A buildings problem

[crazyeddie]

I am trying to improve on a number of the buildings in the game, better looking skins etc.

 

I am beginning to think it a waste of time because of the differences between the same buildings within a city complex and the placement structure of the game, I will explain:

 

I have noticed that buildings that are placed in what are termed 'districts' nearly always (not every skin does) revert to the original old ugly skin, but buildings that are placed on the map within the units_ground.lua setup take on the new skin.

 

I have even tried to remove the .edm file for some buildings but within the 'districts' that building still shows up, which is very peculiar.

 

Here is an example of what I am trying to do:

 

No great science involved, I am simply using the existing newer skins within the game to tart up the older models, it's just eye candy. I have done about a dozen so far and might do a couple more in time. These skins are bigger and I realise that may affect frame rates.

 

 

 

 

My question is: Does anyone know where the 'district' buildings are kept within the game if not in the High/EDM file ? and does anyone know why they take the older skins ?

Edited November 20, 2014 by crazyeddie

[Lilkiki]

Hi Crazyeddie,

 

that are really cool models ! :thumbup:

 

I "think" that all the buildings "district" are hard coded in the Caucasian map datas and you can't just replace .edm files to change them.

 

So basically, I guess that you only can add 3d objects by inserting them as "mods" in the Mods/tech folder (lua is needed)

[crazyeddie]

Thanks Lilkiki, that is what I thought it might be.

 

I will have a long think about creating a few new building mods, using existing buildings with new skins, the game needs it.

 

Eddie

[crazyeddie]

A few more of the buildings I have redone, it's just a personal thing - I like to see more modern looking buildings around my airfields.

 

Some might like them, some won't. I get them into the game by swapping the structure .edm's around and changing the units_ground.lua to suit what I like to see.

 

 

 

 

 

[flanker1]

very nice!!

 

does it mean you have solved the problem you mentioned in your first post - buildings reverting to the old ugly skins in close distance?

Edited November 21, 2014 by flanker1

[Mustang]

Very nice, i'd use them!

[Maverick263]

crazyeddie

very very nice :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[Devrim]

Hi.

 

I worked on some buildings too. But I was too lazy to solve (or work hard) on distance problem. My buildings' small versions are in "block_texture.bmp.dds" in Buildings_textures.zip (located "..\Bazar\Terrain\vfstextures\").

 

I have no idea if the textures you're looking for in it or not...

[NRG-Vampire]

good job Eddie :thumbup:

please release those nice textures :bounce: let us test the fps and differences between districts and non-district objects

Edited November 22, 2014 by NRG-Vampire

[zaelu]

They look good!

[crazyeddie]

I will happily release them when I finish the ones I use but the problem remains as before, you will only see those skins if you have those buildings as placement structures in the Mission Editor.

 

In the towns and "districts" the old skins still show up, so to use them you would have to do some major changes to the .edm files and your db_units_ground.lua. Mine looks nothing like the original now, I have put all manner of things in it, including changes to some vehicles as well.

 

I run my rig on High and I have changed the settings for districts to this in the High.lua:

 

nearFullRenderDistance = 5.0;

nearDistance = 5.0;

 

If you use the original settings the district buildings swap between the older model and the one you replaced it with as you fly away from it, this small change gets over that.

 

Anyway. I will upload them soon and you can use them as you wish

 

PS: If you do a major change like this remember that every time the game updates you will have to redo it, which is a bit of a pain !!!!

[NRG-Vampire]

Anyway. I will upload them soon and you can use them as you wish

 

okay, thanks

 

by the way: how large textures you used ? and how big was the fps hit ?

 

PS: If you do a major change like this remember that every time the game updates you will have to redo it, which is a bit of a pain !!!!

 

that's not a problem: you can put those textures into the mods/tech/textures folder what is an update-safe folder or you can make/use other individual folders what you can move easily to a new updated sim (drag&drop)

Edited November 22, 2014 by NRG-Vampire

[crazyeddie]

NRG

 

Mostly 1024, a few are still 512. I have never checked the fps, my rig is pretty old but high spec and it runs this lot fine.

