The Ultimate Argument Campaign - DLC for Su27

[BeachAV8R]

3 : The AI wingman is crap... he runs out of fuel the moment i get the intercept order. AI code in DCS really needs to be improved.

I noticed that the wingman tends to go in and out of burner when trying to hold position. And sometimes even throwing out speedbrake. I think maybe keeping the lead throttle at 90% or something will give him more buffer to not go into burner. I've found that by doing that I'm having better success at him not running out of gas. That said, there should be absolutely no reason for him to be ejecting due to lack of fuel. They do need to fix this and at the bare minimum have him divert of his own accord when he is too low on fuel.

 

4 : Whats up with the Su27 not reacting to throttle from still to taxi speed? The plane starts rolling when your input is at 80% throttle or something... doesnt make sense. Or is the Su27 ment to react like that?

Well, many heavy jets have what is called "breakaway" thrust where the weight on the wheels actually causes them to be sort flat on the bottom. Even the light Citation I fly (16,500 lbs) has this behavior that you have to add a good bit of thrust to breakaway and start rolling, after that you can reduce throttle pretty much to idle and you'll keep moving. I don't know if the breakaway thrust is accurate for the Su-27, but it is probably something that actually happens to some degree or another.

 

BeachAV8R

[BeachAV8R]

As someone who loves tinkering with the mission editor & creating missions, I can't imagine how long this campaign took to put together!

Indeed. It is very well done with the voiceovers and the briefing maps and just the general flow. I'm impressed and think it is a great value. Can't wait to fly mission #5...

 

BeachAV8R

[eFirehawk]

Is there a video of anyone playing a mission of this DLC, uncut? Nothing on YouTube so far, but I'm interested, especially in the pacing and voice-overs :)

[Chizh]

And the same problem for mission 4. I am giving up for now.

You did not report about accomplish of task via radiomenu F10.

[Chizh]

I have tried the 3rd mission again with the same result.

Please escort Su-25 package to Beslan after strike.

In the next patch we'll remove this obligatory condition and you can RTB without escort Su-25s to Beslan.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Chizh

[hollow]

Mission number 6 completed, best mission yet. Wow, I´m really enjoying this campaign so much, ED please bring us some more :-)

 

regards,

Matej

Edited January 12, 2015 by hollow

[tintifaxl]

WINGMAN -> ENGAGE -> ENGAGE MY TARGET

 

:thumbup:

 

Honestly though..the Su-27 carries so many damn missiles, I just flood my target until he gives up out exhaustion. <g>

 

BeachAV8R

 

I do this all the time - sadly my wingman is shot down even sooner, than I am. I installed the missile mod and will try again.

[audax]

Please escort Su-25 package to Beslan after strike.

In the next patch we'll remove this obligatory condition and you can RTB without escort Su-25s to Beslan.

That explains why it worked the third time I did where I was a bit bored and flew and in a tight formation with the Su-25 while they were landing!

 

You did not report about accomplish of task via radiomenu F10.

Indeed, I completely overlooked it since I was so occupied with bombing stuff :D

I'd recommend that the message is displayed a bit longer for slow people like me…

 

Thanks for taking a look!

[SuperSix2]

Yup I had reported a problem earlier with Mission 3 about not being able to complete it due to controller not issuing the RTB order, however, after flying again and sticking with them just like beach had said stay with them and when they turn final you get the order to RTB! I say leave it in and don't get rid of just have that int he briefing or something if it isn't.

[rrohde]

 

I'd recommend that the message is displayed a bit longer for slow people like me…

 

 

This brings up a question -- how can we recall these on-screen messages if we've missed them? Surely there's a simple key-press to cycle through all of these messages again, right? :)

[ShuRugal]

Ultimate Argument.

 

Saw the new campaign a few days ago and figured I'd have a whirl at it. So far, my results have been less than stellar, mainly due to piss-poor performance from my missiles against AI aircraft.

 

So far, I have run through the first mission five times, completing it only once. In the first four iterations, I expended all of my missiles, and only managed to kill a total of two Frogs. I stumbled across Scats missile mod and used it on the last flight, and was able do down three frogs and damage one badly enough for him to RTB... but again the majority of my missiles went for the decoys instead of their intended targets, even when they were launched from favourable aspects well inside the NEZ.

 

In addition, my wingman has also managed to get shot down several times, by SU-25s. What gives here? there is no way an AI frog should ever take down an AI fighter. For some reason, the frogfoot missiles hit my wingman, but his don't hit the frog. Why does the flanker not have the magic immunity that flankers seem to have?

