VKB Gladiator WWII joystick

[Neurowork]

Well that sound like a great plan but

 

I don't have access to any laser cutting and bending machines. I live in Paris, France and having something custom cut in my area costs a kidney. I would have so many ideas if only I had access to such facilities.

The second problem is, if you take a look at my setup (attached), it was nice. 13 degrees tilted forward. I wish I could just replace the gimbals. I need to replicate that base and hide the electronics somewhere. I wonder why the Gladiator PCB take so much room. The PCB in the TM stick is tiny. Probably cost related I guess.

 

VKB would probably make a lot of money if they managed to provide a plug and play gimbal replacement for Warthog stick owners.

[Sokol1_br]

Or, use the Gunfighter concept.

 

Fit the VKB gimbal in Warthog base - if is possible of course - and use a separate box for VKB electronics (Black Box in Gunfighter), make a cable between base and box, e.g. with DB connectors, will be need a 11 wire cable: 3 wires for each axis connectors and 5 wire for grip connector.

 

B plan - leave as is and when Gunfighter come, sold the Gladiator PRO and buy a Gunfighter. :)

 

VKB would probably make a lot of money if they managed to provide a plug and play gimbal replacement for Warthog stick owners.

 

Problem: Warthog controller don't accept a different sensor, is done for Melexis 3D sensor as well the gimbal design, VKB sensors don't work with Warthog controller and VKB "Next Gen gimbal" work with separated axis.

And in some way done this they were competing against themselves, encouraging the purchase of Warthog's instead VKB joysticks. :)

 

And, VKB is "burned" with DIY market, what they try selling standalone Njoy32 and other accessories.

Because (Russian) buyers generally don't read instructions, just plug things and goes to forums complain that "VKB controller don't work". :P

Edited August 30, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Neurowork]

Thanks for your advice.

 

The good thing is, Edward told me I have 14 days to return it just in case. Thank you EU customer protection laws :). I'd only loose the shipping money.

But anyways, from what I have read, the gimbals are far superior to the Warthog's. It will probably be love at first sight, can't wait to try them.

 

Well I'm sure I can figure something out.

 

I want to make something 100% reversible because I will probably just end-up buying a Gunfighter at the end of the day and selling the Glad.

 

Actually as I mentioned, I can cut a pocket in the underside, right under stick mount, cut a hole that goes right through for the cables and hide the PCB in there. I'd need to make longer cables or extending them somehow.

 

From the pictures, the Gunfighter will only have somekind of 6 pins DIN connector. I guess there's electronics in the base to serialize the values of both axies and button presses.

 

Or, use the Gunfighter concept.

Problem: Warthog controller don't accept a different sensor, is done for Melexis 3D sensor as well the gimbal design, VKB sensors don't work with Warthog controller and VKB "Next Gen gimbal" work with separated axis.

And in some way done this they were competing against themselves, encouraging the purchase of Warthog's instead VKB joysticks. :)

 

I wonder how the guys from RealSimulator managed to pull it off with their FFSB R3 base. They can connect their sensors which have separate axies if I'm not mistaken with the warthog pcb.

Anyways, the gunfighter with the warthog grip is an even better solution.

[Bourrinopathe]

Have you ever seen that cam gimbal in action? The Gladiator Pro one?

 

Well, someone apparently fell in love and made a video:

 

I'm lucky I already have that kind of wonder in my Black Mamba so I can stay decently hydrated. :music_whistling:

[Sokol1_br]

CAM is a "complicated" thing to use in joystick gimbal:

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=646

 

So why use CAM?

 

To have a soft center without "clunk" like in CH or Cougar sticks and don't need make more force to move the joystick away from center position like in Saitek's and Warthog and don't have mixed X,Y axis forces. :joystick:

 

BTW - A possible aluminum "case MOD" for Gladiator PRO:

 

http://preview.tinyurl.com/z6un6j5

 

Remember that "mod" products invalidate their warranty. ;)

Edited September 6, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Neurowork]

Yeah that gimbal system is truly amazing. The default springs are way too weak though for my taste, especially when coming from a Warthog but you get plenty with different strength to choose from.

 

I did some testing with the Glad Pro but ended up returning it for a couple reasons:

 

• I love (understatement here) the gimbals but I really don't like the base. While the gimbal itself feels premium, the rest of the base feels too platicky for my taste.
  

 

• while testing the Glad Pro, I receive the Nyogel 767a damping grease and applied it to the warthog gimbals. The result is night and day. Everything's really smooth .. but you still have the center position that is sooo annoying. I guess that the rest being smooth will make me wait for the Gunfighter.
  
• Got the warthog adapter but it requires additional PCB to work (most likely to convert the shift registers to the 3 wire protocol the Glad seems to be using) and software update which is not ready yet. I can't live without my F-16/A-10 stick so I'd have to wait anyways before being able to fully take advantage of it.
  

Lesson learned about Impulse purchases.

 

 

 

Well... I ended up ordering the MFG Crosswind in graphite instead :)

 

Happy flying :joystick:

[98abaile]

CAM is a "complicated" thing to use in joystick gimbal:

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=646

 

I've being trying to get my head around this problem for ages. Now I just need to learn Russian. lol

[Sokol1_br]

I've being trying to get my head around this problem for ages. Now I just need to learn Russian. lol

 

Seems the basic answer is in "Involute of a Circle":

 

 

The CAM profile use the Involute Circle of a circle with same radius of roller bearing.

 

Since the joystick gimbal move in opposite directions relative to center, CAM use the Involute initial segment (more circular) for the side near the CAM pivot and the end segment (more straight) of the Involute for the side opposite to pivot.

 

In a double CAM system (2 lever) you can consider only the opposite side of Involute.

