longer launch range for Maverick?

[fighter1976]

Hi! I was wondering, it is any possibility to launch a Maverick from a range bigger than 4 miles(or km, according to HUD information)? If it's any AA system higher than a Tunguska or Gepard or MANPADS (let's say an OSA) one's chances to close in are very low...When select the target with the TGP and slave the Maverick guidance system to the target, all is needed is to lock onto the target.This happens only at 4 km (or miles, can't say for sure). In real life I know the Maverick has a much longer range.

Thanks!

[Blooze]

With 65Ds after you have slaved the Mav on the target hit china hat forward (V key) to increase zoom and you will get a lock sooner.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Blooze

[Wayc00lio]

What altitude are you engaging at? You can fire considerably further at higher altitude, low level, you need to get in fairly close.

[fighter1976]

low...3000 feet ...It's a ground attack aircraft

[cichlidfan]

low...3000 feet ...It's a ground attack aircraft

 

"Ground attack' refers to targets on the ground, not the aircraft. :P

[PFunk1606688187]

There's no reason you can't fire a Maverick from ~7nm with an IR Maverick, altitude be damned.

 

If the threat circle for a given SAM system is 5nm you can hit it at any altitude from which you can get the seeker to see it, and launch it, and still have time to make a smart about face.

 

And as far as altitude goes, they call it Warthog for a reason. Those engines were built for low level and against sophisticated SAM networks terrain masking is an asset no pilot at Angels 16 can claim much use for.

 

In actuality though many issues with Maverick effectiveness in DCS come from the fact that its a rather crude simulation of the overall system. The seeker head should lock on based on contrast, regardless of actual slant range. A blob is a blob. In DCS the Maverick only locks when its inside a given range which is, given the nature of the seeker head, simply incorrect. This was probably done as a very very simplistic way of facing the fact that DCS doesn't model any of the environmental conditions that dynamically effect Maverick seeker head lock on reliability.

 

Anyways, IR Mavs in DCS can reach out just fine. No issues with flying nap of the earth and popping to get a low level Maverick attack off. You shouldn't fear anything from an SA-19 through an SA-8. You guys should get down off your perches. The air is nice and thick down in the mud and the tactics are far more lively.

Edited February 9, 2015 by P*Funk

[Nevyn]

Force Correlate can be used for longer ranges, not sure how helpful that would be, but take a look anyway.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTq2gI3ENSY, or

[Wayc00lio]

low...3000 feet ...It's a ground attack aircraft

 

LOL. 3000 ft is not particularly low. Is that AGL or Barometric? My point being that at 12,000 (for example) you should be able to lock and fire at around 7km. Lower than that mans you will need to be nearer to shoot. The missile motor will only fire for a minimum time period, and then the missile becomes ballistic (effects of gravity etc).

 

Understandably you'll want to be fairly low against some SAMs which will mean getting close - or find a nice hill to hide behind, get a lock on the TGP, duck behind the hill, come round again, slave MAV to TGP and shoot, then get behind the hill. You can do this from quite a distance depending on the terrain!

[PFunk1606688187]

Whats all this metric nonsense? You guys do realize that the slant range figures on your HUDs are in nautical miles right? 7km is just over 3.5 nm. At that slant range you're already defensive.

[DrDetroit]

There's no reason you can't fire a Maverick from ~7nm with an IR Maverick, altitude be damned.

 

Anyways, IR Mavs in DCS can reach out just fine. No issues with flying nap of the earth and popping to get a low level Maverick attack off. You shouldn't fear anything from an SA-19 through an SA-8. You guys should get down off your perches. The air is nice and thick down in the mud and the tactics are far more lively.

 

 

So how do I get the MAV to lock quickly in a low level attack? I'm having issue with this part.

 

I slew the MAV to the targeting pod SPI I set to the target (sam), then I turn my attention to the MAV MFD. When I start slewing the MAV to the SAM target it doesn't want to lock right away.

