F-117 Nighthawk

[Cool Breeze]

The F-117 would be a buy from me. I love the wobblin' Goblin. However, there could be better choices for the role. After all, the F-117 comes in low and "fast." To that end, an Aardvark, Fencer, or Tornado would be even more entertaining for a some what similar mission profile.

 

I don't think there was anything low and "fast" about the Goblin. I hardly claim amateur knowledge about her, but I'm sure that she did most, if not all of her bombing from 15,000ft or higher. Also, her combat missions where exclusively flown at night. :noexpression:

 

The Nighthawk missions that I envisage would take a substantial amount of long slow hours between take-off, refueling, bombing, refueling, and landing. As was said, your more of a systems manager with the occasional piloting. I think that she would have her cult following, don't misunderstand me. The Deep Penetration missions would have to be very in depth. A substantially improved briefing system would be a must. Maybe one day a digital video style briefing will appear.:music_whistling:

 

While a very cool aircraft, I think others like the Aardvark, Fencer, Tornado, Strike Eagle, and Intruder could offer that deep strike role in a much more interesting and hands on flight. Not to mention those jets while they did fly mostly at night, would not be out of place flying daytime strike missions. They offer much better replay possibilities and vastly larger strike envelopes which include standoff Ironhand\Wild Weasel missions.:thumbup:

 

Would I buy the Nighthawk? *sigh*:doh: Probably just to have in my stable. There are just so may other jets, props, and even a few turbo-props that I would like to see first.

[Lt_Maverick]

One sure thing: in terms of polycount-friendly, no other aircraft comes close :D

 

 

This post broke the Internet.

 

 

 

 

"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."- General Chuck Yeager, USAF, describing his first confrontation with a Me262.

 

 

JayRac3r/Lt_Mav YouTube Channel

[Lt_Maverick]

I don't think there was anything low and "fast" about the Goblin. I hardly claim amateur knowledge about her, but I'm sure that she did most, if not all of her bombing from 15,000ft or higher. Also, her combat missions where exclusively flown at night. :noexpression:

 

The Nighthawk missions that I envisage would take a substantial amount of long slow hours between take-off, refueling, bombing, refueling, and landing. As was said, your more of a systems manager with the occasional piloting. I think that she would have her cult following, don't misunderstand me. The Deep Penetration missions would have to be very in depth. A substantially improved briefing system would be a must. Maybe one day a digital video style briefing will appear.:music_whistling:

 

While a very cool aircraft, I think others like the Aardvark, Fencer, Tornado, Strike Eagle, and Intruder could offer that deep strike role in a much more interesting and hands on flight. Not to mention those jets while they did fly mostly at night, would not be out of place flying daytime strike missions. They offer much better replay possibilities and vastly larger strike envelopes which include standoff Ironhand\Wild Weasel missions.:thumbup:

 

Would I buy the Nighthawk? *sigh*:doh: Probably just to have in my stable. There are just so may other jets, props, and even a few turbo-props that I would like to see first.

 

 

Great analysis. I really would love the 117 but you're 100% right.

 

 

 

 

"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."- General Chuck Yeager, USAF, describing his first confrontation with a Me262.

 

 

JayRac3r/Lt_Mav YouTube Channel

[will487]

 

While a very cool aircraft, I think others like the Aardvark, Fencer, Tornado, Strike Eagle, and Intruder could offer that deep strike role in a much more interesting and hands on flight. Not to mention those jets while they did fly mostly at night, would not be out of place flying daytime strike missions. They offer much better replay possibilities and vastly larger strike envelopes which include standoff Ironhand\Wild Weasel missions.:thumbup:

 

Yes! Particularly the Tornado! :thumbup:

[Cool Breeze]

Like this one...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where did you get these from Mike?

[ben_der]

I feel like the F117 would be a perfect Aircraft for the free DCS World itself like the Su 25 and the TF51.

 

It could attract some more People to DCS in general as they'd be able to experience a iconic USAF Aircraft being able to drop a limited amount of Bombs.

So because it is so limited, to me the Nighthawk would make sense as a free standard DCS World Aircraft.

 

I like it but I wouldn't buy it.

[OnlyforDCS]

Why is Razbam even attempting this? Isn't this airplane and all of its systems, including its FBW system still very classified? How would they even model the FM of this flying "brick". It was infamous for requiring specifically designed software to even get in the air?

 

I could see it in the game with some kind of SFM and simplified systems sort of like the FC3 planes, but I don't believe a DCS level module of this plane would be very accurate at all.