 

Some, like the polyklinika, are just new roofs because I like the old wall textures as they are, and some of the smaller two story houses, just new roofs toned down a bit to show a darker shade, I see too many bright shiney roofs too far away in the game as it is, very unrealistic.

The next two for treatment are the large warehouse and garage, they stand out from many miles away.

 

I have changed all the texture files to .bmp so all you have to do is dump them in the bazar/temp textures folder which is also update-safe. I can do a set in .dds format as well if anyone would prefer that.

 

If anyone knows how to create a mod that will change some of the .edm files around in shapes and structures let me know and we might be able to make this a permanent feature, I do not know how to do that, I tried once, it didn't work !

 

I have only used texture files from the newer DCS in game buildings, but I'm guessing somebody could adapt some of the buildings to suit a WW2 scenery theme, might even have a go at that myself one day, if I can find some decent texture files to work from. (Il2 comes to mind but I appreciate that might not be acceptable - except for the ones that are mine anyway !!)

[zaelu]

There are mods that modify files and keep them in DDS format but to be updates safe they are installed in folders with the names of the archives in the same paths with the archives. The files from the folders are loaded by the game on top of the ones inside the archives situated beside the folders.

 

DDS is better imho cause you can prebuild MIPs in them and control better the way they see when distance or FOV is changing

[crazyeddie]

There are mods that modify files and keep them in DDS format but to be updates safe they are installed in folders with the names of the archives in the same paths with the archives. The files from the folders are loaded by the game on top of the ones inside the archives situated beside the folders.

 

DDS is better imho cause you can prebuild MIPs in them and control better the way they see when distance or FOV is changing

 

Okay, I will do both .bmp and .dds files for everyone.

 

I think I understand what you mean re a mod and I think that is what I tried some time ago, perhaps I did something wrong, I will have another go next week and see if I can get it right.

[Highwayman-Ed]

If you want a hand with packaging a JSGME mod for this, if be happy to help.

[crazyeddie]

Uploaded to the site, available now.

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1072195/

 

Pack 1, I might do a few more some time in the future.

 

Add to the known issues: The .tga files do not always work, on some buildings they work sometimes, and sometimes they do not work at all, and you are left with a stupid representation of what the safety rails on a roof should look like. I have tried to compensate for that by tarting up the .bmp or .dds file, sometimes it works and sometimes it looks bl**dy awful, sorry, it's the best I can do for now.

 

For the future: Look at the d_sad_a building, the triple H as I would call it, in .lom format that had everything going for it, the side entrance stairs etc were all there, and texturing that would have been a real treat to do, but DCS in their wisdom decided to downgrade all of the buildings for DCS World and what we have now in .edm format is what it is ... slightly boring !!!! Okay, no complaint as such, I know why that was done and I still love this game regardless, but I could do better if I had the skills and if it was wanted.

 

Anyone got the kit to upgrade the .lom files to .edm format. Say yes and I will do the skins.

[crazyeddie]

PS: This is what your airfields could look like if you decided to tart them up a bit:

 

Not everyones taste I know but the possibilities are endless, to boldly go etc ....

 

 

 

[flanker1]

PS: This is what your airfields could look like if you decided to tart them up a bit:

 

Not everyones taste I know but the possibilities are endless, to boldly go etc ....

 

[ATTACH]108004[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]108005[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]108006[/ATTACH]

 

very nice. i like it a lot.

 

i love to see the populated world and nice graphics.

 

which trees do you use? can you if possible make a mod with all these buildings, lamps, airfield infrastructure and trees available in the mission editor?

 

that would be great!

 

by the way: great work with the new skins for the buildings! thank you very much!

[zaelu]

I like your first attempt!

 

I think you should use the exact names of the files so it's better to track them down. I mean to add bmp and tga where it's the case.

 

Also I checked the dds files and none had MIPs. If you are using dds files and you place them in temp folder then it is possible that for big distances the game to revert to original file?!? Also without mips even when working the texture will generate awful looking shimmering pixels when view from far.

