Aileron trim tab needs adjustment....

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

But the trick used for the Dora no longer works in the K4 :(

 

I would like to reduce the amount of right aileron trim because, over a considerable range of speeds see a tendency for right roll, probably due to over-compensated torque roll ( ? )

 

Also, I had the idea ( I no longer own the Dora ... ) that this had been moved to some kind of option, probably with Ground Crew?

Edited December 6, 2014 by jcomm

[Solty]

I don't know what u talk about. But 109 didn't have alerion trim that would be changeable in mid flight.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Exactly, they were adjustable on ground :) just like in the Dora...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=131508

 

Unfortunately this file does not make part of the K4 module structure, so, presently I am not able to edit this parameter and set it to a value that gives me better results.

 

As it is right now, the aircraft tends to roll right along a considerable range of speeds and power settings, including those of cruise...

[Yob]

I personally dont have a problem with it. check your joystick to see how it is configured.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

This is the reason I have not bought it yet.

 

It put me off flying the dora. Once you know that it should cruise balanced without having to hold the aileron, it is hard not to notice that it is just not set up right. I will wait to buy it till this can be fixed by trimming with the ground adjustable aileron tabs.

 

Does it fly balanced at any speed?

[NeilWillis]

This is the reason I have not bought it yet.

 

It put me off flying the dora. Once you know that it should cruise balanced without having to hold the aileron, it is hard not to notice that it is just not set up right. I will wait to buy it till this can be fixed by trimming with the ground adjustable aileron tabs.

 

Does it fly balanced at any speed?

 

It can!

 

In ...\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\FW-190D9\FM\FMOptions.lua change the entry that reads:

 

aileronTrimTab = 0.0

 

(change it to -0.0150)

 

What the original poster was saying is that this facility is not available yet for the Bf-109, and he is quite right.

 

I would also like to have this.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

Thanks yes I understand. I have the dora trimmed as you suggest. It's pleasure to fly now.

 

I am just saying I won't buy the K4 till I can trim it so it cruises straight level at max continuous power without have to hold the stick constantly. As designed.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

The 109 seems trimmed well to me.

 

Two things to note:

 

1) Yaw affects roll. If you don't have the ball in the middle, don't expect it to fly level.

2) Trim is there to relieve stick forces and prevent pilot fatigue; it's not there for you to fly hands off the controls.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

You can also make your long stick mod like real ones, and you'll have no more problem with holding stick where you want :). You're asking for a trim where unavailable just because you use short sticks. I fly pretty stable in every speed without further notice with my long Warthog mod.

 

S!

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

The aileron trim is too much IMO.

 

Press CTRL-Enter ( or whatever shows your control deflections on a window...) and you'll see, inflight, your stick deflected to the right way too much to counter the torque... It needs to be a lower right trim setting. Unfortunately there is no way to set it from a menu, or ground crew, and now also no way to edit a file and do it ourselves :-(

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Post a track. I don't experience out of trim characteristics.

[fastfreddie]

Did they change the default trim for the Dora because when I looked at for the first time today it was changed to what your recommending here. I don't think the trim in the 109 is bad at all ... nothing like what the Dora had. If anything the lift of the wings is the biggest problem because this bird really wants to climb and you have to push the stick down to keep here level.

[Art-J]

Yes, Dora trim parameter has been officially changed in the last update, amongst many other things.

[flanker0ne]

Hope this changes in the file structure (FMOptions) are a prelude to a complete handling of that (and other) variables through a panel in 3D like the rearm/refuel one.

Fingercrossed :music_whistling:

[Laro]

Anyone noticed this:

local DbOption = require('Options.DbOption')

local Range = DbOption.Range

 

return {

autoRudder = DbOption.new():setValue(false):checkbox(),

assistance = DbOption.new():setValue(100):slider(Range(0, 100)),

aileronTrim = DbOption.new():setValue(0):slider(Range(0, 100)),

}

?

 

Found it in DCS World\Mods\Aircraft\BF-109K-4\Options\optionsDb.LUA

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I believe that unfortunately this section does not allow for any mod to the preset values of the airleron trim tab.

 

Let's wait for the next update. It is clearly over-compensated, and under a wide speed / power range the aircraft presents a marked tedency to roll right...

[NeilWillis]

I am sure it is still a work in progress, but as I understand it, Bf-109 pilots all had to have one leg longer than the other to hold the plane straight and level, and it is definitely a hands-on aircraft, just like the Fw-190. Perhaps you were just expecting it to fly itself as it does in most, if not all less well executed simulations. We've all just become lazy, and expect things to be perfectly trimmed out, when the reality was very different. Just how much aileron input is needed to maintain straight and level flight is questionable however, but I am sure Yo-Yo knows what he is doing.

