Deciding between the Mig-21 and M2000C

[Gladman]

If your inclined towards the Hornet then I would suspect the M2000 would be your option. The Mig is awesome but its a 60's aircraft. Big frickin teeth but still a 60's aircraft. The M2000 will have a decent radar and some good missiles at both short and medium range. Faster for sure. Basic AG to boot.

[tingri]

M2000 can run the Mig-21 into the dirt 99.99999% of the time. So can the F-4, ask Gen Olds.

 

Why don't we ask Nguyễn Văn Cốc he has more then twice combat kills (of United States aircraft in Vietnam War with Mig-21) then Robin Olds or the IAF fighters in the Cope India 2004 air exercise who defeated US airforce F-15s with their Mig-21 Bisons.

Edited December 7, 2015 by tingri

[Kev2go]

If your inclined towards the Hornet then I would suspect the M2000 would be your option. The Mig is awesome but its a 60's aircraft. Big frickin teeth but still a 60's aircraft. The M2000 will have a decent radar and some good missiles at both short and medium range. Faster for sure. Basic AG to boot.

 

 

early 70s technically since the BIS model of the mig21 entered service in 1972.:smilewink: :smartass:

[Kev2go]

Why don't we ask Nguyễn Văn Cốc he has more then twice combat kills (of United States aircraft in Vietnam War with Mig-21) then Robin Olds or the IAF fighters in the Cope India 2004 air exercise who defeated US airforce F-15s with their Mig-21 Bisons.

 

Its pilot skill + tactics that matters more than the machine thats why.

 

I mean the 60s, is not a really good time for USAF pilots because they had not been training WVR dogfighting ( or at least very minimally). and Initial F4 B/C/D phantom variants had no guns. so they were hopeless if they ran out missiles. gunpods fits were a more of a interim solution, and were not as accurate as internal guns. plus nothing good can come out of trying to turnfight more agile planes with heavier ones.

 

 

in 2012, german piloted Euofighters reportedly downed F22's in a Dogfight in 2012 during a Red flag Exercise.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Kev2go

[Gladman]

Wow, thats picky.

[Flogger23m]

Its pilot skill + tactics that matters more than the machine thats why.

 

I mean the 60s, is not a really good time for USAF pilots because they had not been training WVR dogfighting ( or at least very minimally). and Initial F4 B/C/D phantom variants had no guns. so they were hopeless if they ran out missiles. gunpods fits were a more of a interim solution, and were not as accurate as internal guns. plus nothing good can come out of trying to turnfight more agile planes with heavier ones.

 

 

in 2012, german piloted Euofighters reportedly downed F22's in a Dogfight in 2012 during a Red flag Exercise.

 

And North Vietnamese fighters didn't have radars aside from a few later war MIG-21s. Some of which deleted the cannon to make room for it. The standard MIG-21, the F-13, only had 35 rounds in the cannon and two short range missiles. That is not a typo. The ace referenced mainly shot down bombers, not modern fighters.

 

MIG-21s are horribly out dated. The only reason people on this forum attributed super-hero like status to them is because they are emotionally attached to them. Just like the A-10. I'm sure when the Mirage 2000C comes out people will be doing the same thing, claiming it is just on par with the Rafale or F-22.

 

Also the Eurofighters didn't win in a fair fight. Read up on the artificial restrictions placed on the F-22s which resulted in some mock kills.

 

There are few fighter aircraft I don't like. I do like the MIG-21 a lot because it is a classic but we have to be realistic. It is very outdated even in its most modern form.

[OnlyforDCS]

Why does every thread have to devolve into who thinks which fighter is better?? What are all of you thirteen? Did any of you read the original poster's question? It's not about which fighter is better in real life, it's about which modules he should get and why. And a "better module" doesn't need to translate into more capable module. If you need to discuss which aircraft is more capable make a M2000C vs Mig21 thread or something....

Edited December 8, 2015 by OnlyforDCS

[Hadwell]

I don't think it's so much "what one is better" but more like... what one is better in what situation, against what planes, or in realism, or in quality, there are lots of different things that can be better or worse for different reasons...

