T-Rudder "clone" Mk.II

[Sokol1_br]

Like VKB "Mk" tradition, the Chinese put out a new revision. :D

 

 

https://world.taobao.com/item/525833550184.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.lxzKtD

Edited July 29, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[98abaile]

Decent price too.

[cichlidfan]

At that price, I am tempted to order a set, just to see if they are any good.

[NeilWillis]

I don't have a yen for them :music_whistling:

 

I hate to see intellectual rights like this abused. They may be cheap, but buying them puts future projects by the designers in jeopardy.

 

My advice - boycott them!

[cichlidfan]

I don't have a yen for them :music_whistling:

 

I hate to see intellectual rights like this abused. They may be cheap, but buying them puts future projects by the designers in jeopardy.

 

My advice - boycott them!

 

If the folks at VKB have not copyrighted or patented anything then nothing is being violated and it's VKB who put themselves in the situation by leaving themselves open.

[NeilWillis]

Have you seen the amount of work involved in filing a patent?

 

It is a sorry state of afairs though that even patents, copyrights etc don't stop the pirating - which is what copying any design - patents pending or not - though of course, in some circumstances, you can actually get into difficulties yourself if you import goods that aren't cosher for a great many reasons.

 

Bottom line though, in a very small community like this, we have a moral duty to help the intrepid developers - we sure as hell don't have any reason to encourage plagiarism, copyright theft, or clones of recognised and respected products.

 

Or would you also encourage the piracy of DCS software? Because fundamentally, what is the distinction here?

 

Your passing the blame onto the struggling entrepreneurs for not spending a fortune protecting the unprotectable is very questionable cichlidfan. Patent or not, every designer owns the copyright of anything he comes up with - unless someone else beat him to it. As such, in most countries he could pursue the people making and selling clones like this with the full weight of the law on his side.

 

Trouble is, the Far-Eastern markets and governments don't uphold international law very well, hence the constant influx of couterfeit goods.

 

So, no matter what you say, buying this stuff is morally and intellectually wrong. You may even be supporting organised crime in extreme cases!

[Bearfoot]

If the folks at VKB have not copyrighted or patented anything then nothing is being violated and it's VKB who put themselves in the situation by leaving themselves open.

 

Spirit vs. letter of the law. :(

 

VKB is showing major innovation and commitment to developing hardware for a very niche international market. And their hardware is high-quality in a niche market that is dominated by substandard products (Saitek, and yes, even TM). Yes, you are not breaking the law by buying parasite-goods like this. And more than likely, nothing in the world will break either (though, as VKB has clearly stated, the development and release of the Gunfighter is contingent on the sales of the current products; and VKB is not some giant like Sony that can absorb a parasite load without worry).

 

But, at the end of the day, legal or not, you are cutting the belly of a good fish to feed a parasite.

 

And that's a shame.

 

Your money, your choice, of course.

 

But the "it's legal, so it's OK" argument is, frankly, petty and even disingenuous in that it occludes the point of the patent: to protect innovation.

 

Better just say, "hey, my money, my choice".

 

Sorry, no offense meant. But IP theft is IP theft, even if the "P" is not legally defined, and if we are gong to support it, let's just call it for what it is.

[hegykc]

There's nothing to patent here regarding mechanical parts, and there's no point in patenting design as they only need a minuscule change to avoid it. On top of that, patents mean s**t in China. I mean they're copying Mercedes and Rolls Royce and they can't do anything about it. Same goes for anything I make too. It's all just a bunch of mechanical linkages and machined parts. Nothing ground braking or patent-able. I would love nothing more to be protected like that, but I cannot patent any of this. Unless you protect actual drawings and design, but as I said, a couple of mm here and there and they avoid it. You only give them access to make the copy faster by publishing the design patents.

 

If you think this should be patent-able, then MFG should sue Slew device and Baur, who first made the cam design, and double cam design should sue everyone, including VKB. Unfortunately for us, all these mechanical linkages and joints exists from before and is nothing ground braking nor patent-able. It might be ground braking to us simmers, who have not had a good product since forever, but in the engineering world it's all common knowledge and anyone with the ability can give it a try.

 

Having said that, this has to be the worst Chinese copy I've ever seen There's better looking stuff people make by hand in their garage. Why are the foot rests anodized neon blue?? The only thing that's actually covered by your feet and cannot even be seen While the rest of it is ugly, bare aluminum grey :) Why are the rod linkages not directly on the pedal arms? Instead they're on some kind of plastic sheet? Yeah that will feel real sturdy under your feet :) I wouldn't touch this over VKB's professional look and sturdy build. Those rc dampers can't hold a Warthog grip in place, I can only imagine how these would feel on your foot. What's inside, a potentiometer? I'm all about lower prices, but stay away from this flimsy garbage and support VKB.

Save

Edited July 29, 2016 by hegykc

[cichlidfan]

What's inside, a potentiometer?

 

No. Hall sensors.

[hegykc]

No. Hall sensors.

 

Don't even be tempted. I have 4 of those rc dampers on my warthog spring testing rig, and they can't hold the grip upright without custom springs. If anyone can make cheaper but better pedals of this design, or at least close to the original quality, more power to them. But these are not it. They're a 175$ cheaper because they're a 175$ worse. I guarantee you'll be dumping $$ into them to make them usable.

[cichlidfan]

Don't even be tempted. I have 4 of those rc dampers on my warthog spring testing rig, and they can't hold the grip upright without custom springs. If anyone can make cheaper but better pedals of this design, or at least close to the original quality, more power to them. But these are not it. They're a 175$ cheaper because they're a 175$ worse. I guarantee you'll be dumping $$ into them to make them usable.

