VKB Gladiator WWII joystick

[SVgamer72]

LOL! A reviewer that thinks the lack of twist rudders is a minus... I think it's a plus! :-D

 

Twist rudder vs pedals is like Coke vs Pepsi. Both are great options, but people will always argue over which is better.

[Yo-Yo]

The only thing I wonder: why the WWII era device has no rpm control axis? :)

[Bourrinopathe]

I think the RPM control has been designed in the Gladiator Plus (and Pro Plus) - the one with the attached throttle.

And with the WW2 throttle that should be unveiled [sooner or later].

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Bourrinopathe

[FlightControl]

VKB Gladiator joystick project.

 

 

 

 

More pictures: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14343-vkb-gladiator-joystick-project/#entry227060

 

 

 

Since the target is a "budget" (80-90$) joystick this is not HOTAS, but all in one piece.

 

Is said that the HOTAS format will double the price.

 

This don't pretend compete in "high end" HOTAS market (Warthog, X55...)

 

 

 

Features:

 

 

 

8 axis

 

1 HAT

 

39 buttons - include 5 Encoders*

 

MaRS digital sensor in X,Y, rudder (twist) axis.

 

Potentiometer on other 5 axis (throttle, mixture, flaps...).

 

USB controller Njoy32 - able to handle more than 100 virtual buttons and use virtual axis with mode switch.

 

 

 

* Rotaries with encoder allow "trim on wheels" in IL-2 BoS (dont allow trim on axis).

 

Or can be used to set DI, Course Setter, Bombsight, gunsight... in games like Il-2 CLoD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The grip with 3 buttons and HAT is based on WWII Luftwaffe KG12 grip with some concessions, the pinkie button is located more high/accessible and the B-Knopf button is a HAT switch.

 

With the mode switch on throttle, is possible use more 6 virtual buttons on grip.

 

 

 

 

 

Sokol1

 

If you talk WWII, force feedback is a must.

 

Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 mobile

[Sokol1_br]

If you talk WWII, force feedback is a must.

 

Force Feedback joystick (in grip format) "is history". ;)

[RFC Rudel]

Force Feedback joystick (in grip format) "is history". ;)

 

If we implement some voltage to the hand we can get similar results.......

 

My epileptic seizures provide a similar result but more violent.

 

or using low frequency audio signals provided by the game via audio and ultra low frequency generator in the stick

[Sokol1_br]

You need is this cockpit chair: :D

 

http://tinyurl.com/z2jhc3s

[RFC Rudel]

You need is this cockpit chair: :D

 

http://tinyurl.com/z2jhc3s

 

I can power that one.

 

 

But low frequency is nice option.

[Goblin]

Twist rudder vs pedals is like Coke vs Pepsi. Both are great options, but people will always argue over which is better.

 

You're saying it comes down to taste?

 

Well, I fly with rudderpedals, and I flightsim with rudderpedals... I have yet to come across an aircraft with a twist rudder stick. ;)

 

What I meant by my first post, is that you can't pull points, in a review, for realism. Sure, if this was aimed for casual gamers... But it isn't. Not the pro, anyway.

[98abaile]

Force Feedback joystick (in grip format) "is history". ;)

I can't see how a design like the sidewinder 2 would violate this patent.

[Sporg]

Force Feedback joystick (in grip format) "is history". ;)

I can't see how a design like the sidewinder 2 would violate this patent.

I agree.

 

What is described in the patents are separate vibration devices, consisting of some motor with a moving mass.

Not, like in the Sidewinder, motors putting force in a stick.

 

Weird that Microsoft settled on this one.

Unless of course they got some other advantage.

[jellis00]

How are the various buttons assigned simulator commands? Does the Gladiator come with some keyboard assignment software?

[Sokol1_br]

Assign the buttons in game controls: select the command, press the button, etc.

 

For popular flight games like Warthunder, IL-2 BoS... will come pre-setups.