 

Also, on an amusing note, a pair of flankers at the end got thoroughly mixed up landing and kept scaring each other out of approach. I have seen this occur many times in the past, is this ever going to be fixed?

 

tacview attached.

[cichlidfan]

Other discussions here

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=137401

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=137104

[Purg]

Good to see a 3rd party campaign. Don't fly the SU-27 but bought it to encourage others to do the same. Also good to see that module manager detected my purchase and opted to install. Nice work ED.

[Dr_Arrow]

Hmm..I just finished mission #3 - but

I did see a flight that was having trouble landing (the SEAD Su-24 flight?) because they were in formation. Once the Su-25s turned final (they hadn't actually landed) I was released to RTB and got a mission pass on rollout...

 

 

The AI definitely needs some work...(not in the campaign, just overall)

 

BeachAV8R

 

AI formation landing problems is a long standing bug, which has been reported but not solved (it's been already a year - I've sent also a ticket with tracks), I hope that DLC campaigns will bring some pressure on resolving this, because it can seriously influence SP gameplay and does not look good if half of your assets crash during landings.

[Belgeode]

AI formation landing problems is a long standing bug, which has been reported but not solved (it's been already a year - I've sent also a ticket with tracks), I hope that DLC campaigns will bring some pressure on resolving this, because it can seriously influence SP gameplay and does not look good if half of your assets crash during landings.

 

I have noticed this myself when making missions. I did try something that I am not 100% works but so far seems to be ok. I set the AI flights to formation TRAIL at the waypoint just before landing, and they seem to give each other enough space and time to come down. At the very least, one lands first, and the other guy(s) go around and land after.

 

They seem to run into the problem if they stay in Echelon right.

 

That also brings to mind another question I have wondered. Why aren't there more formation options for all the different planes?? Even as a player my choices on how to spread my wing are limited.

[upupandaway]

Well, many heavy jets have what is called "breakaway" thrust where the weight on the wheels actually causes them to be sort flat on the bottom. Even the light Citation I fly (16,500 lbs) has this behavior that you have to add a good bit of thrust to breakaway and start rolling, after that you can reduce throttle pretty much to idle and you'll keep moving. I don't know if the breakaway thrust is accurate for the Su-27, but it is probably something that actually happens to some degree or another.

 

BeachAV8R

 

Also the Su-27 exhaust nozzle suddenly closes around 80%, giving it quite a kick. I think it's a combination of both.

 

What you describe seems to be very noticeable in the A-10C...

Edited January 13, 2015 by upupandaway

[FlippY1337]

hmm.. got a question. I bought the game an hour ago and still cant find it in the module manager so that i cant download it :(

[upupandaway]

It´s in the main menu when you start DCS ;)

 

Install DCS World first, run it and then install your modules via the module manager.

[FlippY1337]

I tried that already but i cant find the campaign in the module manager :noexpression:

[NineLine]

I tried that already but i cant find the campaign in the module manager :noexpression:

 

Did you login to the module manager?

[FlippY1337]

Did you login to the module manager?

Yes sir

[Mainstay]

Wingman really needs alot of work. Im kinda sad the AI wingman keeps getting shot down by an Su25 and he is not able to down a single plane.

 

My findings considering the AI

- Runs out of fuel unless you tell him to close formation early on.

- Cant kill a dead horse with a nuke.

- Keeps getting shot down without doing anything himself even if you tell him to engage your target or freely engage bandits.

- AI wingman ignores the SAM threat everyday all day.. BOOM dead again..

 

So far im not impressed with this campaign when it comes to AI coding.

The Su25's hunting Su27's really?

 

Dont get me wrong i really like the mission (cant say missions because im stuck on mission 1 for 2 days now since i cant accept such stupidity from my donkey idiot flying next to me).

But i think im gonna park the campaign until the AI code has been reworked because atm its just not fun to play.

[tintifaxl]

Such reactions (and subsequent reduced sales for the add on campaigns) might be an incentive for ED to improve the AI. Which of course is a mighty task.

[NineLine]

Such reactions (and subsequent reduced sales for the add on campaigns) might be an incentive for ED to improve the AI. Which of course is a mighty task.

 

I am sure they are aware of AI short comings, but it wont be a couple simple fixes I am sure, more of a massive upgrade, but they have their hands full right now :)

[BFBunny]

This is good. Nice to have some good quality single player experiences.