 

I have a feeling that the aileron isn't set up perfectly yet, time will tell. Was trim adjustable on the ground for the ailerons in the same way that they are for the 190 though? If so, that would definitely be a feature we need for the 109.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Was trim adjustable on the ground for the ailerons in the same way that they are for the 190 though? If so, that would definitely be a feature we need for the 109.

 

 

It was Neil, just like in the 190, and exactly like the rudder trim tab.

 

No aileron input should be required at cruise speeds and power ( 1.35 ATA ). Presently we have to permanently deflect the stick right to fly straight... But, there's another factor... It's also known as you pointed out, at at higher speeds and/or low power settings, left rudder was required ( hence the longest left leg :-) ) and then, it might induce a left roll moment, and require additional right roll trimmimg...

 

Although I do see the ball going left at such higher speeds or slow power regimes, maybe it needed to be a bit more displaced to the left?

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

Did they change the default trim for the Dora because when I looked at for the first time today it was changed to what your recommending here. I don't think the trim in the 109 is bad at all ... nothing like what the Dora had. If anything the lift of the wings is the biggest problem because this bird really wants to climb and you have to push the stick down to keep here level.

 

+1

i dont notice any aileron trim problems at all in the 109.really stable and properly trimmed out for my taste in regards of the ailerons...

[flanker0ne]

Anyone noticed this:

?

 

Found it in DCS World\Mods\Aircraft\BF-109K-4\Options\optionsDb.LUA

 

:D Maybe we will see the appearance of another slide in OPTIONS SPECIAL Bf-109K4 panel in the near future...:thumbup:

[NeilWillis]

I wonder if it might also be useful to pre-set a little more down trim on the elevators too. Was there an adjustable on the ground trim tap for that too?

[Siegfried]

I want share a thing that I think about aileron trim.

 

I have a modified G940 with a long stick and I have it in realistic position between mi legs like real planes. I think that right position of the stick when we flying is for the weight of the pilot's arm. When you rest the weight of right arm, it tend to make force at right side and for this reason the cruise flight trim is there.

 

This effect/issue/feature is not for right placed joystick (like F16 or desktop joysticks).

 

I think that because in all flight simulators, when I go with ball centered I have mi arm in this position more relaxed and natural. But the inmense mayority of flightsimmers have a regular joysticks placed in right side of desktop.

 

In others simulators (BoS, CloD and DCS Dora) is the same position for leveled cruise flight.

 

Had I explain well? Sorry for my english.

 

My 2 cents.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Siegfried

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I want share a thing that I think about aileron trim.

 

...

 

Siegfried,

 

while I understand your idea, the "problem" here is a bit different IMO.

 

If you enable the visualization of control deflections, CTRL-Enter, you will see, as soon as there's dynamic pressure over your control surfaces, that they deflect due to the trim tab settings.

 

Inflight, with your stick neutral, you can see that it is actually displaced a bit towards the right, due to the fact that the aileron trim tabs are set to induce a rolling moment in order to counter the CW-rotating prop effects.

 

This deflection is, IMO, overdone - the trim tabs need to be set at a lower angle.

 

OTOH, I noticed that this 109 K4 is exhibiting very "faint" sideslip at cruise / high speed / low power settings. The 109s are known for requiring continuous left rudder input under such circumstances due to the then too high effect of the asymmetric vertical stab and rudder section in order to counter prop effects at higher power settings, takeoff, etc... Probably if there was more slip, the pilot would have to use more rudder tahn ehat we actually have to use now, causing yaw-induced roll ( to the left ) and then, the aileron trim tab settings would probably be creating the correct amount of compensation ( ? )

[GumidekCZ]

What about this?

DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Bf-109K-4\FM\FMOptions.lua

 

aileronTrimTab = -0.045

elevatorTrimTab = 0.0 - ???

rudderTrimTab = 0.0

 

I tried to put there some numbers small or big no matter what, there was no response to these values.

I only can see the default aileron trim tab if I show control axis RCtrl+Enter. The possition of neutral joystick is moved in order of 0.045 to the right.

Edited January 3, 2015 by GumidekCZ

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

[quote=GumidekCZ;2279635

[/b]I tried to put there some numbers small or big no matter what, there was no response to these values.

.

 

Exactly, that's what I meant in the OP.

 

Apparently these values aren't yet used. Maybe in a future patch only.