We desperately need more eastern bloc aircraft

[desdinova]

Of the ~20 DCS aircraft currently in development, all are Western. Every single one.

 

There are no less than six western fourth gen. fighters (F/A-18, Typhoon, F-14A/B, M2000C, F-15E, AV-8B) in various stages of development, and possibly a seventh (Polychop Tornado), not to mention the third gen Viggen, Mirage F-1, and Mirage III.

 

REDFOR's only full-fidelity fixed-wing options are the third gen. Mig-21Bis, first gen. Mig-15, and the L-39, a trainer with marginal combat capability.

 

Right now the heart and soul of DCS gameplay is PvP multiplayer because of the lack of a single player or coop dynamic campaign. But the numbers have always skewed towards BLUFOR, and it's only going to get worse as high fidelity, heavily-hyped aircraft like the F-14 enter the scene. In a couple years, we'll be looking at an environment where we have a glut of relatively recent western aircraft and no one to fly them against.

This will quickly become boring.

 

DCS needs more full-fidelity Russian aircraft, especially:

Mig-29 (we're already halfway there!)

Mig-23 (historical rival to the F-14 and a huge part of basically all post-Vietnam air conflicts)

Su-17/20/22 (supersonic 3rd gen. strike aircraft to complement the Viggen and Mirage F1)

 

Aircraft like these would add tremendously to the DCS experience. Considering the success of the Mig-21, they'd probably also sell very well.

[cichlidfan]

Right now the heart and soul of DCS gameplay is PvP multiplayer because of the lack of a single player or coop dynamic campaign.

 

Yet, most DCS owners do not use MP, so I would question your assessment of 'heart and soul'.

[SkateZilla]

Of the ~20 DCS aircraft currently in development, all are Western. Every single one.

 

There are no less than six western fourth gen. fighters (F/A-18, Typhoon, F-14A/B, M2000C, F-15E, AV-8B) in various stages of development, and possibly a seventh (Polychop Tornado), not to mention the third gen Viggen, Mirage F-1, and Mirage III.

 

REDFOR's only full-fidelity fixed-wing options are the third gen. Mig-21Bis, first gen. Mig-15, and the L-39, a trainer with marginal combat capability.

 

Right now the heart and soul of DCS gameplay is PvP multiplayer because of the lack of a single player or coop dynamic campaign. But the numbers have always skewed towards BLUFOR, and it's only going to get worse as high fidelity, heavily-hyped aircraft like the F-14 enter the scene. In a couple years, we'll be looking at an environment where we have a glut of relatively recent western aircraft and no one to fly them against.

This will quickly become boring.

 

DCS needs more full-fidelity Russian aircraft, especially:

Mig-29 (we're already halfway there!)

Mig-23 (historical rival to the F-14 and a huge part of basically all post-Vietnam air conflicts)

Su-17/20/22 (supersonic 3rd gen. strike aircraft to complement the Viggen and Mirage F1)

 

Aircraft like these would add tremendously to the DCS experience. Considering the success of the Mig-21, they'd probably also sell very well.

 

The Eastern Laws regarding military information are prolly a good reason why.,

[desdinova]

The Eastern Laws regarding military information are prolly a good reason why.,

 

All of these aircraft (including the Mig-29 models we have in the game) are no longer in active Russian service, in some cases (Mig-23, Su-17) for decades. They were also all heavily exported in various configurations and information is widely available. The Mig-29G flight manual is available in english in thirty seconds on google.

[agentdarnell]

All of these aircraft (including the Mig-29 models we have in the game) are no longer in active Russian service, in some cases (Mig-23, Su-17) for decades. They were also all heavily exported in various configurations and information is widely available. The Mig-29G flight manual is available in english in thirty seconds on google.

And there are probably a lot of reasons we are not privy to as why we dont have them in the works. We discuss this time and time again and most of us agree. Dont you think the message has come across to ED and the developers. Dont you think if there is a way they would do it?

[Hadwell]

it's funny how all the single-player users say "most people don't play multiplayer"

 

and all the multiplayer users say "most people play multiplayer"

 

The truth is probably somewhere in between, and I bet everyone who plays DCS plays multiplayer at some point, just as everyone who plays multiplayer plays singleplayer at some point...

 

I think, a lot of those that play singleplayer eventually get bored of shooting down SFM AI planes, and want more of a challenge, then move to multiplayer...

 

This being said, what country the plane comes from doesn't matter, but we need more planes that don't rely so much on BVR if there's going to be any reason to have older russian planes....

 

otherwise it's just going to be noobs who think playing battleship or minesweeper (AIM-120 lobbers) while flying an airplane is fun

[cichlidfan]

it's funny how all the single-player users say "most people don't play multiplayer"

 

and all the multiplayer users say "most people play multiplayer"

 

Just look at the MP servers at any given time. Then look at the number of forum users or Steam users. Anyone claiming MP users outnumber SP users can't count.

[Steel Jaw]

Well, tell you what, brother...if we can get ED to cease the development of WW2 planes and focus on modern jets, perhaps it could done.

