Any way to make the russian missles work/track?

[TAW_Blaze]

No. This is different. They weren't launching their AIM-7s at Rmax. They were launching at well before Rmax--almost Rmax x 2 or 3. Their missiles were in the air well before I was anywhere near my own -27ER's Rmax. And we were nose on at co-altitude. The launches were so far out of parameters that I didn't even worry about them. They were going to fly past their missiles on their way to me.

 

Interesting. Dem AI logic :megalol:

[GGTharos]

Looks like I'm a signpost now :poster_oops:

 

If you search the forums, you will find dozens upon dozens of threads about missiles ( most of them is GGTharos arguing with people, LOL) Instead of searching the word missile, search post by GG. Easier to find the threads that way.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/search.php?searchid=7854565

[Ironhand]

Looks like I'm a signpost now :poster_oops:

Better than some other options, I suppose... :)

 

 

Rich

[BIGNEWY]

Looks like I'm a signpost now :poster_oops:

 

 

Famous saying

 

" If you build it, they will come "

 

lol ;)

[Bruce_D]

Hi,

 

In offline games I've managed to score hits with 1 missile against F4, F15, F18 and F16 firing in a distance between 40 and 30 km.

 

I use this tactic since FC 1.

 

To reach the ideal parameter before the attack you need to be at least 1,100 km/h and minimal 10 meters above the enemy. Don't stay more than 2,000 meters above the enemy.

 

Before the lock, if the enemy is going to your direction press “Rshift + I” to change your radar frequency to “HI”.

 

Firing distance:

 

You have to count in your HUD the distance between the Launch Authorization (LA) and the moment that you fire. The distance is 2 marks for enemy aircrafts with no ECM and 2.5 for those with it.

 

Look the picture to understand:

 

PICTURE HUD

 

After firing your speed is not important any more, but your altitude is.

 

Turn right and keep the enemy 45º from your aircraft. Example:

PICTURE MFD

 

As soon as you turn, Put and sustain your altitude between 2,000 and 3,000 meters Below the enemy and don’t keep your wings parallels to the horizon.

 

When the enemy starts to turn and dodge your missile press “Rshift + I” to change the radar frequency to “MED”.

 

Your missile will hit the target with a speed of 1,500 km/h. Less than that speed your missile loses track.

 

This procedure is to fire at a maximum range possible to hit a fighter.

 

The problem that I see is (no matter the distance) that when you fire a Russian radar missile you must be below the enemy after firing to track the missile (always between 2,000 and 3,000 meters below). Even with the radar lock the missile will miss if you are not below the enemy. With the IR missile you must be below the enemy before firing.

 

I’m attaching Tacview files. I hope it can help.

Tacview.rar

Edited November 22, 2014 by Bruce_D

[*Rage*]

Over susceptibility of the ERs to chaff has been a bug bear of mine for a very long time. Perhaps it can be modelled that missiles do not even see the chaff till they turn on their seekers a set distance from the target. Seeing ERs divert to chaff off the rail or mid course in BVR upsets me:)

[GGTharos]

Think of it as your radar diverting to chaff ... not unrealistic, but not really implemented either. :)

[Esac_mirmidon]

Even with all this tips taked in count the R-27 is a lot diverted by chaff at almost any range. My misses are not because faulty guidance, not beeing below or not changing pulse radar mode. i have experience enough in how to guide SARH missiles.

 

Simply they get diverted by chaff very often at max-med-min range.

 

It´s funny to see a perfect intercepting trajectory and in a second the missile eats some chaffs and take the long way to Tipperary inside visual range but way off min launch range. i can´t beleive it´s so easy to spoof a missile with a bunch of chaffs. Even this old russian R-27 must have a decent PK ratio. Now it´s almost useless.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Esac_mirmidon

[*Rage*]

Think of it as your radar diverting to chaff ... not unrealistic, but not really implemented either. :)

 

Not when im in a look up situation on a bandit that is flying almost head on. Chaff should be useless unless the bandit is notching.

[*Rage*]

For R-27ER to hit, you need to provide and maintain conditions.

One of them is keeping an eye on the target's altitude and making sure yours is below his at all times during the engagement.

 

These semi-actives are not look down/shoot down type of missiles.

More so than chaff, they are susceptible to terrain masking.

 

It's quality of a launch over the quantity.

They aren't coded to randomly miss.

There's a simulation reason for everything.

 

Provide the conditions, and one missile is enough to hit.

 

Take a look at the air to air missile discussion thread in the generals bugs subforum. I have tested it to death and im afraid your conclusions are wrong. Much as id like them to be right. Nevertheless ED is making progress with regards to missiles.

[Ironhand]

FWIW, I do know that I get better results in a look up situation than look down. Just haven't had the time to spare to quantify it.

 

On another note, as far as PRFs are concerned, why would LShft+I have any effect after lock on. In STT, the radar is transmitting a CS wave, isn't it? There's no pulse repetition to control. But I admit to being very fuzzy on how the radar maintains its lock, since by definition, there's no "listening" phase.

[TAW_Blaze]

Yes, no point changing PRF in STT. It's not quite a CW mode though.

[Frostie]

On another note, as far as PRFs are concerned, why would LShft+I have any effect after lock on. In STT, the radar is transmitting a CS wave, isn't it? There's no pulse repetition to control. But I admit to being very fuzzy on how the radar maintains its lock, since by definition, there's no "listening" phase.