 

I would suggest to use the same path of the archive but place the new edited files in folders with the names of the archive.

 

I didn't checked all the buildings but I did saw at least one in the city with the new texture.

 

IMHO if you replace the texture fo an object and the game does not have one to replace it it should show "missing texture".

 

Completely replacing the textures in the corresponding archives would be the best way to make sure the game has no "backup" to use.

 

Obviously using JSGME would be the best solution to test your work.

 

here is how I repacked your textures to see what I mean

 

http://we.tl/dwpOoTgYRw

 

if you have JSGME you can simply place the folder within archive inside _Mods folder and then enable the mod.

Edited November 26, 2014 by zaelu

[crazyeddie]

I had a feeling this was going to come back to haunt me ...

 

What did I do, and how did I do it: Simples really.

 

I swapped .edm files for other .edm files to give me the ones I wanted to use in my Mission Editor, then I tarted up the skins that went with the ones I wanted to use.

 

What buildings and skins to swap, well look at some of the buildings available in the Mission Editor, for example the S1 S2 S3 S4, and the saray buildings, really very poor quality, just blobs on the landscape, so I found some buildings that were worth installing and swapped the .edm's around. I then changed the detail in the units_ground.lua to describe the new building as I see them.

 

I tried using up everything that was in the ground.lua to see just how far I could go with this, and in the process I used up some useful stuff like the Farp's etc, so it is far from perfect and would not suit a full game mod, this is just my idea of what we should be trying to do to improve the game. I don't use Farp's, everyone else probably does.

 

Many years ago a chap called Birdy created a Mod for FC2 that added heaps of buildings to the Mission Editor, which was a real blast to use, but sadly that Mod does not work in DCS World and we seem to be limited to the slots available within the game as it is for now, I have tried to re-create that Mod several times but it never worked, for reasons I know not.

 

I could create a Mod that gives you what I have but there are problems with that, I know nothing about JSGME and I have no idea what mip's are, so whilst I appreciate all the advice offered I am struggling to understand some of it and how it applies to the game.

 

Anyone who has a better way to implement this is extremely welcome to have a go and if it betters the game experience for all of us then I will be happy to help out where I can, but I am getting on in years and time is not on my side.

 

My ambition is to still to be around to see what Edge has to offer ... :(

[zaelu]

There is a thread for JSGME but I'll try to explain it for you in very few words so I might attract you in using it.

 

1. The game has a folder structure with many files.

2. Changing the files in that structures modifies the game. This is nice.

3. Keeping track what was modified is a pain though

4. JSGME does that for you.

 

How is it working?

 

Imagine you have a copy of your game folder but it contains only the folders and files you modified.

 

Say you have this mod for building textures.

 

Now. If you copy all the files from modded folder game and pasted it over the unmodded folder game and accept the overwrite prompt... the game will be modded, right?

 

Now imagine you have installed DCS World on root of C drive and it looks like this:

 

C:\DCS World

 

now imagine you have your modded copy beside it:

 

C:\DCS World modded textures

 

OK

 

So if you copy the content of the second in the first you get the first moded. Right?

 

Remember we said that the second is not the whole game but only the modified parts.

 

So now comes JSGME

 

It has a folder where it keeps all those folders that looks like the game folder but contains only modified parts. Like: C:\DCS World modded textures we talked.

 

In the program you see that name of the folder as a mod. This is neat cause you don't need info files etc.

 

JSGME can copy your modified folders content into original game folder but also makes backup of exactly what it modifies. So when you want to uninstall the mod it deletes all it copied and then puts back the backup files.

 

Lot of head ache is gone this way :).

 

Now on the mips.

 

You can read about it here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mipmap

 

Why I talk so much about it? Cause DCS does not "talk" well with the videocard drivers and the mipmaps are not created correctly or at all.

 

This means that when a nice looking textured object is far... instead of having a smaller texture that would also look good it has a pixelated resized one that combined with all the other textures that also suffer from this will create a very pixelated world although you run gazillion of AA and AF on a super computer.

