F10 MAP view ultra-slow in multiplayer

[Vyrtuoz]

(Looks like this was not yet reported)

 

With any open beta 1.5 (at least up to 1.5.0.46175), the F10 map view is ultra-slow in multiplayer sessions. For no obvious reason, it runs at something like 0.25 fps while in multiplayer… Absolutely unplayable and it obviously generate huge lag and teleportations.

 

It happens regardless of the aircraft piloted and also as an observer.

 

When not in F10 map view, or when in single player mode, the frame rate is very good as usual (30 to 60 fps with details and effects at 90%).

 

This has been confirmed on several computers as a client (did have the time to test it as a server). For Steam as well as non steam version of DCS World.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Vyrtuoz

[arkroyale048]

What I get is that if I look at the F10 map for long periods, the rest of my flight suffers from extreme FPS loss.

 

Respawning turns it back to normal.

 

 

I can only afford quick glimpses at the F10 map now.

[Blooze]

Although I can't find the thread, for some changing the default animated clouds GUI theme to any other module theme has solved this problem.

[arkroyale048]

How's the GUI theme related to the F10 map ?

 

Anyways, I'm using FC3 theme.

[Vyrtuoz]

I tried several themes without any noticeable changes. I don't use the clouds theme which stutter a lot compared to the smooth in-game frame rate (!)

 

As for the F10 map view, it is always super slow (unusable) regardless of my actions, aircraft, respawns...

[Ranbi2Delta]

I tend to get pretty huge stutters as well when switching to F10 on multiplayer, so you're not alone on this.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi Vyrtuoz,

 

what is your system spec and how many screens are you running?

 

I am not seeing any issue with the f10 map on my end

[Vyrtuoz]

I'm running with one monitor only, Windows 10, latest official nVidia driver, nothing fancy as you can see in the attached dxdiag

DxDiagVyrtuoz.txt

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks Vyrtuoz,

 

The CPU and GPU are lower end but it meets minimum, could it be connection issues?

Are the ports open on your router for 10308?

what connection do you have wireless or wired?

[Vyrtuoz]

Even if my computer is in the lower-end, I’m running at 45 fps in average with 90% of details and effects (great job for than on the 1.5!), so my config is not the problem in single or multiplayer.

 

Only in multiplayer, when I enter the map (on Open Conflict beta server), I’m running at 1 frame every 5 seconds. It is so slow that I don’t use the map anymore…

 

My ports are open and multiplayer gameplay is smooth (out of F10 view) qnd I have a solid wireless connection. (this is not a network ping or bandwidth issue)

 

I really don't think this is a hardware issue because Mirknir has the exact same issue with a competently different system.

[BIGNEWY]

Agreed it is a strange one,

 

I am unable to reproduce on my system, so do not have what I need to report the issue.

 

Could you reproduce the issue for me and then attach your zipped logs folder, we may find some clues in there.

 

I will be chatting with billycrusher tomorrow and I will ask him for advice as well.

[Mirknir]

Hello

 

I have the same problem as Vyrtuoz even if my computer is faster than his.

We play in multiplayer, on a private 1.5 version of my Open Conflict server.

The map may be bigger than normal as it is designed for a 20 players server.

 

In addition to player units, the map has:

- Around 20 planes

- Around 700 statics

- Around 20 ships

- Around 140 vehicles

 

All are visible on F10 map.

 

Everything goes well until we press F10 and the framerate drops making the other clients see us teleport around like we lagging.

 

I hope it will help solving the issue.

 

Thanks

[BIGNEWY]

Hi Mirknir,

 

could you attach the mission, or pm me with a link if you do not want it public so I can try to reproduce.

 

I am guessing with that many units on the map is the issue.

 

Have you tried setting fog of war for the mission to see if it makes a difference or making them all hidden, just to see if the number of units on the f10 map is the problem?

Edited November 7, 2015 by BIGNEWY

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks for the PM,

 

Had a look at the mission with ED, we believe the amount of units showing on the F10 map are the issue.

 

when you get close to the 800 - 1000 unit mark things can become interesting.

 

Try using fog of war or hidden units when you get to these sort of numbers to reduce the load on the F10 map.

[Vyrtuoz]

What is strange is that in single player its mission is smooth in F10 map.

[BIGNEWY]

What is strange is that in single player its mission is smooth in F10 map.

 

Yes it is a network sync issue with so many units. ED are aware, they have advised that hiding the units or using fog of war will reduce the strain on the F10 map in MP when using so many units.

 

Hopefully the future updates will see this sort of thing resolved, but I think personally that will need a rework of the net code.

[Ultra]

I've experienced crashes sometimes when switching to the F10 map in MP. These happened when my FPS was fine, although I think both times the server was experiencing some lag.

 

Multiplayer is kind of a mess right now. Servers seem to crash once an hour when having larger amounts of people. And if the server doesn't crash in that hour, chances are my DCS program will. I'm almost positive it's not my system, as my frames are almost always pretty good. These problems only happen in MP. Hopefully improvements are on the way.

[Vyrtuoz]

Maybe Mirknir can confirm this, but I think that the “same” map is currently working fine with DCS 1.2. That’s why I don’t really think this is a network issue.