 

VKB don't use keyboard software running in (Windows) background like other joysticks, but store configurations in controller EEPROM.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Bourrinopathe]

You can also use the configuration software (VKB Device Config) to assign keyboard inputs to any button (ex: button 1 = Ctrl + Shift + B).

[Beeroshima]

Assign the buttons in game controls: select the command, press the button, etc.

 

For popular flight games like Warthunder, IL-2 BoS... will come pre-setups.

 

VKB don't use keyboard software running in (Windows) background like other joysticks, but store configurations in controller EEPROM.

Like the X55? Worst experience ever with that system. I actually liked the stick, but had mountains of software issues.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Sokol1_br]

The difference is:

 

X-55 use a Windows software (MS Framework dependent) running in games background to make that "press joy button to press keys", like Tm or CH software do.

 

VKB only use a Windows software (VKB Device Config) to change the configurations and save then for hardware memory, but don't need a software (MS framework dependent or not) running simultaneous with games (like Saitek, Tm, CH need). Think that old Tm F16FLCS/F22PRO HOTAS work in this way.

 

This Device Config tool is powerful, can do most of "cheaters" that other joystick software do, but actually lack in documentation.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Sokol1_br]

Additional information about Gladiator (non PRO) - "translated" from Russian using GT:

 

 

EDIT - Official English version posted in VKB forum: http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2282

 

Since the idea of ​​a Gladiator to its appearance in the form of finished product took two years.

 

 

We did not make Gladiator development a secret and share information about the creation of this joystick with virtual pilots community.

We are very pleased that our development has caused quite a lot of interest on your part.

In this topic we will briefly explain what in the end we have got and what a Gladiator.

The format "question and answer" most suited for the occasion.

So, let's begin.

 

Question: Why was chosen design in the style of aircraft of World War II?

 

Answer: There are several reasons.

Firstly, the WKB team prefers simulators with piston engines aircraft's (warbirds) and early jet's.

WWII - a part of our history that should not be forgotten.

Second, the market is not saturated with joysticks with this design.

There is only Saitek Aviator and there is fierce competition (in "jet's/spaceships" joystick design).

But developing this model, we tried to put a functional joystick, sufficient not only for the simulation of WWII.

Fortunately, the capabilities of our controllers permit.

  

Question: What is the mechanism of loading (gimbal) located inside the joystick Gladiator?

 

Answer: WKB was one of the main developers of Defender Cobra M5 joystick.

For 5 years of production and operation of this joystick, we studied the strengths and weaknesses of its design.

We made a number of improvements and improved design of the loading mechanism (gimbal).

 

 

Replaced plastic material. Now loading mechanism (gimbal) is made of glass fiber reinforced plastic, which is sturdier.

On the gimbal axes are made grooves for the lubrication of this axes.

Grease is not squeezed out of the holes and running uniformly over its entire surface.

We used a thick damping grease, which makes the course knob "viscous".

We also improved the mold for casting, trying to fit as much as possible the details of each other.

It was finalized finalized twist (rudder) mechanism.

Gladiator twist is reinforced and has a stiffer spring.

This video demonstrates the difference between the behavior of the Gladiator loading mechanism (gimbal) from its predecessor - Defender Cobra M5.

 

 

Question: Why the central position of Gladiator handle Gladiator has an area of ​​very soft run with virtually no resistance.

This is backlash?

 

Answer: No, we did it on purpose.

Analysis of virtual pilots preferences showed that many prefer sticks with a very soft behavior at the center.

The strong "step" (of other joysticks), which holds the handle in the center prevents accurate aiming.

To deflect the grip a very small angle it is necessary to make an effort to overcome this "step". In one way this makes feel the center "step" on joystick axis, but on other way prevents precise control in approximately central position.

What is important is balance. And we have tried to implement it. To give priority to the soft behavior handle in the middle, rather than clear and hard to return to the center.

Appointment damper grease - remove the "emptiness" of the movement handle in a near-central zone.

We understand pilots like of such behavior, whose plane hangs "on the handle."