 

Yo need to understand that the mip maps you create in the dds files do these:

 

1. VGA card has no need to work on resizing the images... they are within the texture.

2. The resized images quality is controlled by the creator o them and not by a wrong algorithm in videocard drivers.

 

Here is a example:

 

say you have this texture:

 

the object is on is far from view so a smaller sized resolution will be used.

 

If you control the smaller mips or textures you can make them filtered like this:

 

 

but if you don't... you may end up with a fast resized without filtering texture... made on the fly by the vga drivers that look like this:

 

 

Now... in my example it may not look as much of a difference... but on textures with lots of details resizing without filtering can ruin the content and when rendered bad artifacts will appear.

 

You can see this on some of the cockpit textures from some planes (like TF P51 for example) when looking at the gauges from zoom out (FOV above 90)... you will see a lot of pixels on the numbers and dials and they dance when you move your head.

 

Now... one last thing

 

BMP and TGA don't suffer from bad mipmapping. When you let your texture TGA (if alpha channels are used) or BMP when no alpha is present the video drivers filter the resized image... but the texture is bigger this way... the DDS file is "zipped"... archived and thus is sent faster to VGA and also occupies smaller memory.

 

That's why DDS with good mip maping is the best solution.

 

small file

good filtering

 

If you look in the cockpit folders of different modules, in resources sub folders you can see a lot of external textures for indications... HUD textures... they are in TGA because ED didn't want to risk them show bad on the monitor. TGA is big but renders nicely. If the same file was made DDS and with bad mips... the HUD indications would have looked very ugly.

Edited November 27, 2014 by zaelu

[crazyeddie]

Thanks for that JSGME explanation zaelu, much appreciated, I will try to get my mind around that approach.

 

I had thought of going down the direct mod approach, something to stuff into the Mods tech folder but there is another problem with my method, I have also removed a load of structure .edm's. These are things I do not like or use, or things that are placed on the map in an inconvenient location (there are lots of those !!!). If that building is worth using I use it by giving it another name in the ground_lua, that gets rid of it from the wrong spot and I can place it where I want it, or it looks best.

 

I do not think there is any way to do that either by a direct Mod or using JSGME other than replacing the whole structures/high/EDM file. and if you did that you might miss out on any new .edm that DCS have installed in an upgrade.

 

PS: Understand what the problem is with mip's now, thanks for that too.

Edited November 27, 2014 by crazyeddie

[RICARDO]

Uploaded to the site, available now.

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1072195/

 

Pack 1, I might do a few more some time in the future.

 

Add to the known issues: The .tga files do not always work, on some buildings they work sometimes, and sometimes they do not work at all, and you are left with a stupid representation of what the safety rails on a roof should look like. I have tried to compensate for that by tarting up the .bmp or .dds file, sometimes it works and sometimes it looks bl**dy awful, sorry, it's the best I can do for now.

 

For the future: Look at the d_sad_a building, the triple H as I would call it, in .lom format that had everything going for it, the side entrance stairs etc were all there, and texturing that would have been a real treat to do, but DCS in their wisdom decided to downgrade all of the buildings for DCS World and what we have now in .edm format is what it is ... slightly boring !!!! Okay, no complaint as such, I know why that was done and I still love this game regardless, but I could do better if I had the skills and if it was wanted.

 

Anyone got the kit to upgrade the .lom files to .edm format. Say yes and I will do the skins.

Hello,

i also notice that weird effect with tga files, it seems that they use to work on old versions but not anymore.

About your problem, do you point the fact that from long distance, textures

still old original one and as soon as you go closer, they pop out with your new ones?

Edited November 27, 2014 by RICARDO

[crazyeddie]

Hello,

i also notice that weird effect with tga files, it seems that they use to work on old versions but not anymore.

About your problem, do you point the fact that from long distance, textures

still old original one and as soon as you go closer, they pop out with your new ones?

 

That happens with some of them, not with all of them. I got around that in part by changing the distance values, I run my rig on High and I have changed the settings for districts to this in the High.lua:

 

nearFullRenderDistance = 5.0;

nearDistance = 5.0;