[Hadwell]

Just look at the MP servers at any given time. Then look at the number of forum users or Steam users. Anyone claiming MP users outnumber SP users can't count.

 

it depends, there are a lot of timezones... different people play at all hours of the day, if you added up each individual person during a 24hr period, it would be a lot more people than the single time you looked... and even more on weekends...

 

so in reality i think its somewhere in between...

[desdinova]

And there are probably a lot of reasons we are not privy to as why we dont have them in the works. We discuss this time and time again and most of us agree. Dont you think the message has come across to ED and the developers. Dont you think if there is a way they would do it?

 

Considering ED has indicated they would like to do a full-fidelity Su-27 eventually and the Mig-29 PFM is coming (after the Spitfire and F-18 ), it's more a question of priorities than technical ability.

 

The only way to influence those priorities are if the community keeps clamoring for what they want. DCS devs do listen to the community (example: RAZBAM and the Pucara). I'm not saying drop the F-18 and the F-14 and do migs now, but they should be next in line.

[SkateZilla]

Considering ED has indicated they would like to do a full-fidelity Su-27 eventually and the Mig-29 PFM is coming (after the Spitfire and F-18 ), it's more a question of priorities than technical ability.

 

The only way to influence those priorities are if the community keeps clamoring for what they want. DCS devs do listen to the community (example: RAZBAM and the Pucara). I'm not saying drop the F-18 and the F-14 and do migs now, but they should be next in line.

 

A PFM, Doesnt Mean it can and would be eventually Full Fidelity..

 

If an Su-27 was ever done, it would likely be an early version,

Pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere already by a dev.

 

Doesnt matter if its active or retired, if the systems are classified, then there's no way around it.

 

The Difference Between a PSM Aircraft (A-10C), and a SSM (FC3) Aircraft are extensive under the hood, it's not just clickable cockpits, it's system complexity, etc etc.

[Silver_Dragon]

Full fidelity Su-27 has not confirmed by ED. The Mig-29 PFM will incoming after Su-33 PFM will complete.

 

The Pucara was only a solitaire case over a question put by RAZBAM, none develop roadmap of RAZBAM has change.

 

None "claimer" can be made if you not can get a module authorisation to the russian authorities, the Russian "secret law" is very clear on what can you make.

 

The actual 3rd party Roadmap was define by 3rd parties some time ago.

 

- ED work on WW2 aircraft (Spitfire, P-47, Me262) and F-18C module, continue improve FC-3 Su-33 and Mig-29s, Combined arms and previous modules. and of course, core, map technology and maps updates. Has some rumors of future modules (not confirmed) but none has new "harcore" east aircraft's except two old WW2/korean cockpits aircrafts show some time ago.

- Belsimtek continue update UH-1, Mi-8, F-5E and continue develop of AH-1 and Mi-24

- Aviodev has C-101EB and CC in progress and follow with Mirage F-1

- Leatherneck continue the AJS-37 Viggen / F-14 / F4u Corsar and Theater develop

- Razbam has on develop the AT-27 Tucano / Harrier AV-8B and future A-7 corsair and A-6 intruder plus other western aircrafts on plans

- VEAO has a Eurofighter, WW2 aircrafts and early UK reactors on develop plus a extender other UK WW2/cold war aircrafts on plans

- Polichop continue with the some Bo-105 and Ju-87 Stuka plus others european helos in plans.

 

The reality has, 3rd parties has more probabilities of continue research and build western aircrafts if the actual Russian secret Law not change.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Silver_Dragon

[Pronin]

The MiG29 would literally be the PERFECT module right now.

 

Full fidelity fourth gen OPFOR aircraft that in theory should be more simple to model than all of the planes that are on the horizon.

The perfect plane to fight against every single aircraft that is coming to DCS.

A part of almost every single OPFOR airforce in the world.

 

It already has a beautiful external model (The A at least)

It has a gorgeous cockpit

PFM is being worked on

 

Its overall a simple aircraft.

Modules are not easy, I understand. But the MiG-29 would be bought by every single person, I can't imagine it being anywhere near as difficult as other modules.

 

I love the MiG29. Its PFM is unironically the thing I am most excited for in DCS.

 

But... it will be disappointing if 2 years from now over the Straight of Hormuz i'm flying FC3 MiG-29 vs all sorts of full fidelity western aircraft.

 

There is already a giant stigma against FC3 planes, coming from people who fly full fidelity.

I can already see the waves of anger at me for flying my "baby simple plane" vs their "super complex fully modeled" Hornets and Tomcats.

[Krasniye]

I believe ED is no longer doing an full fidelity Su-27 because they were threatened because of it's sensitive information and freedom of information isn't as cut and dry as in the US. I would love a Su-27 more than anything but I have accepted that it probably isn't going to happen.

 

HOWEVER

 

The MiG-29A

Almost EVERYONE knows what a MiG-29 is as it's very iconic.

So many countries in the world have used it. It can be competitive with almost everything.

 

For those of us that really prefer the Russian planes I feel we are being cut short, you would think a Russian company would consider making their own planes.

