Civilain Air Traffic

[johnv2pt0]

Right now anybody you see in DCS has a weapon in their hands.

 

It would be nice to have an infantry type unit with no weapon to populate those cities.

[SkateZilla]

Civilian Air Traffic :-)

[dooom]

i would also love this - i remember when i was reading the memoirs by Ed Macy and he recalled having to distinguish between unarmed civilians and enemy combatants whilst prosecuting targets in the ah-64. It would be very immersive to be able to build precision strike missions over urban areas with triggers to penalize collateral damage to civilians.

[brontolo]

Right now anybody you see in DCS has a weapon in their hands.

 

It would be nice to have an infantry type unit with no weapon to populate those cities.

 

:thumbsup:

And a pilot for SAR missions

[Sierra99]

As nice as the new airports are they're pretty insignificant without some civilian aircraft to populate them. And to be honest we'd really only need a few to dramaticlly improve things. need a midsize commercial...Boeing 737 would be ideal because of its widespread utilization and a direct connection to Nellis...we need a business class jet. Lear 45, Cessena Cotation etc...and a bug smasher. Cessena 152/172...

 

Hopefully someday...

[Angelthunder]

Since i've seen no more updates for 1.5 or 2.0.Does that mean we'll get the 2.5 update in a couple of months.With nothing else added for awhile.Or will we still get aircraft and bug fixes in between now and the merge to 2.5.Also,with the added airports to NTTR,are you guys expecting civilian aircraft to be added as AI or are you going to allow 3rd parties to make civilian models someday in the future.

[StandingCow]

Since i've seen no more updates for 1.5 or 2.0.Does that mean we'll get the 2.5 update in a couple of months.With nothing else added for awhile.Or will we still get aircraft and bug fixes in between now and the merge to 2.5.Also,with the added airports to NTTR,are you guys expecting civilian aircraft to be added as AI or are you going to allow 3rd parties to make civilian models someday in the future.

 

Nothing official on timeframe for the merge. But I would think the lack of updates/silence is a good sign that things are getting close.

 

Before a major update you don't want to go introducing more bugs.

[QuiGon]

Since i've seen no more updates for 1.5 or 2.0.Does that mean we'll get the 2.5 update in a couple of months.With nothing else added for awhile.Or will we still get aircraft and bug fixes in between now and the merge to 2.5.Also,with the added airports to NTTR,are you guys expecting civilian aircraft to be added as AI or are you going to allow 3rd parties to make civilian models someday in the future.

 

I don't think it is forbidden for 3rd party devs to develop civilian modules.

[Thisdale]

I don't really get the need for civilian traffic.

 

We have war planes.

But no War Theaters (other than Caucassus).

 

As cool as Nevada looks, with its training range and all; any kind of "mission" makes very little sense in there. I'm sorry but flying over Las Vegas every time i have to do a CAS or CAP mission kind of breaks the experience a bit.

 

/rant

[USSInchon]

I don't really get the need for civilian traffic.

 

We have war planes.

But no War Theaters (other than Caucassus).

 

As cool as Nevada looks, with its training range and all; any kind of "mission" makes very little sense in there. I'm sorry but flying over Las Vegas every time i have to do a CAS or CAP mission kind of breaks the experience a bit.

 

/rant

 

Think "Red Dawn" (the original not that horrible remake). Or perhaps a modern civil war type battle (USAF Aggressors are great for that idea). There are many possibilities with the Nevada map, just use your imagination.

 

Also the need for civil traffic, they are a constant presence in today's battle space. The upcoming SoH map will be home to 2 of the largest airlines in the world. The airspace above the UAE is one of the most heavily traveled air corridors with flights traveling to and from Europe. In Nevada KLAS is home to several major airlines, the surrounding airports are home to literally thousands of small aircraft, not even counting the tour helicopters. Also the airspace of Georgia is a heavily traveled air corridor connecting to the same corridor that traverses Iraq and the UAE. Civilian aircraft are a very important obstacle and a welcome addition to the DCS universe.

[Kaszub]

Think "Red Dawn" (the original not that horrible remake). Or perhaps a modern civil war type battle (USAF Aggressors are great for that idea). There are many possibilities with the Nevada map, just use your imagination.

 

Also the need for civil traffic, they are a constant presence in today's battle space. The upcoming SoH map will be home to 2 of the largest airlines in the world. The airspace above the UAE is one of the most heavily traveled air corridors with flights traveling to and from Europe. In Nevada KLAS is home to several major airlines, the surrounding airports are home to literally thousands of small aircraft, not even counting the tour helicopters. Also the airspace of Georgia is a heavily traveled air corridor connecting to the same corridor that traverses Iraq and the UAE. Civilian aircraft are a very important obstacle and a welcome addition to the DCS universe.

 

Have you ever heard about No-fly zones? Nobody is flying over areas where everybody is shooting each other, for example Libya and Syria. It would be a nice feature, but I would like ED to put their resources into more needed things.

[USSInchon]

I will just leave this here

[Weta43]

I don't really get the need for civilian traffic.

 

It would add to the SIM in 2 ways:

1/ Some people like flying in the SIM, but don't want to do the Combat part (for whatever reason).

2/ Civilian aircraft, particularly as part of a neutral coalition, would add to gameplay. In MP think instant Blue / Red loss for a USS Vincennes, KAL Flight 007 or MH17/MAS17 type incident.

 

We have war planes.

But no War Theaters (other than Caucassus).

Actually, 50% of the available theatres have had a war in them (between states represented in the SIM) within the last decade.

 

As cool as Nevada looks, with its training range and all; any kind of "mission" makes very little sense in there. I'm sorry but flying over Las Vegas every time i have to do a CAS or CAP mission kind of breaks the experience a bit.

