price complaining

[NineLine]

That's the way I see it too :)

 

At the same time it is also getting harder and harder owning every module that comes out and paying full price, simply because there are so many I know I will never get around to fly many of them properly. So these sales are great!

 

I can see that in the future there might be bundles going for sale like a few WW2 Fighters or something like that.

 

We just saw a MiG/Sabre bundle for the MiG/Sabre dogfight competition, so I think that's probably a good guess.

[alfredo_laredo]

We just saw a MiG/Sabre bundle for the MiG/Sabre dogfight competition, so I think that's probably a good guess.

 

By the way, with current discounts.. the bundle is more expensive than them separated

80 for 2

vs

35 for each one :music_whistling:

[NineLine]

Sale wont last for ever, should jump on it

[BlackLion213]

If we want to have a serious discussion on what constitutes "too much" for a DCS module, then comparing similar programs is the only logical approach. The problem is: DCS is a unique product since (at least from what I can tell) no one else is really producing combat flight sims to this level of detail and fidelity. PMDG might be comparable (not on the flight model, but on systems) and VRS is probably quite similar to a DCS module. The PMDG 777 add-on for P3D costs $134....VRS Superbig costs $60 and the TacPack is another $50 (so $110 for the same level of functionality in every DCS module). Suddenly, $50 seems pretty darn good. :)

 

Not to stray off topic too much, but I re-entered the flight sim world after a 12 year hiatus. I bought a program before DCS and several add-ons. The base program was $60 and all of the add-ons were around $40-50. The add-ons do not have nearly the detail of a full DCS module, yet they are pretty similar in price. Plus, the base program cost real money.

 

When I started looking in to DCS, the pricing seemed totally reasonable, even before I realized that there were periodic sales. Once I started playing, it seemed like a relative bargain given the quality - which frankly astounded me once i started playing.

 

There will always be the issue of people wanting more than they can spend, but that's not ED problem.

 

-Nick

[Bucic]

Polish Zloty (PLN) is worth almost as little as 1/4 of US Dollar or 1/5 of Euro. An engineer fresh out of college often earns just $1000 here paying over a third of that for a single-room flat and over a Dollar for a liter of gas. And guess what. There are no special prices for Central Europe in ED Store.

What was your complaint again?

Edited November 22, 2015 by Bucic

[chromium]

Polish Zloty (PLN) is worth almost as little as 1/4 of US Dollar or 1/5 of Euro. An engineer fresh out of college often earns just $1000 here paying over a third of that for a single-room flat and over a Dollar for a liter of gas.

 

OT/

Hey, it's almost like here: after university if you find a Job, you will work for free for 5-6 months (they call it "stage"), then you will work for 600 to 900 € for a couple of years, then maybe you can rise to 1100 - 1300 €. Still you pay from 350 to 550 € for rent, and gasoline cost 1.5 €/lt.

That may be why a lot of peoble play videogames, they don't have much money to stay out every evening XD. We are still lucky that we can complain about those conditions and the fact that we are here writing in this forum, to be sincere :)

/OT

[lokodehortaleza]

I have all the modules except for the BF-109, Mi-8 & P-40. Prepurchased Nevada, the Mirage, the Albatross even though I haven't even flown it yet, I have all the trainers and I haven't even touched these. Between the ww2 warbirds, the korean war jets, the KA-50 & Huey, I doubt I have 10 flight hours.

 

ED has all the data on development costs and must set the prices accordingly, to make the profit they deserve and let DCS keep growing. However I can tell you in my case, if it wasn't for those 70% discount sales, i'd own just FC3, Mig-21 & A-10C. All the others I bought just for the hell of it, I'd never have paid full price. Even at discount, I must have spent over 100€ in modules I don't ever use. Maybe I should be thankful for the end of 70% sales.

[Oceandar]

So, its the end of 70% discount. ED has financial trouble ? Surely I hope not.....

 

Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

[BlackLion213]

As for FSX stuff, you realize you don't have to pay for that kind of thing right? There are tons of free mods for it that include new scenery and aircraft. Obviously some are better than others. But even the paid ones typically fall well short of the $50 mark. PMDG specifically focuses on commercial airliners. By their very nature, those are going to be on the top end of the systems complexity scale. You really can't compare the work required for a Boeing 777 to something like a MiG-21. They aren't anywhere near similar. Now if someone wants to make DCS: Tu-160, then yeah, $80 for that is totally fair. I might even buy it myself. But I'm not forking over that kind of money for a Bf-109E7 that I can get at a comparable level of detail for $8 elsewhere.

