" not "below airplane center line".

 

Or is that just the RP-21 radar?

[WildBillKelsoe]

I think -1.5° ~ 20° relative to aircraft's axis, not horizon. That's why, in the manual it sez, you either fly higher to avoid clutter, or turn on the filters.

[xxJohnxx]

In this post from beczl he attached a word document that shows some technical data from the RP-22SM. Also indicating that it is at least to some extend stabilized against the horizon (8° climb, -25° dive, +- 70° in bank).

 

EDIT: On page 4 of the very same document there is an image from the locked target. In the horizontal bar that appears, there are indications for 5 and 10km. We don't have those in the sim. I start to wonder if the radar described there is somewhat different to the radar we have in sim?

Edited September 29, 2014 by xxJohnxx

[Cobra847]

The radar is currently gyro stabilized to it's RL limits.

 

The static markers disappearing when the radar is Locked is a bug. (you'll note that the aforementioned 5 and 10km notches are visible when you are in scan mode).

 

Important to remember is that the scan mode view is a top down representation of the scan area, which can feel counter intuitive at first and lead to some confusion.

[xxJohnxx]

Thanks Cobra for your reply!

 

The radar is currently gyro stabilized to it's RL limits.

 

Okay, that is good to know. So it is really that limited. :noexpression:

 

The static markers disappearing when the radar is Locked is a bug. (you'll note that the aforementioned 5 and 10km notches are visible when you are in scan mode).

 

Okay, good to know. So they are not supposed to be there in the scan mode at all? Hmm, then I wrongly assumed in my last video that they would indicate lateral distances to the side. Ups.

 

Anyway, what about the low altitude locking? Is that a limitation of the radar as well? Or are we doing something wrong?

 

Best regards and thanks for the great work,

 

John

[Cobra847]

Thanks Cobra for your reply!

 

 

 

Okay, that is good to know. So it is really that limited. :noexpression:

 

 

 

Okay, good to know. So they are not supposed to be there in the scan mode at all? Hmm, then I wrongly assumed in my last video that they would indicate lateral distances to the side. Ups.

 

Anyway, what about the low altitude locking? Is that a limitation of the radar as well? Or are we doing something wrong?

 

Best regards and thanks for the great work,

 

John

 

Hey John,

 

The 5 - 10km markers should be there for both radar modes. They're just painted onto the radar screen itself, and are visible even when the radar is off under the correct illumination.

 

Noted about Low-altitude locking; I'm unsure at the moment. We'll take a look!

 

Cheers!

[xxJohnxx]

Thanks again for the reply Nicholas

 

The 5 - 10km markers should be there for both radar modes. They're just painted onto the radar screen itself, and are visible even when the radar is off under the correct illumination.

 

Okay, makes sense. They don't have a meaning in scan mode then? They are there, but they are just used in the track mode?

 

Noted about Low-altitude locking; I'm unsure at the moment. We'll take a look!

 

Okay, thanks! If you need any more tracks, let me know!

 

Best regards,

 

John

[anlq]

Hey John,

 

The 5 - 10km markers should be there for both radar modes. They're just painted onto the radar screen itself, and are visible even when the radar is off under the correct illumination.

Noted about Low-altitude locking; I'm unsure at the moment. We'll take a look!

Cheers!

 

Last night I tried catching low-alt target again.

I set a F5 at 1000m-700km/h same direction to my plane (700m-700km/h). I tried several radar mode (Continuous, Weather, Passive ...) with no luck. Target only locked when I switched to fixed-beam. (is fixed beam supposed to use with airbone target ?):noexpression: