Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[Tello]

Can you in any way just ad the .trackfile to Tacview and the let it pull the data it needs ? Or do it need the DCS-engine to compile all that shizzle ? -Oh I see now never mind....

 

To avoid confusion: you watch your track in DCS (cross fingers that it is not broken, although it probably is), then Tacview will record everything from the track and you'll have a good .acmi

[microvax]

Can you in any way just ad the .trackfile to Tacview and the let it pull the data it needs ? Or do it need the DCS-engine to compile all that shizzle ? -Oh I see now never mind....

 

nah unfortunately no, it works over the export.lua.

 

So yee DCS needs to be running and piping data through le export.lua.

[D4n]

run the track of your blueflag visit, then you can rewind that as often as you want.

 

:)

 

Ok ok will try (once there are maaaany pilots online again...) Thx! :)

[ApoNOOB]

Two Mi8 is simply not enough to get the job done in most situations. If a helicopter "can't make it there" it's superior speed will be useless. What if random-non-comm blokes block the spot?

 

What if you need to build defenses and attack at the same time? And even more important, what if you have a lot of dedicated trans pilots, should they sit out because of this?

 

That calculation microvax did, I think is a little silly, if this is the stuff robbing you guys sleep please just put both trans helo's on both sides again please.

[microvax]

Two Mi8 is simply not enough to get the job done in most situations. If a helicopter "can't make it there" it's superior speed will be useless. What if random-non-comm blokes block the spot?

 

What if you need to build defenses and attack at the same time? And even more important, what if you have a lot of dedicated trans pilots, should they sit out because of this?

 

That calculation microvax did, I think is a little silly, if this is the stuff robbing you guys sleep please just put both trans helo's on both sides again please.

 

I dunno, the problem I noticed most of the time was lack of mi8 pilots not excess while running red last round. I already mentioned not on comms people blocking slots. I get that problem.

 

And I do not know why my calculations are silly, you didnt specify either.

You yourself said, one needs an effective workforce if you need to attack and defend at the same time. If 2 MI8s run the same performance in defense deployment as 3 bluefor helis you have a very effective workforce. Average 80km transport flight an MI8 is also roughly 7 minutes faster.

 

So Red does not have a Problem with effectiveness of its FARPs. Unless you can provide things I missed which heavily shifts the odds towards favouring blue.

 

The other problem is blocking slots. That is a totally different problem from not having the capacity to do something. And I get that it exists. Only solution for that would be adding more helos to the FARP. That would shift the effectivenes or overall capactiy per FARP in terms of performance. I do not have hard data here but what I usually listend to is rocco desperately asking people to take mi8s from somewhere and it was pretty rare that the slots were taken.

 

 

So I dunno. Its again a question if we want to keep the setup which is different in capacities for both sides or if we want to balance it. I dunno. I do not have a hard opinion about that one. But in the current asymetrical setup, which I love btw, I do not see a massive inbalance which would break it.

Edited November 3, 2016 by microvax

[BodyOrgan]

Yes we haz 6 gazelles and 2 uh1s per farp.

 

You have 2 ka50s and 2 mi8s.

 

mi8 needs 4,8 minutes for a roundtrip 20km including one landing taxed at 0,5 minutes.

 

UH1/Gazelle roughly need 7 calculating 1 minute for landing.

 

4 blue pilots can do 34 deploys per hour like that, while 2 mi8 can do 25/h.

 

3 blue pilots can do 25 deploys/h.

 

So yee, given that 3+ is pretty rare and redfor already can do the same with 2 helos which bluefor needs 3 for I do not see the necessity unless I am retarded.

 

I mean I see the problem of not on comms people taking slots but there is no real solution unless we mix helis again.

I certainly don't agree with your math. You're basing it simply on distance traveled without factoring in any of the other particulars such as time to start, altitude, etc... The calculations for your takeoff/land time is just WTH?

 

Outside of capturing objectives helos don't travel much farther than the 10 clicks needed to deploy their crates. The shorter the distance the more mitigated the differences between the helos. When you factor in the time it takes to start a Huey, and how much quicker it can land (though a really good Mi-8 pilot can probably land nearly as quickly, but most can't) the Huey will make the 10 click trip in equal if not better time than the Hip.

 

Lets step back a minute though, and look at what the lack of choppers really hurt Redfor on. Anytime long distances are concerned the Mi-8 is going to have the advantage, or is it? Bluefor AFAIK has a pretty large one shot deployment advantage. I'm not sure if all the Gazelles can take crates, but according to your math it looks like at least two can.

 

You can deploy 2 Stingers, and an ammo truck in one shot. If you do this out to 20 clicks, then you're going to have a fully operational setup on your first pass, whereas the Mi-8's will have to go back for a 2nd run all the while being in the danger zone without any way of detecting that they're about to die.

 

Basically having only 2 slots is tying our pilots up in Mi-8's for an extreme amount of time just trying to get things operational whereas Bluefor makes one run, and then they can jump in CAP. You have that option because there are umpteen slots.... Redfor isn't even given the option.

 

Math can't tell you everything.

[Blitz05]

Just wanted to do a quick chime in on the helicopter discussion. Red just needs 2 additional hip slots to compensate for the 4 transport gazelles it is not asking for much other then equaling out transport capability and tactical spread of assets to the battlefield.

[BodyOrgan]

Just wanted to do a quick chime in on the helicopter discussion. Red just needs 2 additional hip slots to compensate for the 4 transport gazelles it is not asking for much other then equaling out transport capability and tactical spread of assets to the battlefield.

Actually if there are 4 transport Gazelle's then Bluefor has 6 transport choppers. I'd love to have this many Mi-8's at a FARP because I'd like to do one shot deployments of EWR, Ammo Truck, KUB, and Igla.

 

It might be a small miracle if Redfor ever has that many Mi-8's, but that's beside the point.

[mia389]

Actually if there are 4 transport Gazelle's then Bluefor has 6 transport choppers. I'd love to have this many Mi-8's at a FARP because I'd like to do one shot deployments of EWR, Ammo Truck, KUB, and Igla.

 

It might be a small miracle if Redfor ever has that many Mi-8's, but that's beside the point.

 

I think its fair that mi8s numbers are limited due to their performance. Mi8s perform much better than the hueys. Specially giving the farps altitude.

 

Have you ever seen bluefor operate 6 choppers from a farp? There is a reason. I would like to see the mi8 back on blue.

 

I would also (wishlist) like to see less airfields and more farps; example soganlug and glexdik nuetral

[Blitz05]

Honestly seeing a gazelle carry anything outside an igla team sounds ludicrous to me but i feel getting 4 hips is a good first step

[BodyOrgan]

I think its fair that mi8s numbers are limited due to their performance. Mi8s perform much better than the hueys. Specially giving the farps altitude.

 

Have you ever seen bluefor operate 6 choppers from a farp? There is a reason. I would like to see the mi8 back on blue.

 

I would also (wishlist) like to see less airfields and more farps; example soganlug and glexdik nuetral

You didn't understand anything I just posted. The Mi-8's performance is completely mitigated based on the type of operations Blue Flag is requiring it to perform, then you're going a step further by giving Bluefor a numbers advantage. Also, exactly how many FARPs are at altitude? MM59 is all I can think of, and naked Huey can handle it fine.

 

Honestly seeing a gazelle carry anything outside an igla team sounds ludicrous to me but i feel getting 4 hips is a good first step

Agreed, but I would love to have full on one shot deployments, because keeping people in Mi-8's for extended periods of time is rather difficult.

Edited November 3, 2016 by BodyOrgan

[microvax]

I certainly don't agree with your math. You're basing it simply on distance traveled without factoring in any of the other particulars such as time to start, altitude, etc... The calculations for your takeoff/land time is just WTH?

 

Outside of capturing objectives helos don't travel much farther than the 10 clicks needed to deploy their crates. The shorter the distance the more mitigated the differences between the helos. When you factor in the time it takes to start a Huey, and how much quicker it can land (though a really good Mi-8 pilot can probably land nearly as quickly, but most can't) the Huey will make the 10 click trip in equal if not better time than the Hip.

 

Lets step back a minute though, and look at what the lack of choppers really hurt Redfor on. Anytime long distances are concerned the Mi-8 is going to have the advantage, or is it? Bluefor AFAIK has a pretty large one shot deployment advantage. I'm not sure if all the Gazelles can take crates, but according to your math it looks like at least two can.

 

You can deploy 2 Stingers, and an ammo truck in one shot. If you do this out to 20 clicks, then you're going to have a fully operational setup on your first pass, whereas the Mi-8's will have to go back for a 2nd run all the while being in the danger zone without any way of detecting that they're about to die.