And for the pilots with little experience this can cause problems.

In this case, we recommend to increase the pitch and roll axes dead zone using WIZZO utility.

In the (default) factory settings, it has a very small value.

Again, we did it on purpose to give the fullest possible axes control zone roll and pitch.

 

Question: Why in joystick factory (default) settings is a fairly large value of the dead zone put the on twist axis (rudder)?

 

Answer: This is done to parry "parasitic" twist deviations when the pilot operates only on the roll pitch axes. You can change "twist" deadzone by using WIZZO program.

 

Question: Why the joystick grip in the center position is rotated by a small angle counterclockwise.

Answer: This is related to ergonomics. It is much easier to keep the grip when she has a little twist counterclockwise. In many real-world aircraft the grip set just so, with a little twist.

 

Question: Is it possible to connected control additional devices to Gladiator?

 

Answer: Yes.

 

 

In the panel in front of Gladiator is located two connectors.

In "Pedals" connector can be connected the rudder pedals VKB T-Rudder and WKB-Mk18-Mk21 pedals.

"SYS" connector is for connecting control devices that still in development - throttle and additional multifunction panel.

 

Q: What options are available to upgrade Gladiator?

 

Answer: Gladiator laid enough rich features upgrade.

You can replace the joystick gimbal with all metal (CAM) centering mechanism, making your joystick a Gladiator Pro.

 

 

Gladiator PRO all metal centering mechanism (gimbal) has a detachable rod for grip.

With a adapter you can install the grip of Defender Cobra M5 or Trustmaster Warthog (Cougar) joysticks.

WKB is also developing a new multi-function grip for lovers of modern combat aircraft or space simulators.

Gladiator controller allows you to connect additional axes and buttons. Controller PCB is marked with the appropriate space for additional sealing connectors.

 

Q: What controller is installed in the Gladiator joystick?

Answer: Gladiator (controller) is based on platform of our own development - NJoy32.

 

 

It is a powerful 32-bit ARM-controller. The controller operates at the USB-protocol. The main principle of the controller - software and driver independence.

This means that for normal operation of the device does not need install third-party drivers and software.

The controller has the ability to upgrade firmware via USB.

In Gladiator KG12 grip is set another microcontroller.

It collects information of twist axis (rudder) and button pressing on grip and sends it to the main controller via a digital protocol using a three-wire interface.

 

Question: What sensors are used?

A: Roll and pitch axis use separate non-contact magnetic sensors MaRS (Magneto Resistive Sensor).

 

 

The concept of "one sensor for each axis" helps to eliminate parasitic influence of one axis to the other in case of wear joystick boot mechanism.

Total operating MaRS sensors showed his best side. High accuracy, linearity and stability - a "calling card" of MaRS probes.

MaRS sensor is also mounted on joystick twist axis (rudder).

 

 

In 2004 WKB became one of the first to use MARS sensors in pedals and joysticks.

Currently, we are the first to use high-precision non-contact sensor for the twist (rudder) in our first mass joystick.

Rudder axis just is important for aircraft operation as well was pitch and roll axes!

In addition to high-precision, non-contact twist (rudder) design greatly extends the life of the joystick.

 

Q: What is WIZZO?

 

Answer: WIZZO - Is a utility designed to configure the joystick controller.

 

 

WIZZO has a simple and intuitive interface and currently implements the following functionality: calibration of the joystick axes, setting "dead zones", the reverse axes.

The utility has the ability to load and save profiles of axes and joystick buttons.

Also, using this tool, you can enter the joystick in firmware update mode.

WIZZO program is not necessary for the operation of the joystick.

She only writes data to controller memory.

Suffice it once to write the data and then never run the program WIZZO.

Due saved settings in its own non-volatile memory, the Gladiator will work the same on different computers and operating systems and does not require re-configuration and calibration.

WIZZO is available for download here: http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/

 

Question: Why WIZZO?

 

The answer: a Weapon Systems Officer ( "WSO", in English is pronounced "wizzo").