 

Training missions make a lot of sense in there - that's why the community mod group that started the map did so.

If you want combat not training, maybe the additional airports and sortie distances coming in the map updates Wags talked about will help you avoid overflying Vegas.

Or maybe you could set up a hostile S-300 / Buk / Tunguska complex in and around the strip. That should give you something to do rather than just wish you were in the casinos :-)

[Bottle-RUM]

This is only my opinion about civilian airplane idea,

 

DCS is my first Flight sim i bought with the intention to learn about flying and specifically Air to Air and Air to ground combat between 2 coalitions.

Therefore i have no problem with the idea of not including civilian airplanes.

however it would be nice to see for example in the NTTR map to see a civilian airport come alive with civilian air traffic.

 

But in a war zone there is no civilian air traffic at all, as people already mentioned no fly zone's, witch has being thoroughly discussed here in the Netherlands why the MH17 flew through a no fly zone above eastern Ukraine

and got taken down by Buk surface-to-air missile system and killed total of 283 passengers, including 80 children, and 15 crew members who where probably mistaken for military cargo flight (i don't know, who would intentionally shoot down a commercial airliner?).

 

I really don't wan't these events to be recreated in DCS at all, especially not to let a team win, in wich way whats so ever!!

If people don't understand my point, look up to any of these kind of similar events and you will see why.

 

I thought DCS was Army vs Army some where around 50/50% chance to defeat your enemy based on you air combat skills?

 

Digital Combat Simulator....Combat, War, War zone, No Fly zone, No Civilian air traffic..... DCS World.

I know it's all a ''Game'' but is it really necessary to include Civillian Air traffic?

 

Sorry Weta43 But your post got me a little bit triggerd, i think it would really bad, to include this idea

''2/ Civilian aircraft, particularly as part of a neutral coalition, would add to gameplay. In MP think instant Blue / Red loss for a USS Vincennes, KAL Flight 007 or MH17/MAS17 type incident.''

into DCS. i know the intentions where good, but the ''ED Testers Team'' would put some serious weight on that idea.

 

just like i stated above, just my humble opinion and suggestion.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Bottle-RUM

[msalama]

No need for this debate at all. If you don't want civilian AC, don't get them. If you don't want to see them on your server, don't include them. Simples, no?

[Flagrum]

Imo it is not about recreating such tragic events, but to allow for scenarios where to make sure such events do NOT happen. Scenarios where you have to think twice wether to shoot or not to shoot.

And it would allow for scenarios even less violent, like air policing missions in a non-war theatre (civilian flight got off course, doesn't respond - so scramble and check what's up with it ...)

[Kaszub]

I will just leave this here

 

Thanks for proving of what I said.

 

No need for this debate at all. If you don't want civilian AC, don't get them. If you don't want to see them on your server, don't include them. Simples, no?

 

No. If they start making civilian air traffic, more urgent things will be delayed even further, like better damage model, visiblility of objects, AI, new units/objects, maps, or even modules. When they fix/add basic stuff, I don't see a problem then.

[Weta43]

Imo it is not about recreating such tragic events, but to allow for scenarios where to make sure such events do NOT happen. Scenarios where you have to think twice wether to shoot or not to shoot.

And it would allow for scenarios even less violent, like air policing missions in a non-war theatre (civilian flight got off course, doesn't respond - so scramble and check what's up with it ...)

 

Yes, this was what I meant.

[msalama]

No. If they start making civilian air traffic

 

Who's "they"? If A, B and C are making Xmil, Ymil & Zmil respectively, and out of thin air comes into being a D who's going to make, say, a Piper Cub, then where's the problem?

 

Oh, and don't say the problem is them making a Piper Cub instead of an F-35, because D's forte, as we all know, is modelling Cubs and that's all they do ;)

Edited September 7, 2016 by msalama

[lmp]

One thing that I think is crucial for adding realistic civilian traffic AND at the same time would benefit even people not interested in civilian traffic at all, is a general overhaul/expansion of the coalition and IFF systems in the game. Not every warzone is binary (think current operations in Syria) and not all IFF systems are compatible. Inability to positively identify a target as friendly or enemy affects ROE and blue on blue incidents are always a real concern. I would love it if some improvements happened in this area.

[USSInchon]

Thanks for proving of what I said.

 

You mean that the SoH is so deep in civil aircraft that it cannot even be seen on the map other than the giant yellow blob? And this is even hours before sunrise. Imagine what it would look like around midday.

[Kaszub]

You mean that the SoH is so deep in civil aircraft that it cannot even be seen on the map other than the giant yellow blob? And this is even hours before sunrise. Imagine what it would look like around midday.

 

Is there any war in the SoH area now? No? Now you've got the answer why is it "yellow" there instead in mentioned Syria, or Libya.

[Weta43]

No there's no war. Why picture SoH ? Maybe because the SoH map will arrive before any Syrian of Libyan map? Because there's tension there, and those tense situations - where civilian aircraft are still operating, can make for some interesting scenarios for missions & campaigns & constraints on operation.

[USSInchon]

Is there any war in the SoH area now? No? Now you've got the answer why is it "yellow" there instead in mentioned Syria, or Libya.

 

Added the fact the both Emirates and Etihad Airways, 2 of the worlds largest airlines are headquartered in Dubai and Abu Dhabi respectively, and would likely not cease operations during a conflict due to the fact that they need to make money. So flights into and out of those cities, while they may get rerouted would still be an obstacle in those cities.

[Beagle One]

Jane's F-15 and Jane's F/A-18 always had some jetliners in the missions, especially at campaign start when RoE was tight. Also the DID series startignn with TFX ovwer EF-2000 to F-22 ADF always featured civilian traffic.

 

I usually use the IL-76 and Yak-40 for that purpose.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Beagle One