Radar on the M2K

[Zeus67]

Good Good Good...:clap:

 

Another question: How IFF interrogator works on HUD/VTB?

 

Unfortunately the IFF interrogator is not enabled for open beta.

 

But you press a button, which is in the HOTAS group, the radar send a coded pulse and friendly contacts symbols are marked as such. Those contacts that do not have the friendly symbol can be considered hostile.

[Cantiga]

Unfortunately the IFF interrogator is not enabled for open beta.

:Flush:

 

Anyway, Beta is Beta, just for testing. I'm willing to help you:thumbup: Thanks for reply.

[OxideMako]

Unfortunately the IFF interrogator is not enabled for open beta.

 

But you press a button, which is in the HOTAS group, the radar send a coded pulse and friendly contacts symbols are marked as such. Those contacts that do not have the friendly symbol can be considered hostile.

 

Sounds similar to the MiG-21 radar, where all contacts are unidentified until you hit the "IFF" button, then displays what aircraft in the scope are friendly/foe for a few seconds, then reverts to the original display.

[AussieGhost789]

Unfortunately the IFF interrogator is not enabled for open beta.

 

But you press a button, which is in the HOTAS group, the radar send a coded pulse and friendly contacts symbols are marked as such. Those contacts that do not have the friendly symbol can be considered hostile.

 

Does this mean that during beta the Mirage won't be able to discriminate between friend and foe? Or will it just function automatically, like in the F-15C until the feature is implemented?

[sedenion]

To select CCM you must press the key "V" or assign it to a button in your HOTAS equipment.

 

( Why "V" and not any traditionnal number key ("2", "3", "4", etc) like in others common modules ? )

[chev255]

Radar Special Modes.

 

Hello, at last I have some time to keep talking about the M-2000C radar.

Zeus, really appreciate you taking the time to post all this info about the radar, missiles, etc. Keep it up! (and PLEASE do the F-15E after this module :thumbup:)

[il_corleone]

Thanks for the info!

[T_A]

Thanks for the Info , i bought the M2K partly due to how transparent your development processes is.

 

i`d also like to know how IFF will work in the beta (don't want any friendly fire incidents)

[mattebubben]

Zeus, really appreciate you taking the time to post all this info about the radar, missiles, etc. Keep it up! (and PLEASE do the F-15E after this module :thumbup:)

 

im actually more excited about the A-7 then i am a possible F-15E.

 

What i hope they will make is a Mirage-2000E.

 

Export variant of the Mirage-2000C compatible with a Laser Targeting pod (and as such able to use Laser guided weapons / bombs.

 

other then the Laser Targeting pod and radar its identical to the

Mirage-2000C RDI.

 

That would probably be the quickest/best way to get a High Fidelity highley capable Multi role aircraft.

 

With Air-Air capabillities air-ground guided munitions aswell as Sead weapons (Both the AS-30L and Armat are very commonly used on the Mirage-2000E)

[jojo]

Off topic...:music_whistling:

[JNelson]

Thanks for the Info , i bought the M2K partly due to how transparent your development processes is.

 

i`d also like to know how IFF will work in the beta (don't want any friendly fire incidents)

 

I second this I would also like to know how we are going to iff in the beta, but for now: ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN.

[Corrigan]

how we are going to iff in the beta

 

[Sarge55]

Lol... Took me a second. Well done Corrigan.

[Corrigan]

;)

[Badlego]

I think this is time to explain something about airborne radars in general and the RDI in particular:

 

The documentation for the RDI indicates that the antenna limits are 60º azimuth and 60º elevation. That creates an horizontal arc of 120º and a vertical one of 120º.

 

Furthermore, the RDI radar has three horizontal aperture settings: 60, 30 and 15 degrees; while it has a vertical search option of 4, 2 and 1 bars. One bar = the radar search cone diameter. The RDI antenna provides a search cone with a diameter of 3º. So in this context you have a 12, 6 and 3 degrees vertical search pattern.

 

The following images will explain better than words will do:

 

 

As you can see that while the search pattern of the RDI radar manage to cover the entire horizonal arc with the 60º azimuth aperture, in the vertical it barely manages to cover 12º out of the 120º arc.

 

Having this in mind, be aware that it is very possible that an enemy aircraft will fly above or below the vertical radar coverage while in paper being inside its search radius. This also means that a bandit that you detected at max range can drop out of the radar because it flew below the search cone.

 

Also, in order to cover the entire search volume of space, the antenna has to move. This movement takes time and while fast, it is slow enough that a bandit track may be gone by the time the antenna returns to where it was before.

 

 

The RDI radar has three scan modes: RWS (Range While Search), TWS (Track While Scan) and STT (Single Target Track).

 

In RWS, the antenna follows the designated search pattern and informs you of all the tracks discovered in one sweep. One sweep meaning completing its search pattern as indicated by the bars selection. The RDI only provides the following information: range, azimuth and closing velocity in Mach number.

 

In TWS, you lock the radar to a track but at the same time the radar keeps searching its designate volume looking for new tracks. In this case, the radar will provide you with more information specific to the locked track (heading, speed, altitude) but the antenna will move exactly as if it were in RWS mode in order to follow all the other unselected tracks. Because the antenna is moving away from the locked track, it is not possible to guide weapons in this mode.

 

In both RWS and TWS, track information is slowly updated, you can notice this because the track symbols "jump" to a new position when the antenna sweeps the space where they are located.