As called the weapons operator in airplanes and helicopters.

And also it's a great name for joystick configuration utility :-)

 

Question: Is it possible configure Gladiator via VKB Device Config program?

Answer: Yes, you can.

 

 

A most complete joystick customization joystick is done with this program.

But VKB Device Config utility requires knowledge for working with her.

We recommend the use of this utility only for advanced users who are familiar with other products WKB.

Profiles configured in VKB Device Config program can be used in WIZZO.

In the near future we will prepare profiles that implement different functions for buttons and joystick axes.

It will be enough to select the appropriate profile and upload it to the controller Gladiator.

We started to develop the tool WIZZO PRO, which later will replaced VKB Device Config.

 

Q: Do I need calibrate the joystick in the Windows Control Panel?

Answer: Absolutely not!

 

Text in the balloon "For what?"

 

This joystick has its own calibration and produces ready-calibrated data to the operating system.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Bourrinopathe]

Very interesting! Thanks Sokol!

 

[ here's the original thread for that Q&A (russian) - some additional info might appear in the discussion ]

 

Some design choices are really interesting (floating/high precision center zone, reduced yaw center sensitivity to avoid involuntary rudder input, viscous grease, modularity, world-first contactless twist rudder, …).

I'm tempted to say: "typical VKB" :music_whistling:

 

I'd better start getting familiar with some WWII birds. Fast. :)

 

And if I understood correctly, there's a good chance I can fit my spare Black Mamba Mk2 gimbal in a Gladiator base (loosing the twist rudder, but allowing a different grip).

Edited July 16, 2016 by Bourrinopathe

[Sokol1_br]

Yes, this design choices is clear oriented to WWII warbirds, wheres the most important thing (IMO) is help put "gunsight piper over the bandit", for what this gimbal seems sufficient for me.

 

The - more expensive - progressive CAM gimbal is more suitable for people in the "quest for feel simulator". :)

 

And is nice see that will offer the CAM gimbal as upgrade for Gladiator.

 

It's a "new joystick era". :lol:

Edited July 16, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[dburne]

Yes, this design choices is clear oriented to WWII warbirds, wheres the most important thing (IMO) is help put "gunsight piper over the bandit", for what this gimbal seems sufficient for me.

 

I thought that was to be the Gunfighter? So what will be the difference between the two and why offer both? Will this one phase out when the Gunfighter is released?

 

Maybe it is me, I just can't seem to keep up with what VKB is doing. Introduce a stick, have pre-orders, fill the orders then that one is closed, on to something else next....

 

Sigh, I guess I am just used to sticks that get introduced, have a longevity of a few years before the next model is introduced, etc.

I have had some interest in the Gunfighter with the extension, but the more I read I think the more confused I get.

 

It may be a "new joystick era" but it is doing a good job of confusing my simple mind.

[WindyTX]

I have this Joystick for travel as I am away a lot. Its great, a bit of reprogramming to get enough buttons for DCS but having used it on this trip I was very pleased.

 

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[Sokol1_br]

Maybe it is me, I just can't seem to keep up with what VKB is doing. Introduce a stick, have pre-orders, fill the orders then that one is closed, on to something else next....

 

This is how was in the past - with Mambas models and their limited production - now with Gladiator/Gladiator PRO and latter (~Q4 2017) the Gunfighter, they are working in set a regular production, what was already done for Gladiator.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[dburne]

This is how was in the past - with Mambas models and they limited production - now with Gladiator/Gladiator PRO and latter (~Q4 2017) the Gunfighter, they are working in set a regular production, what was already done for Gladiator.

 

Q4 2017? I was thinking it was later this year? If that is case I won't worry about keeping an eye out for it.

[Sokol1_br]

Ooops! Yes, Q4 2016. They say September, but as past "history" show, these predictions always failed. :D

[dburne]

Ooops! Yes, Q4 2016. They say September, but as past "history" show, these predictions always failed. :D

 

Ok thanks, I will keep an eye out and see what happens.