 

The MAVs already slewed to the SPI, but will not lock until I SOI the MAV MFD and move it around the SPI manually until I get a lock. In other words, I can't launch until I take over the MAV manually and slew it around for a bit, even though it's already looking at the target via the targeting pod. Hope my explanation makes sense.

 

Seems like I'm missing a step, shouldn't the MAV be ready to fire once I have it pointed at the SPI via the targeting pod?

 

Thanks and good day!

 

DrDetroit

[Fakum]

I use force correlate and it has been successful as long as I dont exceed 13nm

[Yurgon]

So how do I get the MAV to lock quickly in a low level attack? I'm having issue with this part. [...]

 

This is typically done by first finding the target with the TGP, and making sure that TGP is SPI generator (lower left corner of the HUD gives the current SPI generator; it's STPT by default and will change to TGP once you set the TGP as SPI).

 

With that done, you can slave all to SPI and the Mav should now look at your target. Be aware that the Maverick has a seeker of its own, it doesn't "look through the TGP". That's why it'll have to lock on the target itself (unless you use Force Correlate, but that only works the the 65H IIRC and is not quite the topic here IMO).

 

The easiest way to do that is, with Mav as SOI, to push TMS forward short (several times, if necessary) until it locks. That avoids slewing the Mav around a target it's already looking at. As said before, zooming in makes it easier to confirm the Mav has the correct target. I don't know if this will increase the maximum locking range, but it would seem plausible.

[Wayc00lio]

Whats all this metric nonsense? You guys do realize that the slant range figures on your HUDs are in nautical miles right? 7km is just over 3.5 nm. At that slant range you're already defensive.

 

Quite right P*Funk. You are correct.

[Nevyn]

The easiest way to do that is, with Mav as SOI, to push TMS forward short (several times, if necessary) until it locks.

 

Didn't know that could be done, goddamn will I ever learn all I need to learn.

[DrDetroit]

Didn't know that could be done, goddamn will I ever learn all I need to learn.

 

That's why we have these wonderful forums with guy/gals whom know their s**t inside and out. I'd still be figuring out what a SPI is, or SOI without them (soy sauce - what'd you say?).

 

Thanks Yurgon! That's what I was looking for.

 

Good day!

 

DrDetroit

[Yurgon]

Thanks Yurgon! That's what I was looking for.

 

:thumbup:

 

I've flown the Hog since Beta, and I'm still a total noob when it comes to the CDU. Lately I've flown so much A-10C that I'm beginning to develop an understanding of this mighty instrument, but I'm far from having mastered it (and that's just one of the many systems I have only partial knowledge about).

 

There's always more to learn. :smartass:

[SFJackBauer]

Seems like I'm missing a step, shouldn't the MAV be ready to fire once I have it pointed at the SPI via the targeting pod?

 

No. Only looking at something doesnt automatically locks the Mav. It may have an autolock feature if the thing under the crosshairs gets big enough... I don't remember exactly. But you must not wait for it if you want to launch at RMAX - if you have it slaved using the TGP, then you have to make the Mav SOI and spam TMS Up until it is locked. It may helps to zoom the image so you can check if its locking on the thing you want, in case of targets clustered closely together.

 

EDIT - Ah already answered above, didnt noticed.

[GGTharos]

In actuality the in-game weapon is far more effective than the real one. Average slant range for launching an AGM-65D against a vehicle is somewhere between 3-5nm in RL. Longer is possible, but it does indeed depend on the blob ... which has to have certain dimensions, and as the range increases, so do the number of things that can diminish the er, stature of the blob.

 

Additionally, in RL there's a matter of identification, so operators will typically hold fire until they have 7-8 vertical lines of target, at which point it can be identified.

 

In actuality though many issues with Maverick effectiveness in DCS come from the fact that its a rather crude simulation of the overall system. The seeker head should lock on based on contrast, regardless of actual slant range. A blob is a blob. In DCS the Maverick only locks when its inside a given range which is, given the nature of the seeker head, simply incorrect. This was probably done as a very very simplistic way of facing the fact that DCS doesn't model any of the environmental conditions that dynamically effect Maverick seeker head lock on reliability.