 

On top of that:

The MiG-29A/G is almost completely declassified in Russian, English, and German. You can read through the manual yourself. The US pretty much reverse engineered that thing after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

 

I know SO MANY people who would preorder such an amazing aircraft Day 1, ED would make boatloads of money.

 

ON TOP OF ALL OF THIS:

Half of their work is already done! They have their WIP PFM, a beautiful new model, and a very recently made cockpit.

 

So if one of the English speakers in ED comes across this forum please give us your fans and players who admire Mikoyan's fantastic aircraft this. It would be relatively easy with your resources and the work you've already done. You could charge full price for it and everyone would still love it, it would be beneficial for everyone.

 

[Custard]

I honestly fail to see a legal reason for the MiG-29A to not become a full fidelity module.

 

The full documentation is declassified by the Luftwaffe and spread all over the net & 90s western aviation journals. What's more, there are not really any complicated or sensitive systems on board save the usual IFF & ECCM systems are always abstracted in DCS anyway.

[Silver_Dragon]

Remember ED has your site on Moscow, and has under Russian Law. The outside docs available on Occident dont necessary has a "claim" to free act of free papers on Russia.

[agentdarnell]

The MiG29 would literally be the PERFECT module right now.

 

Full fidelity fourth gen OPFOR aircraft that in theory should be more simple to model than all of the planes that are on the horizon.

The perfect plane to fight against every single aircraft that is coming to DCS.

A part of almost every single OPFOR airforce in the world.

 

It already has a beautiful external model (The A at least)

It has a gorgeous cockpit

PFM is being worked on

 

Its overall a simple aircraft.

Modules are not easy, I understand. But the MiG-29 would be bought by every single person, I can't imagine it being anywhere near as difficult as other modules.

 

I love the MiG29. Its PFM is unironically the thing I am most excited for in DCS.

 

But... it will be disappointing if 2 years from now over the Straight of Hormuz i'm flying FC3 MiG-29 vs all sorts of full fidelity western aircraft.

 

There is already a giant stigma against FC3 planes, coming from people who fly full fidelity.

I can already see the waves of anger at me for flying my "baby simple plane" vs their "super complex fully modeled" Hornets and Tomcats.

It will be a pfm flight model, but not clickable cockpit or what most think of a pfm module.

[Krasniye]

It will be a pfm flight model, but not clickable cockpit or what most think of a pfm module.

 

We know, we are saying ED should make the 29 a full module.

[Silver_Dragon]

It will be a pfm flight model, but not clickable cockpit or what most think of a pfm module.

 

and not a Profesional system modeling. Actualy has simplified as al FC-3 aircrafts.

[Pronin]

and not a Profesional system modeling. Actualy has simplified as al FC-3 aircrafts.

 

 

I understand this.

 

With the PFM it will at least fly like it is supposed to. Right now its completely missing its famed and feared turning ability.

 

PFM is a step in the right direction and will make the plane 100% more enjoyable.

 

But what we truly want is a full fidelity (clickable) MiG-29.

[cichlidfan]

I honestly fail to see a legal reason for the MiG-29A to not become a full fidelity module.

 

Failing to see something doesn't, in any way, invalidate it's existence.

[Silver_Dragon]

To make a clickable full fidelity require a module authorisation by russian authorities to model correctly system and functionality.

[Pronin]

To make a clickable full fidelity require a module authorisation by russian authorities to model correctly system and functionality.

 

You realize Russians are not the only ones with MiG-29's right?

 

And you realize not every dev in DCS is Russian?

 

That's what makes this even easier.

MiG-29's are EVERYWHERE.

 

Nothing about the A is classified anymore.

[Skeleboners]

To make a clickable full fidelity require a module authorisation by russian authorities to model correctly system and functionality.

 

would modelling something like the MiG-29A or an export model MiG-29 (maybe the G model in GDR service) require the same?

 

 

would a third party developer picking up the MiG-29- specifically a third party based outside of Russia- require legal authorization?

 

In general more aircraft from that side of the pond would be very good. Russian aircraft see a lot of combat and show up in a lot of places.

 

And if the MiG-29 can't be done because of legal issues, would the base model MiG-25 fall under the same?

[Krasniye]

You realize Russians are not the only ones with MiG-29's right?

 

And you realize not every dev in DCS is Russian?

 

That's what makes this even easier.

MiG-29's are EVERYWHERE.

 

Nothing about the A is classified anymore.

 

This. Russians actually hardly use MiG-29s anyway let alone MiG-29As. MiG-29As were more for the smaller states of the soviet union because they were cheaper and Russia wanted to opt for the Su-27. MiG-29s have been in almost every former soviet state's air force.

 

Hell it's even been used in many countries in Africa and the middle east.

 

Also can't forget German, India, and even the United States has them in their arsenal.

 

You can visit MiG-29s at museums everywhere

 

MiG-29s are literally everywhere. If it's not Russia and it's used soviet planes in their air force there is a good chance there is/was a MiG-29 in its arsenal.

 

This plane has gotten around.