 

Also, I hope ED is not going to create a network “bubble” like Falcon 4 do, because this is so frustrating to watch in Tacview :( (when you see just a few objects around your aircraft... that would be a step backward feature wise)

 

Note that I'm not talking about a nice and clean gameplay fog of war.

 

 

Yes it is a network sync issue with so many units. ED are aware, they have advised that hiding the units or using fog of war will reduce the strain on the F10 map in MP when using so many units.

 

Hopefully the future updates will see this sort of thing resolved, but I think personally that will need a rework of the net code.

[Mirknir]

Yes it is a network sync issue with so many units. ED are aware, they have advised that hiding the units or using fog of war will reduce the strain on the F10 map in MP when using so many units.

 

Hopefully the future updates will see this sort of thing resolved, but I think personally that will need a rework of the net code.

 

My server on 1.2 has this amount of units and even more on the F10 map and the F10 map is working properly so it's definetly a 1.5 problem.

 

In addition to client, I also have the problem while being at 2 meters from the server with a ping of 5ms so there's that too.

 

Hiding units on the F10 map is not really a solution as my server is a public one, here to welcome new players and for people to train.

Not showing units on F10 map is against the goal of this kind of server.

 

Also, Fog of War just delays the problem as the worse case scenario is still every units are displayed because they are all discovered and I am pretty sure it involves more network transfer to actually replicate the visibility state of the units.

 

I think this issue is definetly a 1.5 issue and needs to be fixed to help public trainee servers to still run properly.

 

Thanks

[Mirknir]

My server on 1.2 has this amount of units and even more on the F10 map and the F10 map is working properly so it's definetly a 1.5 problem.

 

In addition to client, I also have the problem while being at 2 meters from the server with a ping of 5ms so there's that too.

 

Hiding units on the F10 map is not really a solution as my server is a public one, here to welcome new players and for people to train.

Not showing units on F10 map is against the goal of this kind of server.

 

Also, Fog of War just delays the problem as the worse case scenario is still every units are displayed because they are all discovered and I am pretty sure it involves more network transfer to actually replicate the visibility state of the units.

 

I think this issue is definetly a 1.5 issue and needs to be fixed to help public trainee servers to still run properly.

 

Thanks

 

To be absolutly sure, Vyrtuoz and I will perform more tests with more maps later and I will report the findings.

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks guys, I will highlight to the ED team that this is fine on 1.2 and not on 1.5.

[MegOhm_SD]

In a WWII Escort MP mission yesterday, l checked the F10 map and had a large area of missing textures. It was persistent. 1st time I have ever seen this in F10 view. Anyone else see this?

[vicx]

This is an interesting bug report.

 

I like the possibility that in 1.5 there is more fidelity in the object states and perhaps many more ARGS and other metadata is being made available to network clients and this creates a harder limit at 800 objects. If that is the case I can't say I want ED to revert prematurely to the old way. Much better that they move forward and find techniques to reduce the side effects.

 

Mirknir, the F10 map is the tool you have now but maybe there could be other ways in the future to share target information. I would think a kneeboard would be a valid way. I will have to look into this to see what can be done.

 

Vyrtuoz I understand your problem but I think server side recording is the only way to record a gods eye view with high fidelity. High fidelity means all the ARGS and states for all players, AI and systems. This is how it has always been for recordings of network games. God sits on the server where he has infinite bandwidth.

 

Sorry for commenting on this report that does not directly affect me at the moment. I just found this report interesting.

[BIGNEWY]

In a WWII Escort MP mission yesterday, l checked the F10 map and had a large area of missing textures. It was persistent. 1st time I have ever seen this in F10 view. Anyone else see this?

 

this is a separate issue, if you are using more visibility mod that is the problem

 

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=152073

[Mirknir]

This is an interesting bug report.

 

Mirknir, the F10 map is the tool you have now but maybe there could be other ways in the future to share target information. I would think a kneeboard would be a valid way.

I will have to look into this to see what can be done.

 

 

I understand your point but the fact is that F10 is the easiest tool for new players.

DCS is a great game but we can't say it's the most intuitive one in terms of User Interface.

A lot of new players comes on the server and are already confused about joining planes because 'Fly' is hidden behind 'Briefing' and often they don't even know about F10 map.

I am trying to make information easier to get, not deeper to retreive.

 

If you remove the labels like I did, F10 is the easiest tool for new players to find where to go, check for runway clearance, how to navigate and even locate targets when they can't find them visually.

 

I already have other tools in place but each have their limitations:

- Briefing and briefing map

- Custom scripts, radio menu and text popup I coded in lua to guide players and monitors objectives

(Broken in 1.5 for now: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=149708)

 

Kneeboard would be nice to add for sure but they will never replace the F10 map for new players especially to find moving targets like planes and convoys.

 

Trust me, I am trying other tools but F10 is still the best one.

 

I like the possibility that in 1.5 there is more fidelity in the object states and perhaps many more ARGS and other metadata is being made available to network clients and this creates a harder limit at 800 objects. If that is the case I can't say I want ED to revert prematurely to the old way. Much better that they move forward and find techniques to reduce the side effects.

The problem is the number of static objects which are, by definition, non moving, non attacking, without AI and with just a life bar so I think the number should not be a problem as it was not one in DCS 1.2.