Extremely poor ground steering

[MonsterZero]

Mig-21 rolls off the runway and ends up in the grass, becoming stuck. What am I doing wrong? Plane responds very poorly to any attempts to turn the nose around.

[King_Hrothgar]

The MiG-21 does not have a steerable nose wheel, you must use the differential brakes to steer instead. To do so, apply brakes and rudder in the direction you wish to turn. The more brakes and rudder you use, the faster you will turn.

[WR269]

Mig-21 rolls off the runway and ends up in the grass, becoming stuck. What am I doing wrong? Plane responds very poorly to any attempts to turn the nose around.

 

 

Strongly suggest you either read the manual or the very good guide by Chuck to understand the systems on this bird. The MiGs don't have steerable nose wheels nor differential brakes. You apply thrust, then rudder to steer and apply the brake to force the nose wheel in the direction you require.

[Tirak]

Strongly suggest you either read the manual or the very good guide by Chuck to understand the systems on this bird. The MiGs don't have steerable nose wheels nor differential brakes. You apply thrust, then rudder to steer and apply the brake to force the nose wheel in the direction you require.

 

Um, they do have differential brakes. If you rudder to one side and hit the brakes, it brakes on the side you have the rudder engaged in more, causing the plane to turn. Only at high speed taxiing does the rudder create enough resistance to be used for turning. If you're finding you don't have any breaks, then that is down to the fact your pneumatic systems have been bled dry, likely the result of not returning the gear handle to the neutral position after raising the gear, or excessive use of the brakes.

[Deezle]

Um, they do have differential brakes. If you rudder to one side and hit the brakes, it brakes on the side you have the rudder engaged in more, causing the plane to turn. Only at high speed taxiing does the rudder create enough resistance to be used for turning. If you're finding you don't have any breaks, then that is down to the fact your pneumatic systems have been bled dry, likely the result of not returning the gear handle to the neutral position after raising the gear, or excessive use of the brakes.

I think he means in the traditional sense where you have an independent brake pedal for each side.

 

FWIW I've never once run out of air in the 21, and I've tried, are we sure that's even modeled?

[WR269]

Um, they do have differential brakes. If you rudder to one side and hit the brakes, it brakes on the side you have the rudder engaged in more, causing the plane to turn. Only at high speed taxiing does the rudder create enough resistance to be used for turning. If you're finding you don't have any breaks, then that is down to the fact your pneumatic systems have been bled dry, likely the result of not returning the gear handle to the neutral position after raising the gear, or excessive use of the brakes.

 

 

Ummm no they DON'T have differential brakes. By definition, differential brakes is an individual brake unit on each side. The MiG has a single pneumatic brake unit which engages the main wheels at the same time.

 

The original question was about poor steering, yes they are primitive but with some practice it can be done.

 

It is all in the good manuals and Chuck's excellent guide.

[Deezle]

Ummm no they DON'T have differential brakes. By definition, differential brakes is an individual brake unit on each side. The MiG has a single pneumatic brake unit which engages the main wheels at the same time.

 

The original question was about poor steering, yes they are primitive but with some practice it can be done.

 

It is all in the good manuals and Chuck's excellent guide.

It does have differential brakes, the rudder is definitely not enough to steer the plane at low speeds. The brakes are applied to each side independently when you apply rudder and pull the brake lever. There's even a gauge in the cockpit that will show you how much pressure you're applying to each brake cylinder.

[SNAFU]

The principle of ground handling and pneumatic brake system is acutally the same as in the old Yaks and MiGs of WWII, if I remember that correctly.

 

FWIW I've never once run out of air in the 21, and I've tried, are we sure that's even modeled?

 

 

It is, but takes a little effort to reach the minimum.

[NeilWillis]

A lot of confusion here isn't there!

 

There is differential braking, however it isn't the kind you're used to. To brake a wheel you must deflect the rudder in that direction to actuate a valve directing braking effort only to one of the main undercarriage wheels. You do get some rudder steering during high speed taxiing too, but it is limited, and not at all effective.

 

Remember also to check the nose wheel brake is disengaged using the large lever on the instrument panel (item 97 in the manual). If braking is on, the steering is further limited.

[Hadwell]

The mig-21 has differential braking... as neil says...

 

it's the same kind of braking as in most russian planes, even back to ww2...

1. hold rudder pedal down all the way to the right

2. hit the brake lever

3. right brake activates and you turn right

 

same thing with left...