 

Basically having only 2 slots is tying our pilots up in Mi-8's for an extreme amount of time just trying to get things operational whereas Bluefor makes one run, and then they can jump in CAP. You have that option because there are umpteen slots.... Redfor isn't even given the option.

 

Math can't tell you everything.

 

I did not factor in startup time that is correct, since on some FARPs red choppers start hot while blue ones dont or it is the other way around. Really not sure. I did omit that indeed since I didnt have good data at hand. If you have, lemme know how the numbers look if you factor that in.

 

I do not agree at all that with shorter distance the differences in effectiveness become less prominent. Alone 1 10km trip takes an uh1 roughly 1 minute longer then an mi8, pure flight time.

I have no Idea how to land the UH1 faster then the Mi8 but that might be my incompetence. When MI8 and UH1 were both sides I was faster on the ground and back up in the air then hueys by miles but again might be just me. But what I can asure you is that the gazelle needs a lot longer to land anywhere without dying or taking damage if you are not able to land on a road. The x2 I did choose was honestly a rough estimate and was intended not to make the mi8 look too good.

 

I am a little bit confused about that one. But okay, we can for the sake of argument say they need an equal amount of time to land and takeoff. That literally is so far from what I have in terms of experience in all the helis that it really just feels wtf wrong but I am willing to just do it for sake of argument.

 

So lets say 1 Minute for deploy and takeoff. And I am still not factoring in start time. I have no good data on that one. If you have, please provide it or do calcs with them factored in.

 

So one averaged bluefor heli deploy takes you 8 minutes, Redfor takes 6,5 minutes.

Bluefor could do 30 deploys per hour with 4 helis where redfor could do 17,5.

If Redfor got one additional Mi8 per FARP it would be able to do 28.

 

 

But again I do not think theese numbers are representative, maybee I will just take averages from people deploying crates from tracks at some point, depends if we get a real discussion going or if its just going to stay like "I have a feeling".

 

I agree that bluefor technically has some amazing oneshot deploy capacity.

Afaik all 6 Gazelles per FARP can take crates. So we could technically setup 2 SA6 two stingers and a ammo crate oneshot.

How often does that happen. Yeee. Never seen it. The max I have seen working on one FARP is 3-4. Not even sure If I saw 4 working on the FARP. Thats why I did limit my calculations because 5 or more helos on one FARP is something which I didnt see so far.

Usually we have 2 people running around building defenses and then jump to the next FARP to do the same. And in that scenario mi8s have the big advantage.

Since our pilots are tied up an even more extreme amount of time with UH1 and Gazelles which have neither the speed nor the climb/high alt performance, nor the very good landing gear, nor the smaller threat by fighters due to no IRST looking at them.

 

I think the setup atm is actually quite okay. Red has the way better machines in terms of Helos. Blue has more of the less potent frames. Both have their advantages and disatvantages.

 

I could see one more Mi8 slot for Redfor without breaking stuff. It would make the not on comms people blocking slot problem less prominent without completely going over the top in deployment speed relation.

 

I do not know if there is a imbalance someone would have to do some real analysis but since you already stated that not everything can be shown by math i think thats pretty hopeless and would be a waste of time. :D

 

If you are so kind tell me something which cant be described by math. :D [Which would be necessary for it not to be able to make statements aka tell you things about things.]

Edited November 3, 2016 by microvax

[microvax]

You didn't understand anything I just posted. The Mi-8's performance is completely mitigated based on the type of operations Blue Flag is requiring it to perform, then you're going a step further by giving Bluefor a numbers advantage. Also, exactly how many FARPs are at altitude? MM59 is all I can think of, and naked Huey can handle it fine.

 

That is some next level bullshit. Even in calcs heavily favouring the MI8 regarding your statement that the performance is equal for blueflag relevant tasks the mi8 is 20% faster.

 

Try taking a gazelle from mm59 OVER the mountains to Beslan. AKA do not take the Canyon of death. You have to go slower then 80kph to get over them. Had you ever to slow down to 80kph in a mi8 to climb over that stuff ? I guess not.

 

Huey is struggeling a little with altitude. Gazelle really is just at the edge of killing the engine 99% of the time up there.

 

Nobody said its impossible. They are just a lot worse at handling higher altitudes then the mi8, not even talking about KA50 :D

Edited November 3, 2016 by microvax

[mia389]

You didn't understand anything I just posted. The Mi-8's performance is completely mitigated based on the type of operations Blue Flag is requiring it to perform, then you're going a step further by giving Bluefor a numbers advantage. Also, exactly how many FARPs are at altitude? MM59 is all I can think of, and naked Huey can handle it fine.

