S530 Range

[zxarkov]

Bottom line, is there consensus about the S530s range, for whatever reasons, is less than what it should be vs real world data?

 

If yes, will it be addressed?

[Ktulu2]

Bottom line, is there consensus about the S530s range, for whatever reasons, is less than what it should be vs real world data?

 

If yes, will it be addressed?

 

In the forum there is. Now whether ED believes it...It's always hard to convince ED that their missiles are wrong.

[jojo]

I would be happy with AIM-7M performance for Super 530D (and I'm not easy to please :lol:)

 

Right now it's seriously underperforming...

[OnlyforDCS]

It's always hard to convince ED that their missiles are wrong.

 

This. Although there are some good quotes here, I doubt ED will consider changing it purely based on them. I really don't understand why they take such a hard line on this, especially as I doubt that they have better information than what has been presented here and after all is said and done it is a game we are talking about and there are a lot of knowledgeable people here (who are also customers) who are talking about changes which will hardly make the Super530D the best missile in the game.

 

I for one feel that ED doesn't want the Mirage to completely overshadow the Mig21. Yes the dreaded "b" word again...This is purely my opinion of course, and it may very well be wrong.

Edited December 31, 2015 by OnlyforDCS

[OxideMako]

The AIM-7MH (the missile modeled in game) is likely on-par with the 530 in terms of electronics (at least, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference without a lot more details).

I would expect the 530 to fly a bit further though - Raero for 7F/M is 53nm at 40k with M1.4, co-alt-co-speed-no-maneuver head-on engagement.

That's almost 100km.

 

I think we all agree on that!:D

 

If we can convince ED of this it would be great, but given how hard it is to find solid numbers on this kind of stuff, is it even possible? It seems like IASGATG and Sedenion's findings are as close as we can get right now.

[GGTharos]

Nope, that ain't it.

 

I for one feel that ED doesn't want the Mirage to completely overshadow the Mig21. Yes the dreaded "b" word again...This is purely my opinion of course, and it may very well be wrong.

[LuSi_6]

With both, target and launch platform closing at Mach 1.4 the AIM-7 does not travel 100km. Just saying...

 

50km for the 530? At what conditions? 25nm kill head on at high alt, high speed is possible ingame

[GGTharos]

It does in RL.

 

With both, target and launch platform closing at Mach 1.4 the AIM-7 does not travel 100km. Just saying...

[RuskyV]

With both, target and launch platform closing at Mach 1.4 the AIM-7 does not travel 100km. Just saying...

 

50km for the 530? At what conditions? 25nm kill head on at high alt, high speed is possible ingame

 

Its not how far or fast "we" can make it go but rather the performance of the missile itself, It's hard not to have varying conditions when firing something from a moving platform, but you need to have a figure in mind (Airspeed) to work with when doing a test just to figure out missile performance. As long as you keep your airspeed the same for however many test you want to do then you can build up a picture of what the missile is doing.

 

The goal is to find out whether the missile under or over performs and i think the collective mind says the 530D is not doing all it should be doing:)

[gospadin]

Also, consider those range figures are from the instant you released the missile, but the launching platform is still moving forward.

 

Mach 1.4 at 20,000' works out to 50km/minute. Two aircraft closing at mach 1.4 would be on top of each other in 1 minute if starting from 100km of range. 30s of burn+glide should be plenty of time to close that gap, given the mach 2.5+ speed of an AIM-7.

[Nealius]

Aside from range, is anyone else having difficulty keeping lock while the missile is in flight or finding that the explosive power of the missile is rather anemic? I've been testing it out against a Tu-95 and my radar will often drop lock with the first missile mid-flight, and while the second missile hits the only thing it does is take half of his vertical stabilizer out. Bear keeps flying....

[emg]

In the forum there is. Now whether ED believes it...It's always hard to convince ED that their missiles are wrong.

 

Didn't Leatherneck themselves make some of the in-game MiG-21 missiles? So I guess any 3rd party dev can always make their own missiles if they are unhappy with the stock missiles.

Or would there be a conflict since the 530D is already in-game?

