MonsterZero Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Mig-21 rolls off the runway and ends up in the grass, becoming stuck. What am I doing wrong? Plane responds very poorly to any attempts to turn the nose around. NZXT Phantom Red Case Intel Core i5-2500K CPU GeForce GTX 770 GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 ATX Intel Motherboard COUGAR SX850 850W PSU CORSAIR Dominator 24 GB RAM SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-222AB COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Cooler Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
King_Hrothgar Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 The MiG-21 does not have a steerable nose wheel, you must use the differential brakes to steer instead. To do so, apply brakes and rudder in the direction you wish to turn. The more brakes and rudder you use, the faster you will turn.
WR269 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Mig-21 rolls off the runway and ends up in the grass, becoming stuck. What am I doing wrong? Plane responds very poorly to any attempts to turn the nose around. Strongly suggest you either read the manual or the very good guide by Chuck to understand the systems on this bird. The MiGs don't have steerable nose wheels nor differential brakes. You apply thrust, then rudder to steer and apply the brake to force the nose wheel in the direction you require.
Tirak Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Strongly suggest you either read the manual or the very good guide by Chuck to understand the systems on this bird. The MiGs don't have steerable nose wheels nor differential brakes. You apply thrust, then rudder to steer and apply the brake to force the nose wheel in the direction you require. Um, they do have differential brakes. If you rudder to one side and hit the brakes, it brakes on the side you have the rudder engaged in more, causing the plane to turn. Only at high speed taxiing does the rudder create enough resistance to be used for turning. If you're finding you don't have any breaks, then that is down to the fact your pneumatic systems have been bled dry, likely the result of not returning the gear handle to the neutral position after raising the gear, or excessive use of the brakes.
Deezle Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Um, they do have differential brakes. If you rudder to one side and hit the brakes, it brakes on the side you have the rudder engaged in more, causing the plane to turn. Only at high speed taxiing does the rudder create enough resistance to be used for turning. If you're finding you don't have any breaks, then that is down to the fact your pneumatic systems have been bled dry, likely the result of not returning the gear handle to the neutral position after raising the gear, or excessive use of the brakes. I think he means in the traditional sense where you have an independent brake pedal for each side. FWIW I've never once run out of air in the 21, and I've tried, are we sure that's even modeled? Intel 9600K@4.7GHz, Asus Z390, 64GB DDR4, EVGA RTX 3070, Custom Water Cooling, 970 EVO 1TB NVMe 34" UltraWide 3440x1440 Curved Monitor, 21" Touch Screen MFD monitor, TIR5 My Pit Build, Moza AB9 FFB w/WH Grip, TMWH Throttle, MFG Crosswinds W/Combat Pedals/Damper, Custom A-10C panels, Custom Helo Collective, SimShaker with Transducer
WR269 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Um, they do have differential brakes. If you rudder to one side and hit the brakes, it brakes on the side you have the rudder engaged in more, causing the plane to turn. Only at high speed taxiing does the rudder create enough resistance to be used for turning. If you're finding you don't have any breaks, then that is down to the fact your pneumatic systems have been bled dry, likely the result of not returning the gear handle to the neutral position after raising the gear, or excessive use of the brakes. Ummm no they DON'T have differential brakes. By definition, differential brakes is an individual brake unit on each side. The MiG has a single pneumatic brake unit which engages the main wheels at the same time. The original question was about poor steering, yes they are primitive but with some practice it can be done. It is all in the good manuals and Chuck's excellent guide.
Deezle Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Ummm no they DON'T have differential brakes. By definition, differential brakes is an individual brake unit on each side. The MiG has a single pneumatic brake unit which engages the main wheels at the same time. The original question was about poor steering, yes they are primitive but with some practice it can be done. It is all in the good manuals and Chuck's excellent guide. It does have differential brakes, the rudder is definitely not enough to steer the plane at low speeds. The brakes are applied to each side independently when you apply rudder and pull the brake lever. There's even a gauge in the cockpit that will show you how much pressure you're applying to each brake cylinder. Intel 9600K@4.7GHz, Asus Z390, 64GB DDR4, EVGA RTX 3070, Custom Water Cooling, 970 EVO 1TB NVMe 34" UltraWide 3440x1440 Curved Monitor, 21" Touch Screen MFD monitor, TIR5 My Pit Build, Moza AB9 FFB w/WH Grip, TMWH Throttle, MFG Crosswinds W/Combat Pedals/Damper, Custom A-10C panels, Custom Helo Collective, SimShaker with Transducer
SNAFU Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 The principle of ground handling and pneumatic brake system is acutally the same as in the old Yaks and MiGs of WWII, if I remember that correctly. FWIW I've never once run out of air in the 21, and I've tried, are we sure that's even modeled? It is, but takes a little effort to reach the minimum. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Unsere Facebook-Seite
NeilWillis Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 A lot of confusion here isn't there! There is differential braking, however it isn't the kind you're used to. To brake a wheel you must deflect the rudder in that direction to actuate a valve directing braking effort only to one of the main undercarriage wheels. You do get some rudder steering during high speed taxiing too, but it is limited, and not at all effective. Remember also to check the nose wheel brake is disengaged using the large lever on the instrument panel (item 97 in the manual). If braking is on, the steering is further limited.