[Bacab]

Why is Razbam even attempting this? Isn't this airplane and all of its systems, including its FBW system still very classified? How would they even model the FM of this flying "brick". It was infamous for requiring specifically designed software to even get in the air?

 

I could see it in the game with some kind of SFM and simplified systems sort of like the FC3 planes, but I don't believe a DCS level module of this plane would be very accurate at all.

Some manuals about procedures and systems can be found on the Internet. They include details about the navigation and attack system as well as some informations about performances of those systems. Data about the materials and aerodynamics seems to be more difficult to find.

[Buzzles]

Why is Razbam even attempting this? Isn't this airplane and all of its systems, including its FBW system still very classified? How would they even model the FM of this flying "brick". It was infamous for requiring specifically designed software to even get in the air?

 

I could see it in the game with some kind of SFM and simplified systems sort of like the FC3 planes, but I don't believe a DCS level module of this plane would be very accurate at all.

 

Well, considering the F-117A is basically a parts plane made up of existing USAF inventory at the time to reduce cost and project risk, then no they're not super classified, the FBW system is actually from the F-16 iirc.

 

I think the undercarriage was from the A10 and the navigation system is from the B52. Quite a lot of parts are from the F/A-18 (engines!) and the F15 too.

 

The stuff that's classified is going to be mostly stealth tech related, maybe even flight performance data.

 

Does it mean that someone would get a licence to make one? Probably not :)

 

I'd be interested to have a flyable one in DCS though, could make for some rather exciting night missions, especially if there were things like random failures for the autopilot and related systems to enforce manual flying.

 

Would definitely be more of an SP Campaign aircraft than multiplayer though, especially if you wanted to use nukes :)

Edited December 2, 2015 by Buzzles

[Sweep]

 

The stuff that's classified is going to be mostly stealth tech related, maybe even flight performance data.

 

Take a brick, put wings on it.

 

That's the F-117 aerodynamically, or so the internet wants me to believe. :megalol:

[RoflSeal]

Having a pure bomber would be nice.

[Mike Busutil]

Where did you get these from Mike?

 

 

Those pictures were from the mods and apps section here in the forums. It was a project someone was working on a few years back. I guess they gave up on it... Which is too bad because the modeling was really far along.

[Angelthunder]

If a F-117 Nighthawk can be developed by you guys at Razbam.It would definitely be good for using it in the new Nevada map,since ED is thinking about adding Tonopah AFB later down the road.You could make a Red Flag campaign too for it.:)All we need left is the F-16C,F-15E,F-4E,F-22 & F-105 and well have a modern combat sim recreation of Janes USAF.:D

[Mike Busutil]

The F-117 is really an amazing and unique jet. It deserves to be modeled properly and get a home in DCS.

 

The fast intense action of a dogfight is not there sure, but we have fighters for that mission.

 

I would think a quality built night mission requiring accurate mision altitudes and a specific timeline to place your stealth jet unknowingly to the enemy over the target area covered in SAMS to destroy the correct target and return home undetected or shot down has an equal amount of action in a different way.

 

Besides just the random flying with a buddy doing formation flights or touch and go's or sightseeing to take awesome screenshots. Either way, I say hell yes, bring on the Nighthawk!

 

[rrohde]

Mike Busutil - the way you described it makes it sound really neat. Guess I can subscribe to that idea as well.

 

+1

[OnlyforDCS]

Well, considering the F-117A is basically a parts plane made up of existing USAF inventory at the time to reduce cost and project risk, then no they're not super classified, the FBW system is actually from the F-16 iirc.

 

I think the undercarriage was from the A10 and the navigation system is from the B52. Quite a lot of parts are from the F/A-18 (engines!) and the F15 too.

 

The stuff that's classified is going to be mostly stealth tech related, maybe even flight performance data.

 

Does it mean that someone would get a licence to make one? Probably not :)

 

I'd be interested to have a flyable one in DCS though, could make for some rather exciting night missions, especially if there were things like random failures for the autopilot and related systems to enforce manual flying.

 

Would definitely be more of an SP Campaign aircraft than multiplayer though, especially if you wanted to use nukes :)

 

Fellow simmers, the bold part is the most important part. The plane basically required the most powerful computers of its time to be fitted so that it could fly. Also a plane is more than just a sum of all its parts. I don't think an accurate DCS simulation is possible of the F117, I've never even seen a picture of a working cockpit on the internet?