[King_Hrothgar]

The radar on the Mirage as modeled is highly sensitive to notching. This will cause you to lose lock and thus the missile to lose lock too. It helps if you keep your target above the horizon, but doesn't solve the issue entirely.

[cmbaviator]

The radar on the Mirage as modeled is highly sensitive to notching. This will cause you to lose lock and thus the missile to lose lock too. It helps if you keep your target above the horizon, but doesn't solve the issue entirely.

 

 

What is notching ?

 

 

CMB

 

Sent from Tapatalk

[Nealius]

Notching is when the target is moving 90 degrees relative to where your nose is pointing. In correct brevity it is actually "beaming" when a target does it. "Notching" is when you yourself do it.

 

I just tested the S530 against a Tu-95 with the same results as always. First hit did zero damage. Second hit blew off his left horizontal stabilizer and the top half of the vertical stabilizer and he diverted to the nearest airfield.

 

Each and every time the result is the same: a solid S530 hit will do no more than mess up his tail and send him running home.

[Para_Bellum]

I just tested the S530 against a Tu-95 with the same results as always. First hit did zero damage. Second hit blew off his left horizontal stabilizer and the top half of the vertical stabilizer and he diverted to the nearest airfield.

 

Each and every time the result is the same: a solid S530 hit will do no more than mess up his tail and send him running home.

 

I did set up a training mission with a single Tu-95 and a single Super 530 killed it pretty much every time when engaging from a head-on direction.

[Nealius]

 

This is what I end up with almost every time, whether it be the S530 or the Magic. I've only managed a solid missile kill once.

[Slipp]

The radar on the Mirage as modeled is highly sensitive to notching. This will cause you to lose lock and thus the missile to lose lock too. It helps if you keep your target above the horizon, but doesn't solve the issue entirely.

 

Yup, too sensitive.

 

A slight change in course and you loose lock.

[Para_Bellum]

 

This is what I end up with almost every time, whether it be the S530 or the Magic. I've only managed a solid missile kill once.

 

That's really weird. I just did 4 tests, killed the Tu-95 every time with a single Super 530. Usually explosion ripped off a wing but even when the damage seemed light the Tu would go down and crash.

[Nealius]

Here are the results from three tests I just did:

 

1: First 530 aunched at 14nm, hot. Hit but not destroyed. Second 530 launched at 3.3nm, cold. Hit, but still not destroyed.

 

2: First 530 launched at 13.4nm, lost radar lock just prior to impact. Second shot was with a Magic at 0.5nm, cold. Hit but not destroyed.

 

3: First 530 launched at 11nm, flanking, lost radar lock. Second 530 launched at 2.8nm, cold. Hit but not destroyed.

 

It takes a minimum of two missiles for me. At this point I should just stick to guns.

[sedenion]

Some comparisons.

 

TNT load:

AIM-7: 40 kg

R-27: 39 kg

S-530D: 32 kg

 

AIM-9: 9.4 kg

R-73: 7.4 kg

Magic: 12.5 kg

 

( S-530D should be little bit less effective, but don't know if the current modelisation is outragously downgraded or not... but IT IS for the Magic. )

Edited January 2, 2016 by sedenion

[Brisse]

The Magic is 13kg warhead in DCS. You can look in the lua files. There's more than the size that matters though, because there are three types of AA warheads in DCS. Simple, enhanced and directional. Magic 2 is configured as simple.

 

Edit: The Super 530D is configured as 27kg simple warhead in DCS. AIM-7M and R-27 are 39kg simple warhead.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Brisse

[sedenion]

The Magic is 13kg warhead in DCS. You can look in the lua files. There's more than the size that matters though, becouse there are three types of AA warheads in DCS. Simple, enhanced and directional. Magic 2 is configured as simple.

 

Haha ! oky i understand now... So in game we have a kind of Magic 1...

[sedenion]

I guess Simple / Advanced / Directionnal stands for proximity fuse. You confirm that ?

[Brisse]

I guess Simple / Advanced / Directionnal stands for proximity fuse. You confirm that ?

 

I think that's the point, but the simulation is simplified/abstracted. Simple is some sort of baseline and then the others just act the same but with a multiplier applied on the explosive mass.