The sim works this way, changing PRF during lock helps keep hold of a lock if the bandit turns cold or beams you. The problem is whilst locking you don't know what mode is selected. RL i'm sure this is irrelevant.

[Ironhand]

The sim works this way, changing PRF during lock helps keep hold of a lock if the bandit turns cold or beams you. The problem is whilst locking you don't know what mode is selected. RL i'm sure this is irrelevant.

I guess I'm not understanding the means by which the radar maintains the lock. STT uses a continuous wave (more or less) because the receiving dish on the missile needs an unbroken "path" to follow. CW is not pulse. So, in STT, the radar is not pulsing. Or is it doing that as well and sending out two types of wave forms at the same time? Is that even possible? That's my dilemma.

 

Is it a mis-modeling that changing PRFs would have any sort of effect at all? I know there are people who swear by it (changing PRFs) while in STT. Personally I've never noticed a difference. But, perhaps, I just haven't paid close enough attention.

 

 

Rich

[GGTharos]

In RL the prf is just about always hprf when weapons are being guided. The radar may be tracking in mprf for example but the moment you try to launch a missile in STT it will attempt to transfer to hprf. AFAIK the missile will not guide without an hprf reflection

[karambiatos]

Over susceptibility of the ERs to chaff has been a bug bear of mine for a very long time. Perhaps it can be modelled that missiles do not even see the chaff till they turn on their seekers a set distance from the target. Seeing ERs divert to chaff off the rail or mid course in BVR upsets me:)

 

I feel all missiles (both IR and radar) are too susceptible to countermeasures, WVR it feels like im playing BF3

[Ironhand]

In RL the prf is just about always hprf when weapons are being guided. The radar may be tracking in mprf for example but the moment you try to launch a missile in STT it will attempt to transfer to hprf. AFAIK the missile will not guide without an hprf reflection

So I've misunderstood what an STT lock is. It is pulsed and not CW.

 

Rich

[TAW_Blaze]

The sim works this way, changing PRF during lock helps keep hold of a lock if the bandit turns cold or beams you. The problem is whilst locking you don't know what mode is selected. RL i'm sure this is irrelevant.

 

Hmm.. maybe I confused it with AAQ. I can't remember now. If you remember the sequence you know which PRF you're switching to though.

[GGTharos]

It depends Ironhand, era/radar set/missile/intended use etc.

 

For example the F-15 had a CW switch, but it was removed at some point.

 

So I've misunderstood what an STT lock is. It is pulsed and not CW.

 

Rich

[Ironhand]

It depends Ironhand, era/radar set/missile/intended use etc.

 

For example the F-15 had a CW switch, but it was removed at some point.

OK. :) So...for the Flanker we "fly", what is modeled?

[GGTharos]

That's a good question - given the technology ERA it should be all HPRF all the way :). I don't know what the failure modes are - I know the F-15 will go to FLOOD if transfer to HPRF fails (ie. cannot maintain lock with HPRF - FLOOD is HPRF).

 

In game though none of this has any effect - locked on = locked on. :)

[Ironhand]

That's a good question - given the technology ERA it should be all HPRF all the way :). I don't know what the failure modes are - I know the F-15 will go to FLOOD if transfer to HPRF fails (ie. cannot maintain lock with HPRF - FLOOD is HPRF).

 

In game though none of this has any effect - locked on = locked on. :)

OK. So I just ran a quickie test with an N of 8. I know that in the past, look down situations have been problematic for me requiring multiple launches for a hit. And x39crazy had been complaining about the difficulty in shooting down an F-4. Earlier this afternoon it was taking me 3 or 4 missiles against the same aircraft (other aircraft weren't quite so problematic).

 

Long story short, against the AI (F-4), I got a hit for each missile I launched in a look down situation, if I switched to HPRF as he started to maneuver. All missiles were launched just as he reached Rtr. That was 7 out of 7. The 8th run, I purposely stayed in Interleaved as he started to maneuver. The missile missed.

 

Admittedly this is a small sampling but...with this approach Rtr seems to actually mean something.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Ironhand

[Kenan]

^^Hey Ironhand, could you post a track please? And what is HPRF? :D

[Ironhand]

^^Hey Ironhand, could you post a track please? And what is HPRF? :D

I'll be glad to but, at this point, it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

 

HPRF = High PRF. Default is Interleaved (ABT). Press LSft+I and you get HPRF. Press a 2nd time and you get M(edium)PRF. Press a 3rd time and you're back to ABT.

 

You can do this yourself, though. Just before you lock, switch to HPRF. Lock. Then launch at Rtr. In the small sample I tried, it was 100%.

[Ironhand]

..

Long story short, against the AI (F-4), I got a hit for each missile I launched in a look down situation, if I switched to HPRF as he started to maneuver. All missiles were launched just as he reached Rtr. That was 7 out of 7. The 8th run, I purposely stayed in Interleaved as he started to maneuver. The missile missed.

 

Admittedly this is a small sampling but...with this approach Rtr seems to actually mean something.

Should have known better than to get excited with such a small sampling. So far this morning--same mission, same technique--completely different result. No hits whatsoever. Oh well.