 

This is the basic idea. Increase force "feel", clear, soft or hard center, alter this.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Sokol1_br]

I did some testing with the Glad Pro but ended up returning it for a couple reasons:

 

Neurowork,

 

Good feedback. :thumbup:

 

You feel is the typical relative to X-55 when this came: "Is not a Warthog!". :lol:

 

This 3 to 5 wires adapter illustrate VKB strange options.

 

They know that are a big number of Warthog users, make a adapter for their grip... but to save some 0,0$ in wires change the interface between grip and USB controller. And then need make a adapter board, that need a new firmware and they are not able to supply in time... :huh:

 

With 50k+Warthog around they will make a good money if just make a base with CAM, extension as upgrade for this stick.

[hansangb]

-snippage--

 

With 50k+Warthog around they will make a good money if just make a base with CAM, extension as upgrade for this stick.

 

Day 0 purchase. I don't even mind the current gimbal, as I have no problems with it. But every time I see pictures of it, I drool. I just don't want to have to remap every button switch etc. So changing out the PCB is too much work (at the risk of sounding lazy).

 

I love my TM warthog. But the innards could use some serious upgrade.

[Neurowork]

Neurowork,

They know that are a big number of Warthog users, make a adapter for their grip... but to save some 0,0$ in wires change the interface between grip and USB controller. And then need make a adapter board, that need a new firmware and they are not able to supply in time... :huh:

 

Well to their defense, Eduard from VKB Europe was trying to be helpful. The Warthog adapter is actually not listed yet but he had a couple Warthog adapters in stock (same as black mamba) and agreed to sell it to me. A couple of days later he came back saying that it needed that adapter board and software update.

 

Neurowork,

With 50k+Warthog around they will make a good money if just make a base with CAM, extension as upgrade for this stick.

 

Well my guess is that the Gunfighter is the answer, if only they could give the option to purchase without the KG-12 plastic grip.

[MPK]

Got the warthog adapter but it requires additional PCB to work (most likely to convert the shift registers to the 3 wire protocol the Glad seems to be using) and software update which is not ready yet. I can't live without my F-16/A-10 stick so I'd have to wait anyways before being able to fully take advantage of it.

 

Well this is hugely disappointing. I was under the impression that it would be plug and play.

[Sokol1_br]

Well this is hugely disappointing. I was under the impression that it would be plug and play.

 

Is not exactly "PnP". Is need open the Warthog grip and install the connection adapter (the mechanical piece) inside:

 

 

 

The PCB adapter is other question - due the "Eternal Quest for Lower Manufactures Cost" - they save 2 wires - and now need a extra :PPCB between the controller (Njoy32) and grip plug, similar to this for KG-12 in Mamba (what in this work in inverted way, convert 3 to 5 wires).

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[muamshai]

I didn't read the whole 17 pages but I gotta ask:

 

The stick on the very first post of this thread. Did it go back to the drawing board?

[Dudikoff]

With 50k+Warthog around they will make a good money if just make a base with CAM, extension as upgrade for this stick.

 

Ideally they would make it in a way that the gimbal's PCB can interface with the Warthog PCB so that the TM Target can be supported (e.g. as FSSB R3 does IIRC).

Edited September 9, 2016 by Dudikoff

[Bourrinopathe]

The stick on the very first post of this thread. Did it go back to the drawing board?

 

Yes. But, afaik, there's no specific news about it.

[SVgamer72]

Is not exactly "PnP". Is need open the Warthog grip and install the connection adapter (the mechanical piece) inside:

 

 

 

The PCB adapter is other question - due the "Eternal Quest for Lower Manufactures Cost" - they save 2 wires - and now need a extra :PPCB between the controller (Njoy32) and grip plug, similar to this for KG-12 in Mamba (what in this work in inverted way, convert 3 to 5 wires).

 

 

What is the extra PCB? Can it be ordered online?

[Sokol1_br]

AFAIK - This PCB for convert Warthog 5 pins connector in Gladiator base 3 pins connector will came with Warthog and Cobra M5 grips adapter kit.

 

But both was not produced yet. Wait "Two months, be sure™". :)

Edited September 9, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Neurowork]

I was told that the boards are already produced and are on their way to the distributors.

One key missing part is the software update that is required to being able to map the buttons on the warthogs stick.

That's not ready yet and I was not given an ETA.

Once everything's ready, it'll be available at the distributors online shop.

 

Happy flying :joystick:

[Sokol1_br]

VKB Gunfighter "leaked news" - or why they are delayed "Two weeks, be sure"™. :)

 

"Gunfighter went to completion at that time (early 2016). The plan was to use general mechanics with Gladiator Pro, but eventually abandoned and became developed a Gunfighter mechanism for loading."

 

= New gimbal. I guess, consequence of this "incident".

Edited September 13, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Sokol1_br]

"We received a request to develop a joystick for use in military simulation. And Gunfighter will use the same base of this military joystick."

 

 

 

For

lover's: ;)

"After Gunfighter announcement is planned make a "twist" KG12 grip for (optional) installation on Gladiator Pro and Gunfighter."

 

This "Twist rudder" will use ball bearings/MaRS, and this option will cost around 20$ more.

[Neurowork]

Damn, this is good news and bad news at the same time. Better quality but longer wait IMHO.

 

Where do you get your news from :)

[Sokol1_br]

IL-2 (.ru) forum

[dburne]

Hurry up and wait lol.

I too am very interested in this Gunfighter...

[Sokol1_br]

"Teasing" the Kosmosimov "two handed" stick concept.

 

 

Looks tank gunner controls, probable the left grip

and maybe the thing pivot in vertical axis, besides X, Y movements, for "6DOF" control.
Edited September 21, 2016 by Sokol1_br