Su-33 Carrier Approach Speed

ruddy122 · August 1, 2015

Hi Guys,

Quick Question.

I know that in the Su-33, if you approach with the nose greater than 5 degrees nose up that you will scrape the nozzles and explode on impact and its a known bug.

In order to ensure that I have a flat angle approach to the carrier (less than 5 degrees nose up), I'm flying my approach between 350 and 370 KMH. Is that OK or can I fly slower and avoid the Su-33 tail from scraping?

Any thoughts,

Thanks,

Lucky

Drona · August 1, 2015

350kph is too high. Try to approach at around 300kph and touchdown at 250kph to 270kph. Keep your VVI less than 5 m/s, ideally 3 m/s.

Ironhand · August 1, 2015

Hi Guys,

.....

In order to ensure that I have a flat angle approach to the carrier (less than 5 degrees nose up), I'm flying my approach between 350 and 370 KMH. Is that OK or can I fly slower and avoid the Su-33 tail from scraping?

Any thoughts, ...

:) My thought would be to fully extend your flaps and fly your approach at the slowest speed you can while keeping your pitch below 5 degrees. :) Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

A more complete answer (and you may already know all this) is that, in simplistic terms, your throttle controls your altitude and your pitch controls your speed. It's the interaction of the two that'll get you down on the deck in one piece. So you might have to choose your starting altitude carefully.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Ironhand

ruddy122 · August 1, 2015

Thanks for the inputs.

250-280 KMH depending on weight is working out well with a 3 to 5 m/s sink.

Only wish the "Ball" on the Kuznetsov worked but oh well just need to be patient for 2.0 and the Hornet modules to come on line.

Thanks for the great advice

Lucky

DarkFire · August 1, 2015

If you haven't already lower your fuel to below 50%.
Also make sure the carrier has 20+ knots wind over the deck.

This seems like something that many mission designers tend to forget. Having the 20-30 Kts wind-over-deck makes the difference between a fairly comfortable descent & landing and a hair-raising "oh my god oh my god I'm going to die!!! :crazy: " landing.

joey45 · August 2, 2015

Unfortanaly carriers don't turn into wind.

DarkFire · August 3, 2015

Unfortanaly carriers don't turn into wind.

True, but it can sort-of be simulated by the mission designer using waypoints for the maritime group to make it turn in to the wind before the expected time of arrival for the returning player flight. Given a sufficiently long 'base leg' doing this can mostly cope with varying return times caused by what could be called... deviations from the mission plan :)

Cmptohocah · August 3, 2015

If you keep your AoA in the 'green circle' you should be fine:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1104371&postcount=4

I usually fly it at around 280-300km/h, I can make a video to show you my technique if you are interested.

ruddy122 · August 4, 2015

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the great advice.

Before, I forgot to have the carrier moving in the Mission Editor which definitely made the Carrier landing a bit sporty.

Now with the help of a 30kt headwind by the carrier Kuznetsov, I'm getting more comfortable with Carrier Landings and actually enjoy them. Here's a screenshot of my best approach yet :smilewink:

Can't wait for the next update to the Su-33 and the future DCS F/A-18

Sincerely,

Lucky

tovivan · August 6, 2015

If you keep your AoA in the 'green circle' you should be fine:

I usually fly it at around 280-300km/h, I can make a video to show you my technique if you are interested.

Is it just my experience or is the carrier "ball" on the Virtual Aerobatics slightly imprecise? Cause if I follow it I would touch down at the very end of the deck or maybe in water.

Edited August 6, 2015 by tovivan

LJQCN101 · August 15, 2015

3 to 5 m/s sink will probably result in a low glideslope. You'll often see an approximately 8m/s or 1500fpm sink rate IRL russian jets or F-18s. Examples:

(-9m/s)

(-11m/s)

(-8m/s)

(-10m/s)

This is what I usually do: Watch my AOA indicator and fly an on-speed AOA plus a approx 3.5deg glideslope (or follow ILS guidance) with a sink rate of 7~9m/s. Keep that AOA and glideslope all the way to touchdown. Do not flare.

Edited August 29, 2015 by LJQCN101

Kunze13 · August 15, 2015

ill try to make a youtube vid on it tonight if my internet permits (SU33 is %90 what i fly)

also where are you finding these SU33 pics? o:

LJQCN101 · August 23, 2015

ill try to make a youtube vid on it tonight if my internet permits (SU33 is %90 what i fly)

also where are you finding these SU33 pics? o:

Hi, the plane is said to be a MIG-29K, but the unit of speed seems to be in knots while vervical velocity still in m/s. Dunno why.

Pics found in a Chinese military website.

Baz000 · August 29, 2015

OMG for the love of god, I suck trying to land this thing on the carrier... I need someone to teach me. I read all the references on here and I still suck. Primarily keeping the aircraft trimmed is a PITA I just use a 4 way hat for my pitch and roll trim. Someone help, I just have trouble flying the correct glide slope... I can line up to the landing well tho.