 

 

Agreed, but I would love to have full on one shot deployments, because keeping people in Mi-8's for extended periods of time is rather difficult.

 

Not that the farp is at alt. Its where your going is at alt. Join blue and go up to Nalchik, Beslan, Mozdoc, Nal/Suk Farp, Beslan/tib farp or Vody once. Tell me you don't go above 10,000ft. The speed also matters when timing is important. We have waited so many times for hueys to get to the AO. Send them early and they get shot down. Send them late and base starts to respawn or su27s take off without refueling to drain our cap missiles. A blue mi8 would help this problem. Having 4 transports would not.

 

Right now at mission start two mi8s can set up a 2 kubs by the time we up. If you were to have 4 it would be just crazy unless they have two for troops only and 2 that could do both troops/AA .

[BodyOrgan]

That is some next level bullshit. Even in calcs heavily favouring the MI8 regarding your statement that the performance is equal for blueflag relevant tasks the mi8 is 20% faster.

 

Try taking a gazelle from mm59 OVER the mountains to Beslan. AKA do not take the Canyon of death. You have to go slower then 80kph to get over them. Had you ever to slow down to 80kph in a mi8 to climb over that stuff ? I guess not.

 

Huey is struggeling a little with altitude. Gazelle really is just at the edge of killing the engine 99% of the time up there.

 

Nobody said its impossible. They are just a lot worse at handling higher altitudes then the mi8, not even talking about KA50 :D

 

Not that the farp is at alt. Its where your going is at alt. Join blue and go up to Nalchik, Beslan, Mozdoc, Nal/Suk Farp, Beslan/tib farp or Vody once. Tell me you don't go above 10,000ft. The speed also matters when timing is important. We have waited so many times for hueys to get to the AO. Send them early and they get shot down. Send them late and base starts to respawn or su27s take off without refueling to drain our cap missiles. A blue mi8 would help this problem. Having 4 transports would not.

 

Right now at mission start two mi8s can set up a 2 kubs by the time we up. If you were to have 4 it would be just crazy unless they have two for troops only and 2 that could do both troops/AA .

 

Neither of you understood what I wrote. I don't know how to make this clear. I'm not speaking about going anywhere, I'm speaking about traveling the 10 clicks to setup defenses.

 

I can guarantee you I'll get a KUB deployed faster in my UH-1 then you will in a Mi-8. I will startup faster, I will land faster, and I'll be traveling to my destination long before you're even airborne. How do I know this? Because I did this with Etherlight in round 5 or 6. Sure, after a couple deployments he eventually caught up, and over took, but I have two KUBS out by then.

 

Nah, forget all that. Here's your next level bullshit. The only thing in Blue Flag the Mi-8 has over Bluefor is it's speed. It can't attack anything in Blue Flag without dying, so all it gets to do is deploy. Then you're going to say OMG OP, so lets give Bluefor 8 transport choppers to completely destroy that speed advantage, but lets not stop there. Lets give 6 of those choppers bomber strike capability, but lets go further, lets take one M, and L, and capture a COMM array. Please go try to do this even with 6 Mi-8's... please I'd love to see it.

 

I'm done with this argument, because Redfor is always OP no matter what.

[BSS_Sniper]

Neither of you understood what I wrote. I don't know how to make this clear. I'm not speaking about going anywhere, I'm speaking about traveling the 10 clicks to setup defenses.

 

I can guarantee you I'll get a KUB deployed faster in my UH-1 then you will in a Mi-8. I will startup faster, I will land faster, and I'll be traveling to my destination long before you're even airborne. How do I know this? Because I did this with Etherlight in round 5 or 6. Sure, after a couple deployments he eventually caught up, and over took, but I have two KUBS out by then.

 

Nah, forget all that. Here's your next level bullshit. The only thing in Blue Flag the Mi-8 has over Bluefor is it's speed. It can't attack anything in Blue Flag without dying, so all it gets to do is deploy. Then you're going to say OMG OP, so lets give Bluefor 8 transport choppers to completely destroy that speed advantage, but lets not stop there. Lets give 6 of those choppers bomber strike capability, but lets go further, lets take one M, and L, and capture a COMM array. Please go try to do this even with 6 Mi-8's... please I'd love to see it.