 

I'd say to get the mig-21 now, because it's a known quantity, everyone knows it's a high quality module and worth every penny and then once the M2000C comes, and we can see it for ourselves, then buy it.

 

Assuming one has to choose between one or the other right now, as in today, that's the logical choice.

 

that way you don't have to wait months to play with a new toy, and by then can probably afford the m2000c.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Hadwell

[Swordfish]

The MiG 21 is not great against the more modern fighters. However I find it an incredibly good module. If you play SP, it is very easy to go up against matched opponents. MP is more difficult but you can make it work.

I very much enjoy ground attack in the MiG. It is tough, but very rewarding. There also is not shitloads of buttons and systems to learn, its about flying it well which I enjoy more.

[pagadi-zaiet]

Frames are poor with Mig, although detail is great. I will go for Miraje...I got them both, could not resist it LoL !

[Swordfish]

Frames are poor with Mig, although detail is great. I will go for Miraje...I got them both, could not resist it LoL !

 

 

I also find the MiG has the worst FPS.

[Fred00]

I also find the MiG has the worst FPS.

It also has the most photo-realistic looking cockpit with amazing attention to detail. It comes at a price.

[Jackdaws]

I love the mig 21. It's lots of fun! It feels heavy and seems more real than most of the other planes. Like most said the M2000C is not here yet! I'm sure it will be great, but I think the mig will be hard to beat! Can you not buy both?? :)

[LennysCopilot]

The MiG-22 has given me hours of enjoyment, and many of those hours were spent just trying to learn how to start up, take off, and land. Only now am I getting into the weapons systems. I don't know much at all about modern aircraft (all of my simming time has been with Il-2 1946 and Rise of Flight), but the DCS MiG-21bis is a delightful module. I paid full price for it, and it was worth every penny.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kev2go]

And North Vietnamese fighters didn't have radars aside from a few later war MIG-21s. Some of which deleted the cannon to make room for it. The standard MIG-21, the F-13, only had 35 rounds in the cannon and two short range missiles. That is not a typo. The ace referenced mainly shot down bombers, not modern fighters.

 

MIG-21s are horribly out dated. The only reason people on this forum attributed super-hero like status to them is because they are emotionally attached to them. Just like the A-10. I'm sure when the Mirage 2000C comes out people will be doing the same thing, claiming it is just on par with the Rafale or F-22.

 

Also the Eurofighters didn't win in a fair fight. Read up on the artificial restrictions placed on the F-22s which resulted in some mock kills.

 

There are few fighter aircraft I don't like. I do like the MIG-21 a lot because it is a classic but we have to be realistic. It is very outdated even in its most modern form.

 

 

 

 

but the a10 is an exceptional platform what it was designed to do, specially since its a relatively inexpensive platform. Bust Tanks and provide CAS to the Troops. A10' "C" upgrades modernised it, gave it greater capabilities and thus still relevant into the 21st century.

 

perhaps if it was still stuck serving with older tech i would agree with the conclusion that those supporting the existence of the a10, it just being emotional attachment.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

I don't think it's so much "what one is better" but more like... what one is better in what situation, against what planes, or in realism, or in quality, there are lots of different things that can be better or worse for different reasons...

 

I'd say to get the mig-21 now, because it's a known quantity, everyone knows it's a high quality module and worth every penny and then once the M2000C comes, and we can see it for ourselves, then buy it.

 

Assuming one has to choose between one or the other right now, as in today, that's the logical choice.

 

that way you don't have to wait months to play with a new toy, and by then can probably afford the m2000c.

 

months? not really more like 2 weeks (3 max) by this point. the developers said they are going for a mid december release. certainly before Christmas Holidays.

 

Its already been in pre purchase since September

[okieordie78]

The only complex fast mover out right now is the Mig21. I'm not sure about the Mirage, but if I remember right in the announcement, it will only have an SFM upon release with either AFM or EFM released later. (Which is disappointing...but, what can ya do?) I know the trainers are out, but I'm not counting those.

[OnlyforDCS]

The only complex fast mover out right now is the Mig21. I'm not sure about the Mirage, but if I remember right in the announcement, it will only have an SFM upon release with either AFM or EFM released later. (Which is disappointing...but, what can ya do?) I know the trainers are out, but I'm not counting those.

