Mk-82/ Mk-82SE = CCIP/ CCRP...why ?

[jojo]

I see a lot of people complaining about the design, why do we have that f... CCRP for Mk-82 and CCIP for Mk-82 Snake Eye ???

 

First: what is M-2000 C CCRP ?

 

This is not what you know from US plane like F-15E, F-16 or Hornet/ Super Hornet.

 

M-2000 C CCRP is not about blind bombing above the clouds, you have to see your target, aim through the HUD with diamond for ranging, then pull up and press trigger to release during the climb.

 

Currently this is problematic because the bombs are released when you press the trigger no matter what.

In final state, you will press and hold the trigger during the pull up, and the system will release the bomb at the right time, most likely during the climb.

 

Why this complicated system ?

 

Don't think about the bomb, think about the mission and the threat level...

 

Defended target:

That CCRP is designed to offer some stand off release range, and protect you from MANPADS, small arms fire, AAA...

You can dive from medium altitude or perform Pop Up attack with this technic and it's quite dynamic profile.

 

"Soft" target:

CCIP is used with high drag bombs, to perform low level attack (between 200ft and 500ft), with fast and level delivery. You should be able to push to 500kt+ even with wing tanks and 4 bombs.

The best move here is to release everything in one pass, as you don't want to circle around at 300ft, this is highly dangerous to re-attack a warned target !!!

 

That's the way it is in M-2000C.

 

Finally M-2000 C RDI is not Hornet. It's first a fighter, but can carry most of French AG ordnance, unguided weapon when delivered, later in its life with GBU-12/16/24 for buddy lasing.

 

So it's like MiG 29, but the navigation system will offer more flexibility, with the capacity to update flight plan in the cockpit.

[statrekmike]

Well said, the M-2000C is not a bomber so its abilities in that arena are fairly basic, this makes sense, France has other planes that do the job better so naturally those aircraft would have more delivery options.

[grunf]

 

"Soft" target:

CCIP is used with high drag bombs, to perform low level attack (between 200ft and 500ft), with fast and level delivery. You should be able to push to 500kt+ even with wing tanks and 4 bombs.

The best move here is to release everything in one pass, as you don't want to circle around at 300ft, this is highly dangerous to re-attack a warned target !!!

This is a great way to drop bombs! :D

[TomCatMucDe]

in fact, the CCRP in the Mirage is called CCIP 3/9 Mil in the A10C

[PiedDroit]

in fact, the CCRP in the Mirage is called CCIP 3/9 Mil in the A10C

I never quite understood why they were calling it like this, because in my mind,

CCIP = shows were the bombs would impact if you were to release now, and

CCRP = designate a target and let the system tell you when to release in order to hit that target.

So the CCIP consent 3/9 (or 5 mils) of the A-10C is actually a CCRP mode :music_whistling:

Anyway, I agree with OP's explanation, the attack profile or either bombs naturally call for a specific mode, CCRP or CCIP, which make perfect sense.

 

People complain and says they prefer CCIP because the CCRP is not working to it's fullest (automatic release), but once this is sorted out, I bet everyone will love it :thumbup:

[TomCatMucDe]

I agree with the opening as well.

In practice why would you use a high drag bomb in CCRP? And it's safer to have a high drag one CCIP to have the time to disengage.

 

I think when the accuracy in both modes is fixed we will enjoy the French philosophy behind it

[joey45]

Can you change between ccip and ccrp?

[jojo]

Can you change between ccip and ccrp?

 

No.

 

High drag bomb = CCIP

Low drag bomb = CCRP

 

You don't have hand on it.

[gospadin]

I agree with the opening as well.

In practice why would you use a high drag bomb in CCRP? And it's safer to have a high drag one CCIP to have the time to disengage.

 

I think when the accuracy in both modes is fixed we will enjoy the French philosophy behind it

 

Because CCRP lets you drop on targets that are below your line of sight.

 

A high drag bomb is intended *exactly* for that use case, where the bombers are only 100-200' above the deck, and the drag of the bomb prevents them from taking damage.

 

Now that I know that the French simply named them backwards, I'm okay with it. Given the lack of a truly accurate designator, it makes sense why you can't CCRP stuff that isn't within radar line-of-sight.

[PiedDroit]

Because CCRP lets you drop on targets that are below your line of sight.

A high drag bomb is intended *exactly* for that use case, where the bombers are only 100-200' above the deck, and the drag of the bomb prevents them from taking damage.

That is true for an A-10, but in the case of a fast mover, you will see the impact point of your high drag bomb when flying low.

So CCIP makes sense.

 

Now that I know that the French simply named them backwards, I'm okay with it.

What was named backwards? There is no confusion with CCIP or CCRP at least, CCIP is CCIP as we know it and CCRP is indeed CCRP.

[TomCatMucDe]

Mk-82/ Mk-82SE = CCIP/ CCRP...why ?

 

Because CCRP lets you drop on targets that are below your line of sight.

 

 

 

A high drag bomb is intended *exactly* for that use case, where the bombers are only 100-200' above the deck, and the drag of the bomb prevents them from taking damage.

 

 

 

Now that I know that the French simply named them backwards, I'm okay with it. Given the lack of a truly accurate designator, it makes sense why you can't CCRP stuff that isn't within radar line-of-sight.