 

My experience with the freeware add-ons is that most are pretty superficial representations. The really good ones, such as Dino Cattaneo's work, is pretty detailed, but still pretty far off from what you get in DCS (or the Aerosoft Tomcat for that matter).

 

I stopped getting stuff for P3D because it's just not as engrossing as DCS (for me and my preferences).

 

So I disagree (which makes the conversation much better BTW ;)), if you want good aircraft with decent fidelity - you need to pay for it in FSX/P3D.

 

True about the 777 vs MiG-21 (but it also costs ~3x as much, is it 3x as much work?), but what about VRS Superbug? What does it offer that a full DCS modern fighter would not have? The VRS stuff is at least as expensive and much more if you consider the need for TacPack to use weapons.

 

I would always like things to be cheaper and I have taken advantage of sales. But the value proposition as been a good one for me in DCS. I also understand that it may not be for others (especially with exchange rates and differences in cost of living - that sounds like a BIG problem for some - I sympathize).

 

-Nick

[alfredo_laredo]

The price is ok.

Just some FSX plane are like

PMDG 777 (no expansion packs).................135 US dlr

A2A P51 with Accusim... 50 Us dlrs

PMDG 737 (no expansion packs)..............89.99

 

And I had to buy this again for the update from FSX to P3D

 

And this are 1 year+ old.

 

So the most expensive module right know its 59.99 the Mirage, and its on sale for 47.99

 

Remember guys they could have charged us 5 dollar for each module "update" from 1.2 to 2.0 edge.

 

But It was a free upgrade to a new engine

[Yurgon]

You really can't compare the work required for a Boeing 777 to something like a MiG-21. They aren't anywhere near similar. Now if someone wants to make DCS: Tu-160, then yeah, $80 for that is totally fair. I might even buy it myself. But I'm not forking over that kind of money for a Bf-109E7 that I can get at a comparable level of detail for $8 elsewhere.

 

Are you sure the number of buttons in the pit translates to the work required to get an aircraft modeled?

 

Yeah, the 109's systems are a lot less complex than those of a 777. On the other hand, not knowing said 777's flight model, I would assume that a single, high powered prop requires a flight model that is incredibly complex, at least if done right.

 

Flight model developers could probably come up with lots and lots of shortcuts in order to make it somewhat believable. As far as I know, DCS doesn't take a whole lot of these shortcuts, though. In this regard, I'd rather pay 50$ for a well modeled DCS Bf-109 than something that has a nice pit, maybe even clickable buttons, but fails on the flight model side of things.

 

Besides, what do people do with these different aircraft? With a 777, it's a lot of learning buttons, switcheology, systems, radios and all that stuff. After that, it's poking holes in the sky.

With a Bf-109, once a player can take off (which could take just an hour or so to learn the cold start), it's hours and hours and hours to get even remotely proficient, learning the aircraft's limits and being able to fly within - and beyond - the limits.

 

I'm not arguing the Bf-109 should be worth more than 8$ to you. But I do argue that it's worth its price.

 

That said, I also got it in a sale and probably wouldn't have bought it at full price, either, because I'm not that interested in WWII aircraft. But even at full price I would be fairly close to 1 hour per Dollar, and I can definitely say that I'm nowhere near proficient yet, and so the Messerschmitt probably still holds a lot of bang for the buck for me. :thumbup:

[fastfreddie]

I have all the modules except for the BF-109, Mi-8 & P-40. Prepurchased Nevada, the Mirage, the Albatross even though I haven't even flown it yet, I have all the trainers and I haven't even touched these. Between the ww2 warbirds, the korean war jets, the KA-50 & Huey, I doubt I have 10 flight hours.

 

ED has all the data on development costs and must set the prices accordingly, to make the profit they deserve and let DCS keep growing. However I can tell you in my case, if it wasn't for those 70% discount sales, i'd own just FC3, Mig-21 & A-10C. All the others I bought just for the hell of it, I'd never have paid full price. Even at discount, I must have spent over 100€ in modules I don't ever use. Maybe I should be thankful for the end of 70% sales.