[ttaylor0024]

but it does indeed depend on the blob ...

 

Come on blob....

 

 

Come onnnnnn

 

 

 

 

 

DIE BLOB DIE

[fighter1976]

Yeap, tried force correlate and it's working just fine:)

[PFunk1606688187]

This is typically done by first finding the target with the TGP, and making sure that TGP is SPI generator (lower left corner of the HUD gives the current SPI generator; it's STPT by default and will change to TGP once you set the TGP as SPI).

 

Oh you guys and your targeting pods.

 

You can hit anything with enough practice using nothing but a visual land mark and the Maverick seeker head. Generally though its enough to just have a waypoint on the target area and use the seeker slew to find it and lock.

 

So, set steer to target waypoint. Slave SPI to steer. Ingress. Maverick as SOI. Slave all to SPI. Slew, lock, rifle, GTFO.

 

 

It helps to imagine that before A-10s got Targeting pods in the latter half of the first decade of the 21st century that they'd been employing the Maverick for some decades before with nothing but binoculars, paper maps, and maybe a CDU waypoint that could be extremely unreliable due to INS drift or just bad intel. The threat of flying straight at enemies and becoming a target was the same, so they just learned to be good with the Maverick all by itself. See a target? Roll in and put the wagon wheel where it is via the HUD, space stabilize, then use the seeker to lock.

 

Having a perfectly precise TGP validated SPI is helpful, and easy, but its something that can't always be relied on. Imagine you shift to the Maverick view, see your target start to drive to the right of the screen, are you going to shift the TGP SPI or just slew to lock? If you never ever learned to cope with the seeker head drift from targeting even a stationary target then you're gonna probably mess up, get too close, and find yourself a target.

 

 

The targeting pod is a great tool but a horrible crutch to people who don't get taught by organizations (like an Air Force) who know how to build up people's skills so that they can put multiple tools to work without being weak when one or many of them fail.

 

The only way to build confidence and skill is to work on things in isolation and then put them together. Start with just Mavericks, targets in an open field, and a single general target waypoint in the middle of them. Focus on using the Seeker to lock anything then move onto locking a specific blob you pick out on the seeker. Next move to coordinating which blob you're picking out on the seeker view with what you're seeing outside the pit, and so on. You could build that scenario up ad infinitum based on your own skill and once it becomes part of a multi-tool focused scenario, using the full capability of the aircraft avionics, you can pretty much never run out of new ways to challenge yourself.

 

You'll be surprised how little the TGP is needed if you have the requisite skill which frankly takes very little time to build up. In general those who learned the TGP only method are alarmed and indecisive without that perfect clear TGP image. I was one of those once. Free yourself and burning wreckage* will follow.

 

*non A-10C wreckage is implied in this George Clinton borrowed turn of phrase.

 

@GGTharos

 

Yes I definitely I overstated the differences when the practical reality is much harsher.

Edited February 10, 2015 by P*Funk

[ttaylor0024]

Yeap, tried force correlate and it's working just fine:)

 

Just watch the time of flight on the left of your HUD before launch. Make sure it's under 60 seconds or the mav will self detonate

[GGTharos]

Working on making certain this stops working ASAP. FC is for buildings, and you just flat out should not be able to hit vehicles with it.

 

Yeap, tried force correlate and it's working just fine:)

[ttaylor0024]

Working on making certain this stops working ASAP. FC is for buildings, and you just flat out should not be able to hit vehicles with it.

 

FC simply launches the missile to a certain location on the ground, correct? I use it to launch on SAM sites, however if they move it doesn't work at all.

 

 

He could have been referring to pressing TMS Up to get the IR Mav to try to select the blob and it working.

[PFunk1606688187]

Working on making certain this stops working ASAP. FC is for buildings, and you just flat out should not be able to hit vehicles with it.

 

Yes please. That one is total cheese.

 

EDIT.

FC simply launches the missile to a certain location on the ground, correct?

No, its still targeting a point on a contrast image.

Edited February 10, 2015 by P*Funk