 

 

But if you can do that in CCIP as well. you can level and see the popper on your hug all the way. I did it myself. All what you need is to be fast enough, around 500 knots. I believe it's also more accurate than CCRP.

[joey45]

No.

 

High drag bomb = CCIP

Low drag bomb = CCRP

 

You don't have hand on it.

 

Thanks.

[tusler]

Yes But...

 

It has been established that the preferred profile for this acft is 20k feet for dogfight and self defense. So it does not make sense that this plane would be down in the weeds dropping bombs where it is most vulnerable to attack from defending fighters.:music_whistling:

Unless it has a Fighter escort of say F16's or Harriers or something like that. But then i would think in that scenario the M2000C would be high cover for eith the F16 or Harrier because they are better mud movers.

I'm going back in my closet now, I have confused myself...:surrender:

[jojo]

Basically, the same airframe is used for low level/ high speed penetration (Mirage 2000N/ Mirage 2000D).

 

Delta wing loves high speed, it's not easy target at low altitude either.

 

There's an old French TV show where you can see 2 pilots in Red Flag, Mirage 2000N and Aggressor F-16 pilots.

 

The F-16 pilot failed to intercept Mirage 2000N and was even virtually shot down by them.

 

So even if F-16 is better on paper in low altitude, the M-2000 is still dangerous...

 

 

And yes, bombers need escort, no matter what type.

[Erk104]

I have found that Dive bombing with CCRP actually is very accurate.:pilotfly:

[Paradox]

The French mode of tactical bombing does very much seem to be conducted as close to the ground as physically possible so really these modes do make sense with the weapons that use them

 

When we get the proper release mode for CCRP I'm really keen to do some toss bombing. The plane does carry a respectable amount of bombs so we should really be able to lay down some hatred from surprisingly long distances especially in formations at low level.

 

I'm really quite keen on this

[jojo]

I have found that Dive bombing with CCRP actually is very accurate.:pilotfly:

 

M2000 CCRP is not designed for level release.

it's designed to designate during the dive and release during pull up.

 

it still needs refinement...

[jojo]

The French mode of tactical bombing does very much seem to be conducted as close to the ground as physically possible so really these modes do make sense with the weapons that use them

 

When we get the proper release mode for CCRP I'm really keen to do some toss bombing. The plane does carry a respectable amount of bombs so we should really be able to lay down some hatred from surprisingly long distances especially in formations at low level.

 

I'm really quite keen on this

 

A special mode exist for toss bombing.

But you need INS programmation to operate it. So not yet.

 

However don't expect direct hit with that. CEP will be X0 meters.

[Paradox]

CEP in the double digits for toss bombing up to 8 Mk. 82s is pretty good in my opinion!

[jojo]

CEP in the double digits for toss bombing up to 8 Mk. 82s is pretty good in my opinion!

 

Yes, but we would need better frag radius effect in DCS World I think.

Because the last time I checked, a bomb next to a truck does next to nothing.

I hope to be wrong for once, mabe already taken care of...

[okieordie78]

I sill feel the CCIP/CCRP for the 82 and 82s is backwards...doesn't feel right. But who am I?

[Frederf]

Bomb delivery in the Mirage is quite accurate currently provided the radio altimeter is functioning and the terrain is flat (radio height = height above target). Normally the FCR is the primary source of slant range to pipper but that's not in right now.

 

The thing about AIRs is that the TOF has to be pretty short to be acceptably accurate with a few as 4 bombs. That means in a dive and low which all points to a CCIP-type delivery mode. You might also be pleased to know that it doesn't take much dive angle to get solution on HUD. The speed curve is very sharp, too low and they're basically slicks, too high and it's like parachuting men. The range where AIR does its job properly is relatively narrow.

 

Low drag bombs have a much more predicable ballistics and can be accurate over much longer distances which means a stand off dive, level, or even toss are options.

 

The distinction makes perfect sense to me. Hopefully we'll stop having to manually time our releases with a moving HUD symbol like cavemen soon.

[il_corleone]

Bombing in the Mirage is quite effecitve is you know how to, inside its limitations.

[JughedJones]

Bomb delivery in the Mirage is quite accurate currently provided the radio altimeter is functioning and the terrain is flat (radio height = height above target). Normally the FCR is the primary source of slant range to pipper but that's not in right now.

 

The thing about AIRs is that the TOF has to be pretty short to be acceptably accurate with a few as 4 bombs. That means in a dive and low which all points to a CCIP-type delivery mode. You might also be pleased to know that it doesn't take much dive angle to get solution on HUD. The speed curve is very sharp, too low and they're basically slicks, too high and it's like parachuting men. The range where AIR does its job properly is relatively narrow.

 

Low drag bombs have a much more predicable ballistics and can be accurate over much longer distances which means a stand off dive, level, or even toss are options.

 

The distinction makes perfect sense to me. Hopefully we'll stop having to manually time our releases with a moving HUD symbol like cavemen soon.

 

 

With respect to the bolded:

 

Why is it that timing the release is even a thing? If the computer knows that the most accurate possibility is if you hit the pickle when it gets to the line... why doesn't it just do it?

 

I would understand it as a game design, but that's not what this is. the A-10 does that too, right?

 

What's the reasoning?

[Flagrum]

What's the reasoning?

--> "WIP", Work in progress by Razbam, afaik.