 

I'm done with this argument, because Redfor is always OP no matter what.

 

Where's the like button?

[Toxic]

Where's the like button?

 

+1 :thumbup:

[levanoga]

I don't know who is trolling who anymore but comparing a transport helo to a recon/attack helo is beyond me.

[microvax]

Neither of you understood what I wrote. I don't know how to make this clear. I'm not speaking about going anywhere, I'm speaking about traveling the 10 clicks to setup defenses.

 

I can guarantee you I'll get a KUB deployed faster in my UH-1 then you will in a Mi-8. I will startup faster, I will land faster, and I'll be traveling to my destination long before you're even airborne. How do I know this? Because I did this with Etherlight in round 5 or 6. Sure, after a couple deployments he eventually caught up, and over took, but I have two KUBS out by then.

 

Nah, forget all that. Here's your next level bullshit. The only thing in Blue Flag the Mi-8 has over Bluefor is it's speed. It can't attack anything in Blue Flag without dying, so all it gets to do is deploy. Then you're going to say OMG OP, so lets give Bluefor 8 transport choppers to completely destroy that speed advantage, but lets not stop there. Lets give 6 of those choppers bomber strike capability, but lets go further, lets take one M, and L, and capture a COMM array. Please go try to do this even with 6 Mi-8's... please I'd love to see it.

 

I'm done with this argument, because Redfor is always OP no matter what.

 

Honestly I really have a high opinion of you bodyorgan, but you get emotional so freaggin fast.

And I honestly do not see why. Except my indeed trolish question about what cant be described by math, since I found that statement that math cant tell you everything pretty funny.

I mean there is things math cant tell you things about because nobody can. But you can pretty much formulate everything you can think into math. You would be amazed by the amount of operators that is out there.

 

I said 2 times in my lengthy post that I do not have good data on startup times and kindly asked you to give me the times you would regard realistic. I was freaggin honest there. I ddint say "not factoring in startup times is legid, redfor 1337 mi8 fast startup squadron op". I did literally say

 

"So lets say 1 Minute for deploy and takeoff. And I am still not factoring in start time. I have no good data on that one. If you have, please provide it or do calcs with them factored in."

 

Your next statement is redundant. As long as I do not have any data, I cant make a well educated statement. Its not that I do not believe you that the uh1 starts faster, its more that I cant factor in that part since I do not know how much faster. I am legitimately saying that I do not know that part and asking for halp TWICE and all you read is "OMG REDFOR OP".

 

Also I did say that I can see one more mi8 for Redfor working well, actually improving the situation. So why exactly am I not understanding that there is an situation favouring one side ?

 

I mean the only bluefor helicopter which can attack stuff without dying is the 342m pretty much. The L has worse armament then the Mi8 by far, the mistral, well its the mistral lets not talk about that 1960s rear aspect BS launcher, uh1, I dunno. Thing is really taking down shilkas, the rest works for me. It gets really complicated if you now try to factor in the gazelle doing both rolls attack and cargo. And I will not be going there.

But I indeed agree that all gazelles having bomber call in plus troops plus crates is not really sensible. I want to remind you that I opted for Redfor having 2 mi8s which get the same bomber strike capability before I am sticking to that.

 

I think with 6 Mi8s its possible. ;P

 

Well well, I guess I will go and measure startup times myself and come back later. :))

 

Its actually funny that you end with REDFOR is allways op since the argument started with the statement that bluefor is OP and my point was, that looking at the numbers Redfor is in a disadvantage but not in terribly big one. I asked for input to refine the statements I made, nobody took the torch.

 

 

But honestly I am interested in a more precise statement then "good enough" so I will take some measurements. :) And I indeed would not be surprised if you are right.

[M460]

Microvax, please take into account that in the Blue flag realm The Gazelle-L and the Mistral, not only they can single out any FARP with the Intel + Troop transport combo which is kind of BS if you just give that to ONE TEAM but on top BLUE still gets to spawn X6 troop transports (x8 crate transport) vs RED X2 MI8(deal with it kinda deal), at every FARP. Multitasking beats speed every day of the week, but that is just my opinion.

 

Aside of speed the UH-1h is superior to the MI-8(On Blueflag), no numbers can calculate the advantage of having magic gunners that work for you in many ways...But does it matter?

 

No matter how they want to set it up for round 10.