[FishDoctor]

Fellow simmers, the bold part is the most important part. The plane basically required the most powerful computers of its time to be fitted so that it could fly. Also a plane is more than just a sum of all its parts. I don't think an accurate DCS simulation is possible of the F117, I've never even seen a picture of a working cockpit on the internet?

 

The most powerful computers of that time? Today every mobilephone has more performance...;)

Aerodynamics wouldn't be a problem, because you simply can put the Model into a simulationprogram (Not a Game but pe SolidWorks,...) and simulate the flowing air. Technically not that big of a deal. All other parts, don't know.

 

BUT:

Why do we have this thread? Where is the information about a F-117 coming from?

[OnlyforDCS]

Aerodynamics wouldn't be a problem, because you simply can put the Model into a simulationprogram (Not a Game but pe SolidWorks,...) and simulate the flowing air. Technically not that big of a deal.

 

Actually that is quite a big deal and no you can't simply do that. You need accurate lift/drag coefficients for every single surface of the plane, if you want to build an accurate FM representation in DCS. So you need to do really thorough CFD testing and you cant get these from a computer model that is based on guess-estimates. If Razbam can get accurate factory blueprints for the F117 then that would be something else but I imagine those would be heavily classified.

Edited December 2, 2015 by OnlyforDCS

[SDsc0rch]

Would you guys be interested in having the night fighter/bomber in DCS?

 

i would *love* it!

8)

 

==

 

ps.. mike, can't rep you - but you hit the nail on the head!

Edited December 2, 2015 by SDsc0rch

[Bacab]

Fellow simmers, the bold part is the most important part. The plane basically required the most powerful computers of its time to be fitted so that it could fly. Also a plane is more than just a sum of all its parts. I don't think an accurate DCS simulation is possible of the F117, I've never even seen a picture of a working cockpit on the internet?

What do you mean by a "working cockpit" ?

[FishDoctor]

Actually that is quite a big deal and no you can't simply do that. You need accurate lift/drag coefficients for every single surface of the plane, if you want to build an accurate FM representation in DCS. So you need to do really thorough CFD testing and you cant get these from a computer model that is based on guess-estimates. If Razbam can get accurate factory blueprints for the F117 then that would be something else but I imagine those would be heavily classified.

 

Do you think they are top secret? I mean, it isn't in active duty and there should be no technology build in an old Nighthawk which isn't known in modern aircraft industry. Material Science made huge steps within the last 20 years an F/A-35 is made from completly different materials with different production engeneering,...

 

I mean, I have no idea, but I can't imagine there are still secrets in the hopeless outdated technology of the Nighthawks...

Maybe the US-DoD is as slow as departments all over the world and simply doesn't give up the secrets of the past because of...reasons...don't know.

 

Nevertheless...why discuss about the plane? Are there concrete plans by RAZBAM?

[OnlyforDCS]

@Bacab: Exactly what I said, an intact cockpit with its instruments in working order.

 

@FishDoctor: Yes they are top secret. If they weren't the Chinese (and any country with a sufficient military budget) would be building copies of the F117, as they have been doing with their F16 copies for example. As for the discussion, the OP is a modeler who works with Razbam and this thread was created to gauge interest in the F117.

 

Don't get me wrong I would love an F117 but I sincerely doubt that it could be built to the DCS level of complexity with publicly available documentation.

[chev255]

Do you think they are top secret? I mean, it isn't in active duty and there should be no technology build in an old Nighthawk which isn't known in modern aircraft industry. Material Science made huge steps within the last 20 years an F/A-35 is made from completly different materials with different production engeneering,...

 

I mean, I have no idea, but I can't imagine there are still secrets in the hopeless outdated technology of the Nighthawks...

Maybe the US-DoD is as slow as departments all over the world and simply doesn't give up the secrets of the past because of...reasons...don't know.

 

Nevertheless...why discuss about the plane? Are there concrete plans by RAZBAM?

The part in bold is correct - F-4 Phantom is still heavily classified even though much older than the F-117A!!

[TomOnSteam]

I can see the F-117 Nighthawk working pretty well as an FC3 type module actually.

 

In DCS, we currently have no stealth planes, and only one SEAD capable Su-25T. So I think it would fit quiet well. I'd easily pay $10 for it (or however much the F-15C costs these days). It'd be fun to fly right into the hotzone at night and drop a few LGB's and fly out again, as a way to make the first strike in a new war. It would certainly be novel anyway.

Edited December 2, 2015 by TomOnSteam

[Mainstay]

Absolute NO.

 

Rather see a A-6 intruder, F-4 Phantom or a F-105 Thunderchief.