 

You are probably correct in that assessment. I am quite happy with my Crosswinds, anyway. Either way, they are just as legitimate a product as any other pedals out there, whether they look similar to VKB's or not.

[hansangb]

The fake Apple store was pretty outrageous. As was the fake Disneyland.

[Sokol1_br]

In this case you guys should not buy controllers with CAM center system from MFG, Slaw, VKB, because all are "inspired" by BAUR idea. :)

 

...then MFG should sue Slew device and Baur.

 

BAUR CAM usage - single and double - precedes MFG, but before him someone in Sukoi.ry use in custom DIY stick.

This in joystick world, because Boeing use similar system in feedback system for rudder of their models. :)

As well DIY pedals with operation similar to T-Rudder.

 

What's inside, a potentiometer?

 

Nope, TLE5011 "magnet resistence" contactless sensor working in digital mode in 10 or 12 bits, connected in Arduino+MMJoy2 firmware - that should not be used in commercial products per his GNU license... in a "perfect world". :)

 

http://cs631423.vk.me/v631423229/22173/KKV95GnNsxI.jpg

 

The guy that make this "things" in China is "flight simmer" (if this say anything) and seem sell VKB products there.

 

IMO - That pedal looks more "consistent" than the new TFRP, good use of bicycle parts and car pedals pads (available in several colors) and curiosly T-Rudder Mk.I use the same kind of bearing support :)

Edited July 30, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Kornskydiver]

Either way, im sure they are better than saitek lol!

[Sokol1_br]

Interesting what GT say about the adverting in Taobao:

 

" Fei Ye Aviation Technology metal rudder pedals have original design for entry-level flying friends invest as little as possible to experience the fun of flight simulation.

 

High-end players and perfectionist (should) select finished commercial rudder pedals." :lol:

 

Feedback for improve the pedal are welcome. ;)

 

This pedal looks the "grandpa" of the one in OP:

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTU5NjMxNTU2.html?from=y1.2-1-99.3.5-1.1-1-1-4-0

 

Not related, but "Chinese":

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQ2NjczNDY5Ng==.html

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTI3MTQ4MTY4.html?from=y1.2-1-103.3.1-2.1-1-1-0-0

 

Don't droll over the keyboard. :)

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQxMTUwNTE4MA==.html

Edited July 30, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Sokol1_br]

Video, "Mk.I" (without damper):

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTUzMDMxOTYyMA==.html?from=s1.8-1-1.2

 

"Mk.II" (with damper):

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTYwNjAxNjUyMA==.html?from=s1.8-1-1.2

Edited September 6, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Bourrinopathe]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing Sokol1 ;)

It looks like a decent DIY project. Are these crank arms?

 

I won't bet on their long-term reliability and accuracy though.

At least it's a rather cheap solution.

[Sokol1_br]

Yes, Bicycle crank arms and Tuning pads for car pedals, pillow block bearings, think that Nylon arm where ball joins arm are bolted is from some commercial product too.

 

This is the real T-Rudder Mk.I DIY "clone": :)

 

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5550/14227059217_7e36a6eabf_c.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2901/14410137801_fbf7f3420b_c.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2913/14412345894_a6ba6dcd63_c.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3880/14261505920_978cc3a32a_c.jpg

 

Brother of that "Guitar stick":

 

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7652/27903000621_86daa5a317_z.jpg

 

I think I will try this R/C dampers of "China's clone" in my T-Rudder. :)

Edited July 30, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Scared Donut]

I am really tempted to buy this. I am poor af atm... can't really afford to spend another $500.

[Warhog]

I am really tempted to buy this. I am poor af atm... can't really afford to spend another $500.

 

I would be carefull... Those pedals, according to his dimensions, are really small. 12" x 8" overall. Just the width alone appears to be uncomfortablely narrow.

 

Cut out a piece of paper that size, throw it on the ground in front of you. I think you will be surprised.

[Socket7]

base made of some box tubing and some standardized mounting rail.

 

Pedal shafts look suspiciously like a wrench. (edit: someone else nailed it, they are bicycle pedals. )

 

I really do envy how easily the chinese get a hold of raw parts. I don't know where I'd get those end cap joints that connect the pedals to the hall sensor in the middle.

 

Probably works better than CH pedals, but not by much. Gonna have a nasty center spot like the CH do they have the same tension design.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Socket7

[neoshi]

I think the failure point of this clone will be those plastic interface plates between the "wrench" arms and the spring connections. Not really sure what to call these calls really lol.

[rrohde]

Looking at this thing makes me realize how much I like VKB's actual gear. :thumbup:

[Sokol1_br]

Originally Posted by Sokol1_br View Post

Video, "Mk.I" (without damper):

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTUzMD...rom=s1.8-1-1.2

 

Man that looks tragic...

 

Well, I did the same "test" with my T-Rudder Mk.II and the result was... more loud and "trembling". :lol:

 

If was not complicated buy/pay in Taobao - is need use the service of "Taobao Agent" - I will get one these just to see, latter people there will be happy in buy from my, as Saitek PRO Pedal is sold for "only"... 430$! :hehe: :D

Edited August 1, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Sokol1_br]

:)

 

https://forum.warthunder.ru/uploads/monthly_2016_09/57e19a2868e67_DSC_5516.thumb.JPG.9226fb4676f3e1e3e57ea936bc51845b.JPG

https://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/195458-%D0%B5%D1%89%D1%91-%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8-%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8F-%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B1/