I need some tutor or something

HiJack · August 30, 2015

Ironhands tutorial is still good I think :thumbup:

Look up "Carrier Quals: Landing" on this page:

http://flankertraining.com/ironhand/flightbasics.htm

Baz000 · August 30, 2015

the instruments are not the same, but the principle may be

... What was that at the end of the video going on with the missiles? After taxi to the elevator... It looked like they were having protective covers placed on them for storage on the carrier.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Baz000

Ironhand · August 30, 2015

the instruments are not the same, but the principle may be

...

I don't like the sight picture through the HUD, when following the indicated glide slope. It looks too shallow. Attached is a track--please forgive the TIR views, I don't have my stick set up properly and am forever glancing down at the keyboard to issue commands. I think it's best, when following the flight director circle to keep it slightly above the glide slope circle these days.

EDIT: And ignore the "suggested" airspeed in the upper left corner of the HUD. You'll be too slow if you follow it and your AoA much too high.

Also please forgive the quality of the landing--I haven't done a carrier landing in...well...I think I can measure the time in years now.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Ironhand

Baz000 · August 30, 2015

why start so far away from the carrier? I usually just do the instant action mission that came with FC3 or the missions in the FC2 missions folder... And do you have any tips as to how to trim the aircraft? I am horrible at it, I use the 4 way hat on my joystick but I can't get the pitch trim perfect.

I have been playing the SU-33 campaign and just using the autopilot to land on the ship... Even the autopilot has wave off or even bolter sometimes I noticed

Edited August 30, 2015 by Baz000

Ironhand · August 30, 2015

why start so far away from the carrier? I usually just do the instant action mission that came with FC3 or the missions in the FC2 missions folder... And do you have any tips as to how to trim the aircraft? I am horrible at it, I use the 4 way hat on my joystick but I can't get the pitch trim perfect.

I have been playing the SU-33 campaign and just using the autopilot to land on the ship... Even the autopilot has wave off or even bolter sometimes I noticed

Start far enough away that you have time to trim and get the feel of the aircraft before you need to start flying it closer to the edge. No suggestions on trimming as I don't understand what your difficulty is.

I have trim mapped to one of my hat switches and a bump up or down is usually enough. If you start far enough away, you have time to get the aircraft settled in and, then, everything else is much much easier because it's easier to recognize what the aircraft will do before it does it. You fly the aircraft instead of the aircraft flying you.

Baz000 · August 30, 2015

I guess I just don't understand how to trim the plane, when I need to change the trim and how I go about doing that IE: how many times do I bump my button... And being able to stay on glide slope (I guess trim really plays a role here)

HiJack · August 30, 2015

It's a good trimmed aircraft that makes a good landing. I really cant wait for the updated flightmodel for the Su-33 and what that will do for carrier landings. Hope we will have it soon :thumbup:

Ironhand · August 30, 2015

I guess I just don't understand how to trim the plane, when I need to change the trim and how I go about doing that IE: how many times do I bump my button... And being able to stay on glide slope (I guess trim really plays a role here)

Start at a more or less constant air speed. Hold the stick lightly in your hand. If the nose is trying to rise, trim down. If nosing down, trim up. Do this in single increments. At some point you'll realize that the nose is only very slightly rising or falling over long periods of time. At that point you are pretty much trimmed. I always prefer trimming slightly nose down so that I only need the slightest of back pressure on the stick to maintain level flight. I find it easier to pull back gently to raise the nose than to push forward to lower the nose. I seem to have greater control that way.

EDIT: What you don't want to do is press and hold trim up or down. Just use discrete quick presses of the required key combos. It's much easier to control that way.

After practicing for awhile, you'll find yourself able to trim in advance for the airspeed you want to be at and, then, only need minor adjustments to maintain trim.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Ironhand

Baz000 · August 31, 2015

2 seat cockpit functionality would be very cool, because you could actually have a flight instructor training you while you fly in the sim. Would be cool to have trainer aircraft for carrier operations too... How do the Russians train for carrier landings? I'm aware of the US Navy and how they train on land bases and with using Goshawk trainers. Wondering what the Russians do.

Ironhand · August 31, 2015

2 seat cockpit functionality would be very cool, because you could actually have a flight instructor training you while you fly in the sim. Would be cool to have trainer aircraft for carrier operations too... How do the Russians train for carrier landings? I'm aware of the US Navy and how they train on land bases and with using Goshawk trainers. Wondering what the Russians do.

I do know that they do land based training. IIRC correctly one of the old FC1 air bases sported a landing area. Currently, perhaps... : Russian naval pilot training facility nears completion.

But how the transition to landing on carriers is made, I don't really know.

And, yes, an instructor's pit would be cool. :)

Baz000 · August 31, 2015

what are all their carrier borne aircraft they have / use anyways? I just know of the Su-33

Just read the whole article, says they use some SU-25 and MIG-29K... With the MIG-29Ks replacing the aging SU-33's... So does that mean we may get MIG-29K from ED at some point into the future?

Edited August 31, 2015 by Baz000

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