 

the nose wheel just swivels, like on a shopping cart.

 

I've yet to run out of compressed air either, but I'm sure if you just randomly pumped the brake lever a few minutes it'd run out lol

 

one thing that is kinda messed up... the brakes only seem to have fully on, and fully off, even though i have the brake lever set up as my right toe axis on my pedals, and in game, when i only lightly press it, the lever barely moves (so i know the toe axis works properly), is it supposed to do that? if so... why did they make a mechanical linkage instead of a push button? more reliable?

Edited June 10, 2015 by Hadwell

[Tirak]

Ummm no they DON'T have differential brakes. By definition, differential brakes is an individual brake unit on each side. The MiG has a single pneumatic brake unit which engages the main wheels at the same time.

 

The original question was about poor steering, yes they are primitive but with some practice it can be done.

 

It is all in the good manuals and Chuck's excellent guide.

 

Yes, they do mate. The brake engages only on the wheel in the direction you press the rudder pedals. If your rudder is neutral, it brakes both wheels. If your rudder is to the right, it brakes the right wheel.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

I have the brake lever on the cockpit flight stick bound to an analog stick on a dualshock controller. I can see the needle on the dial move slowly up as I pull the analog stick. I can hold a third braking strength while I taxi which gives me enough braking to steer but not so much I stop. So it does work correctly. Maybe you need to play with the finetuning of the curve to get it working like this.

 

The spitfire in CLOD uses the same braking system. pneumatic brake lever on stick and rudder releases oposite brake turning plane to direction rudder is turned.

[WR269]

Yes, they do mate. The brake engages only on the wheel in the direction you press the rudder pedals. If your rudder is neutral, it brakes both wheels. If your rudder is to the right, it brakes the right wheel.

 

 

Beaut, thanks for this, just learnt something, love the forums. Cheers

[Sokol1_br]

The system in LaGG-3, the valve 3 linked to pedal rudder bar do the trick to brake right or left wheel only.

 

[DieHard]

Mig-21 rolls off the runway and ends up in the grass, becoming stuck. What am I doing wrong? Plane responds very poorly to any attempts to turn the nose around.

 

Unlock nosewheel for taxiing. Lock it for takeoff and landing.

 

Do the Taxiing Training session that comes with the Mig-21bis module. Learn how to steer properly when taxiing. Map your controllers appropriately.

 

Remember to UNLOCK the nosewheel after landing after releasing the drag chute.

 

There is a pressure gage at the base of the stick that shows very nicely the action the rudder pedals work when applied compared to using the brakes only to see what is going on.

 

Read the manual and Chuck's Guide. :)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uSpZROuEd3d0NuYzJfbWFnblU/edit?pli=1

Edited June 12, 2015 by DieHard

[DieHard]

I think he means in the traditional sense where you have an independent brake pedal for each side.

 

FWIW I've never once run out of air in the 21, and I've tried, are we sure that's even modeled?

 

I bled them dry experimenting how they work within the Taxiing Training Session. The lower right panel shows a pressure gage. When the air pressure is at the low yellow limit, there is no longer air available for braking. I was parked on the ramp with the engines running at idle.

 

Is definitely possible!

Edited June 12, 2015 by DieHard

[Sokol1_br]

There is a pressure gage at the base of the stick that shows very nicely the action the rudder pedals work when applied compared to using the brakes only to see what is going on.

 

[gavagai]

I normally don't have any problems with taxiing, but today on a scramble mission I was a little careless and one of my tires slipped off the pavement as I turned a narrow corner. I was surprised to find out that my Fishbed was completely stuck and I had to restart the mission.

 

Is this intended, normal behavior?

[Art-J]

More or less "normal" for all jets in DCS? Yes. The evil super sticky grass loves jets and always waits to embrace its careless victims :D. "Intended"? I guess someone had good intentions about grass grip levels back in the early days of development of this game engine, but in my opinion it's way overdone.

 

At least it doesn't affect WWII birds in the same manner, so I can live with it :D.

[Demon_]

Super sticky grass? It's the same for the MiG-15bis, but not the Sabre.

The F-86F can get out but the landing gear is more fragile.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Demon_

[kingfish]

Your best defense against grass is momentum. If it looks like you're gonna hit the grass and you don't think you can stop, then keep your speed and try to punch through. You can only go so far that way, so don't try to make any cross-country trips, but I've found its usually enough to get back onto the taxiway. The -21 has strong enough gear to survive it, as long as you don't come to a complete stop.