 

In STT, the radar dismisses all other tracks and redefines the locked track as weapons target. The antenna is locked to the position of the selected target in order to provide continuous tracking information to guide weapons. Be aware that while you can engage bandits in this mode, you are also blind to the other bandits in the area. At this point only your eyes and the RWR can help you locate other threats.

 

Im a bit Confused about the vertical limits. A 60 degr. Limit is set in the picture and you call ist A 120 degr. Limitation. This can be easily seen in the picture as the vertical cone has an angle greater Then 90 degr. Shouldnt a 12 degr. Limitation Then result in a cone of 24 degr., instead of the called 12 degr..

 

I once noticed that i can lock a plane that is between 6 and 12 degr. Of my hud. If the 4bar searching only Covers an angle of 12 degr. (-6 to 6 degr. Of my hud), this shouldnt be possible.

[GGTharos]

The 60 degree 'limitation' is the angle from boresight, ie. the gimbal angle.

If you go gimbal-to-gimbal you get 120 degrees.

 

For a scan zone, you just give the total number of degrees it covers.

[Badlego]

I tested the vertical scan limits with a simple mission (attached). I placed a fighter at a horizontal distance of 30km and 5,2km above me which results into a vertical angle of 10 degrees (30km*tan(10°)~5,2-5,3km). My radar could find the fighter above me (see picture) although hes outside of my 4-bar search limitation from -6 to 6 degrees (12 degrees in total).

 

So are you sure that the 4 bar search includes a cone of 12° and not more, like 24°?

M2k-RadarTest.miz

[GGTharos]

That's what I would personally expect, yes. The 12 degrees is actually pretty large for long-range search, effectively implying a beam-width of a little over 3 degrees (you need to have some over-lap).

 

I could see 12 degrees as you get closer, say 20nm where a wider beam-width is feasible.

[PiedDroit]

I tested the vertical scan limits with a simple mission (attached). I placed a fighter at a horizontal distance of 30km and 5,2km above me which results into a vertical angle of 10 degrees (30km*tan(10°)~5,2-5,3km). My radar could find the fighter above me (see picture) although hes outside of my 4-bar search limitation from -6 to 6 degrees (12 degrees in total).

 

So are you sure that the 4 bar search includes a cone of 12° and not more, like 24°?

 

You forget to take the earth curve in account into your computations I think.

edit: also, we don't know where the radar is pointing exactly, in relationship with the scan max distance.

Edited February 16, 2016 by PiedDroit

[YoYo]

Please to add offical keys for operations with radar:

 

- Radar Azimuth : 60

- Radar Azimuth : 30

- Radar Azimuth : 15

 

- Radar Bscope

- Radar PPI

 

- Radar distance "+" and "-" (for switch from the left panel, not from HOTAS, here no any option for this in settings)

 

- Radar scan 1 line

- Radar scan 2 line

- Radar scan 4 line

 

Why no here this important keys?

Edited February 16, 2016 by YoYo

[Badlego]

You forget to take the earth curve in account into your computations I think

 

Angles are fix values. You cAn see on the hud that i locked the fighter with an angle of 10 degrees. A 12 degree cone sets the limits to -6 to 6 degrees. The hud is a good tool to see the angle between me and the target because the radar and the pilot are just a few meters away from each other and look into the same direction.

 

So again my question: are you sure that the vertical radar cone of the 4 bar search mode is limited to a total value of 12 degrees or is it even bigger? I just want to know the right values sothat i can i can imagine what area is covered by my radar.

 

My suggestion is that the 4 bar cone covers a cone with 24 degrees...

 

Edit: as the radar cant be moved atm i guess it watched strajght forward to the horizon.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Badlego

[PiedDroit]

What I. mean is that depending on which volume you want to scan (providing you scan same altitude), the angles will be different.

The farther you want to scan, the lower you aim, because of earth curvature.

Without knowing how the radar is aiming, it's not possible to make computations like this.

[Fri13]

To raise this old but very well explained the radar basic functions, I just have a question about radar scanning:

 

Does the radar horizontal scanning cone follow the horizon, or the aircraft roll axis?

 

Meaning that if I roll aircraft 45 degree to left, does then the radar scanning cone move as well in 45 degree angle (from left to right in cockpit, 45 degree compared to horizon)?

[zerO_crash]

To raise this old but very well explained the radar basic functions, I just have a question about radar scanning:

 

Does the radar horizontal scanning cone follow the horizon, or the aircraft roll axis?

 

Meaning that if I roll aircraft 45 degree to left, does then the radar scanning cone move as well in 45 degree angle (from left to right in cockpit, 45 degree compared to horizon)?

 

It`s both vertically and horizontally stabilised. So yes, it stays with horizon.

[zerO_crash]

Are you really sure?

 

Yes, sure. Also how it works in DCS. The gimbal limit for vertical stabilisation is 60deg. As for roll, I`m not sure how much it permits, would need someone who can read french to find any sources on this, but it certainly does stabilise as I have spotted targets while flying at angle (and they were to far left/right side, not along bore).

 

In addition, previous RDM (came before RDI) was already roll stabilised, have a read: https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1983/1983%20-%200550.PDF

That`s a very good indication proving that RDI is also, after all, this is something that is wanted in a Fighter (or any aircraft that has a search radar). Who would want to remove such a feature from old equipment when building new?

 

As a side note, for those interested in more info on M2000C from around time of its arrival: https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1980/1980%20-%201641.html

Edited November 8, 2016 by zerO_crash