Hadwell Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) The mig-21 has differential braking... as neil says... it's the same kind of braking as in most russian planes, even back to ww2... 1. hold rudder pedal down all the way to the right 2. hit the brake lever 3. right brake activates and you turn right same thing with left... the nose wheel just swivels, like on a shopping cart. I've yet to run out of compressed air either, but I'm sure if you just randomly pumped the brake lever a few minutes it'd run out lol one thing that is kinda messed up... the brakes only seem to have fully on, and fully off, even though i have the brake lever set up as my right toe axis on my pedals, and in game, when i only lightly press it, the lever barely moves (so i know the toe axis works properly), is it supposed to do that? if so... why did they make a mechanical linkage instead of a push button? more reliable? Edited June 10, 2015 by Hadwell My youtube channel Remember: the fun is in the fight, not the kill, so say NO! to the AIM-120. System specs:ROG Maximus XI Hero, Intel I9 9900K, 32GB 3200MHz ram, EVGA 1080ti FTW3, Samsung 970 EVO 1TB NVME, 27" Samsung SA350 1080p, 27" BenQ GW2765HT 1440p, ASUS ROG PG278Q 1440p G-SYNC Controls: Saitekt rudder pedals,Virpil MongoosT50 throttle, warBRD base, CM2 stick, TrackIR 5+pro clip, WMR VR headset. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Tirak Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Ummm no they DON'T have differential brakes. By definition, differential brakes is an individual brake unit on each side. The MiG has a single pneumatic brake unit which engages the main wheels at the same time. The original question was about poor steering, yes they are primitive but with some practice it can be done. It is all in the good manuals and Chuck's excellent guide. Yes, they do mate. The brake engages only on the wheel in the direction you press the rudder pedals. If your rudder is neutral, it brakes both wheels. If your rudder is to the right, it brakes the right wheel.
Dirty Rotten Flieger Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 I have the brake lever on the cockpit flight stick bound to an analog stick on a dualshock controller. I can see the needle on the dial move slowly up as I pull the analog stick. I can hold a third braking strength while I taxi which gives me enough braking to steer but not so much I stop. So it does work correctly. Maybe you need to play with the finetuning of the curve to get it working like this. The spitfire in CLOD uses the same braking system. pneumatic brake lever on stick and rudder releases oposite brake turning plane to direction rudder is turned.
WR269 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Yes, they do mate. The brake engages only on the wheel in the direction you press the rudder pedals. If your rudder is neutral, it brakes both wheels. If your rudder is to the right, it brakes the right wheel. Beaut, thanks for this, just learnt something, love the forums. Cheers
Sokol1_br Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 The system in LaGG-3, the valve 3 linked to pedal rudder bar do the trick to brake right or left wheel only.
DieHard Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Mig-21 rolls off the runway and ends up in the grass, becoming stuck. What am I doing wrong? Plane responds very poorly to any attempts to turn the nose around. Unlock nosewheel for taxiing. Lock it for takeoff and landing. Do the Taxiing Training session that comes with the Mig-21bis module. Learn how to steer properly when taxiing. Map your controllers appropriately. Remember to UNLOCK the nosewheel after landing after releasing the drag chute. There is a pressure gage at the base of the stick that shows very nicely the action the rudder pedals work when applied compared to using the brakes only to see what is going on. Read the manual and Chuck's Guide. :) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-uSpZROuEd3d0NuYzJfbWFnblU/edit?pli=1 Edited June 12, 2015 by DieHard [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
DieHard Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) I think he means in the traditional sense where you have an independent brake pedal for each side. FWIW I've never once run out of air in the 21, and I've tried, are we sure that's even modeled? I bled them dry experimenting how they work within the Taxiing Training Session. The lower right panel shows a pressure gage. When the air pressure is at the low yellow limit, there is no longer air available for braking. I was parked on the ramp with the engines running at idle. Is definitely possible! Edited June 12, 2015 by DieHard [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Sokol1_br Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 There is a pressure gage at the base of the stick that shows very nicely the action the rudder pedals work when applied compared to using the brakes only to see what is going on.
gavagai Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 I normally don't have any problems with taxiing, but today on a scramble mission I was a little careless and one of my tires slipped off the pavement as I turned a narrow corner. I was surprised to find out that my Fishbed was completely stuck and I had to restart the mission. Is this intended, normal behavior? P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria
Art-J Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 More or less "normal" for all jets in DCS? Yes. The evil super sticky grass loves jets and always waits to embrace its careless victims :D. "Intended"? I guess someone had good intentions about grass grip levels back in the early days of development of this game engine, but in my opinion it's way overdone. At least it doesn't affect WWII birds in the same manner, so I can live with it :D. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.
Demon_ Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Super sticky grass? It's the same for the MiG-15bis, but not the Sabre. The F-86F can get out but the landing gear is more fragile. Edited June 17, 2015 by Demon_ Attache ta tuque avec d'la broche.
kingfish Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Your best defense against grass is momentum. If it looks like you're gonna hit the grass and you don't think you can stop, then keep your speed and try to punch through. You can only go so far that way, so don't try to make any cross-country trips, but I've found its usually enough to get back onto the taxiway. The -21 has strong enough gear to survive it, as long as you don't come to a complete stop. I mostly fly the F-18, and mostly as a flight sim rather than a combat sim. Gigabyte Aorus Pro Wifi, Ryzen 5 3600, GTX 1080, 16gb DDR4 3600, Valve Index TM Stick/Throttle, Saitek Pedals, VAICOM
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