 

Zeus (the developer) recently mentioned that the EFM is ready for a beta release, and will be available in the initial beta release. I only pre-ordered the Mirage once I read that. (I don't fly planes with SFMs).

[TheKrayTwin]

Good decision on getting the mig-21. It's the only module you will think about when waking up in the morning. I would get the M2000c at a later date if you can only get one of the two choices.

[Vectury]

Purchased the Mig-21 with no regrets :) I figure I'll wait and see how the Mirage pans out; I'm sure it will be excellent. Thanks for your input, everyone.

 

You won't be disappointed! The module is a little masterpiece. Enjoy it :pilotfly:

[AMEDooley]

but the a10 is an exceptional platform what it was designed to do, specially since its a relatively inexpensive platform. Bust Tanks and provide CAS to the Troops. A10' "C" upgrades modernised it, gave it greater capabilities and thus still relevant into the 21st century.

 

perhaps if it was still stuck serving with older tech i would agree with the conclusion that those supporting the existence of the a10, it just being emotional attachment.

 

Even with the upgrades the A-10 is obsolete. Is it really good at CAS? Yes it is. But so is the F-16 and F/A-18. And with the F-35 coming out it is becoming more obsolete. Those planes are just as good as the A-10 except for loitering time. But with tanker support its really a moot point. People want to keep the A-10 for emotional reasons, not sound judgement. Even Air Force Generals are say the same thing.

[OnlyforDCS]

Even with the upgrades the A-10 is obsolete. Is it really good at CAS? Yes it is. But so is the F-16 and F/A-18. And with the F-35 coming out it is becoming more obsolete. Those planes are just as good as the A-10 except for loitering time. But with tanker support its really a moot point. People want to keep the A-10 for emotional reasons, not sound judgement. Even Air Force Generals are say the same thing.

 

Guys, this discussion does not belong in this thread :)

[Kev2go]

Even with the upgrades the A-10 is obsolete. Is it really good at CAS? Yes it is. But so is the F-16 and F/A-18. And with the F-35 coming out it is becoming more obsolete. Those planes are just as good as the A-10 except for loitering time. But with tanker support its really a moot point. People want to keep the A-10 for emotional reasons, not sound judgement. Even Air Force Generals are say the same thing.

 

Yes your right the airforce needs to cut back the a10s to pay for its it's overly expensive toys like the f35...

 

You can't always afford to drop bombs close to troops. The A10 has a 30mm Gatling gun. F16/ f18 are better as strike fighters, than being cas platform.

 

Sorry but a10 isn't obselete for its intended role. Unless us goes to war against a high tech foe current a10 is good enough against insurgents or against poorer armies. The option to create an advanced follow on aircraft based on the a10 exists. You know sort of how the hornet evolved into the more advanced super hornet?

 

But yes ultimately the usaf likes its sexier fast expensive toys suxh as the likes of the f35 and the politicians feel obliged to purchase them. Because defense industry are big contributors to Party campaigns.

 

Seeing how expensive the f35 is I doubt it be flying low. Can't take the beating an a10 can nor would they let it's since it too expensive risk being put in a situation were it could be expended

Edited December 9, 2015 by Kev2go

[Zomba]

Good stuff with getting the Mig-21. it's a visceral and fun aircraft to fly. LN have done an awesome job realising this historic aircraft. If all you're looking for is whatever can dominate the sky then it's not for you. However if you're looking for a memorable and rewarding challenge that gives you a real sense of achievement, then the Mig fits the bill.

 

Whether you are shaking your head at the interesting Russian ergonomics of the cockpit, weighing up if you can make that Mach 2 dash, communicating your hate for the radar's limitations on an alternate mental frequency, or splashing that "Superior" enemy fighter from the sky; the Mig is a milestone DCS aircraft. It's one of those modules that really shows what DCS can do.

[MikeHunt]

Got the MiG-21, wondering whether to splash $48 before the cut-off on the Mirage.

 

How does the Super 530D compare to the AIM-7M/R-27R, is it really that equal?