 

I've got no problem with the modules priced at $40-$60 at release and I'll pick up the ones that really interest me. But I've also picked up about 4 other modules that I wouldn't have purchased otherwise unless they were on sale. Some modules will need extra incentives 4-6 months after release.

[VincentLaw]

Remember guys they could have charged us 5 dollar for each module "update" from 1.2 to 2.0 edge.

 

But It was a free upgrade to a new engine

They own DCS, so they can do pretty much anything they want. They could charge $5 per month subscription fee if they wanted to, but I quit playing all games with subscription fees. Charging for updates to the core would seriously harm the 3rd party market, and keeping the third parties healthy is surely more profitable to ED.

[King_Hrothgar]

The price is ok.

Just some FSX plane are like

PMDG 777 (no expansion packs).................135 US dlr

A2A P51 with Accusim... 50 Us dlrs

PMDG 737 (no expansion packs)..............89.99

 

And I had to buy this again for the update from FSX to P3D

 

And this are 1 year+ old.

 

So the most expensive module right know its 59.99 the Mirage, and its on sale for 47.99

 

Remember guys they could have charged us 5 dollar for each module "update" from 1.2 to 2.0 edge.

 

But It was a free upgrade to a new engine

 

PMDG 777 for FSX with no expansion packs is $89.99. The P3D one is $135. Source: https://www.precisionmanuals.com/pages/product/FSX/777LRF.html It's also worth noting that P3D is intended as a professional simulation for flight schools rather than as a video game for home usage. It's like claiming blender should cost $3600 like 3ds max does because they both do basically the same thing.

 

In any case, I think a lot of you are missing my point. My point is the prices of modules should better reflect their content. PMDG's 777 would be about like a DCS: Tu-160. Charging $90 for something like that is perfectly reasonable and inline with other hardcore flight sims (FSX/P3D, IL2 series, X-Plane). But charging $50 for a Bf-109 is not inline with them, that kind of thing typically falls into the under $15 category. And yes, on a plane like that the flight model is the biggest component, but DCS isn't the only flight sim running high fidelity flight models, so it is a fair comparison.

 

Overall I think this would be a better pricing system:

 

$15 or less for primitive aircraft. Examples: Sopwith Camel, Piper Cub.

 

$15-20 for simple aircraft. Examples: Bf-109, F-86, Cessna 172 (VFR).

 

$20-40 for medium complexity aircraft. Examples: UH-1H, MiG-21Bis, Mirage 2000C RDI, F-5E, Cessna 172 (IFR).

 

$40-60 for high complexity aircraft. Examples: Mi-8, F-14, F/A-18C, A-10C, Mi-24, Ka-50.

 

$80+ for extremely complicated aircraft. Examples: B-52, Tu-160, B-1B, B-17 (all crew positions modeled).

 

This is all assuming high fidelity flight models and ASM. If lacking one or more of those things, the pricing should be drastically lower. FC3 serves as a good reference for pricing for those. Also notice that this list still recommends an overall price increase, it's simply more nuanced than ED's system. I'd also restrict sales to no more than 25% off of the above prices. So yes, I am in favor of bumping the prices up some overall, just not for everything.

Edited November 22, 2015 by King_Hrothgar

[NineLine]

Here is a simple formula, this is the formula I use to purchase things.

 

DO I want it.... buy it

 

Do I have enough money and I want it.... buy it

 

Do I have time to fly/learn it, and I want it, and I have enough money.... buy it

 

Do I have enough money, and I want to support the dev... buy it.

 

I dont have the time to learn it.... dont buy it

 

I dont have the money.... dont buy it

 

It doesnt really interest me... dont buy it.

 

Its pretty easy.

 

Dont ask the dev to sell it for less so you can "collect them all"...

 

Dont ask the dev to sell it for less then ask them why they take so long to develop other products

 

Dont ask the dev to sell it for less, proclaiming on their forums you love them and all they do, but will wait till its 70% off to purchase it...

 

Anyways... on that note. This thread is pointless... ED knows their market, they know their customer base, they know what they need to do to afford develop DCS World and keep the lights on... everything they do is for that. Oh yeah, and to fuel Matt's private jet... it runs on forum tears by the way.

 

In before the lock. :joystick:

Edited November 22, 2015 by NineLine