[microvax]

Microvax, please take into account that in the Blue flag realm The Gazelle-L and the Mistral, not only they can single out any FARP with the Intel + Troop transport combo which is kind of BS if you just give that to ONE TEAM but on top BLUE still gets to spawn X6 troop transports (x8 crate transport) vs RED X2 MI8(deal with it kinda deal), at every FARP. Multitasking beats speed every day of the week, but that is just my opinion.

 

Aside of speed the UH-1h is superior to the MI-8(On Blueflag), no numbers can calculate the advantage of having magic gunners that work for you in many ways...But does it matter?

 

No matter how they want to set it up for round 10.

 

Yeah, as I said I do agree that the rambo gazelle setup is not sensible and pretty unfair unless the mi8 gets similar capability. Also no questions asked multi tasking beats speed in most scenarios.

 

The only thing which makes me consider the problem not as severe is that practically 8 people running around doing oneshot deployments is practically never happening. If they did I would agree that red should at least get 6 mi8.

 

But with the situation atm I would say 3 max 4 are fine. I think practically you can also reduce slots per gazelle type to 1 and stick with 3. But I dunno one would really have to do some statistics to see how slots are utilized and whats connected to them beeing utilized.

 

Yeah the gunners are indeed magic, as is the "we do not care about EGT"-functionality.

Edited November 4, 2016 by microvax

[ApoNOOB]

I think the whole argument is silly. Helicopters are a bad place to do East vs West with at the current state. Any takers?

[metzger]

Well why everithing has to be balanced ? This is not the case in reality. It actualy makes the things more interesting if both sides have different weak and strong points.

[QuiGon]

Well why everithing has to be balanced ? This is not the case in reality. It actualy makes the things more interesting if both sides have different weak and strong points.

 

This!

[BodyOrgan]

Honestly I really have a high opinion of you bodyorgan, but you get emotional so freaggin fast.

And I honestly do not see why. Except my indeed trolish question about what cant be described by math, since I found that statement that math cant tell you everything pretty funny.

I mean there is things math cant tell you things about because nobody can. But you can pretty much formulate everything you can think into math. You would be amazed by the amount of operators that is out there.

 

I said 2 times in my lengthy post that I do not have good data on startup times and kindly asked you to give me the times you would regard realistic. I was freaggin honest there. I ddint say "not factoring in startup times is legid, redfor 1337 mi8 fast startup squadron op". I did literally say

 

"So lets say 1 Minute for deploy and takeoff. And I am still not factoring in start time. I have no good data on that one. If you have, please provide it or do calcs with them factored in."

 

Your next statement is redundant. As long as I do not have any data, I cant make a well educated statement. Its not that I do not believe you that the uh1 starts faster, its more that I cant factor in that part since I do not know how much faster. I am legitimately saying that I do not know that part and asking for halp TWICE and all you read is "OMG REDFOR OP".

 

Also I did say that I can see one more mi8 for Redfor working well, actually improving the situation. So why exactly am I not understanding that there is an situation favouring one side ?

 

I mean the only bluefor helicopter which can attack stuff without dying is the 342m pretty much. The L has worse armament then the Mi8 by far, the mistral, well its the mistral lets not talk about that 1960s rear aspect BS launcher, uh1, I dunno. Thing is really taking down shilkas, the rest works for me. It gets really complicated if you now try to factor in the gazelle doing both rolls attack and cargo. And I will not be going there.

But I indeed agree that all gazelles having bomber call in plus troops plus crates is not really sensible. I want to remind you that I opted for Redfor having 2 mi8s which get the same bomber strike capability before I am sticking to that.

 

I think with 6 Mi8s its possible. ;P

 

Well well, I guess I will go and measure startup times myself and come back later. :))

 

Its actually funny that you end with REDFOR is allways op since the argument started with the statement that bluefor is OP and my point was, that looking at the numbers Redfor is in a disadvantage but not in terribly big one. I asked for input to refine the statements I made, nobody took the torch.

 

 

But honestly I am interested in a more precise statement then "good enough" so I will take some measurements. :) And I indeed would not be surprised if you are right.

Don't take it personal microvax, I'm an emotional person. I'm always having to de-rage myself. :thumbup:

 

I maintain math isn't going to tell you everything because you aren't going to be able to put into numbers "what people do", because the unknown can't be measured. Clearly the statistics narrowed your vision to only the performance of an aircraft, and not employment of it.

 

If you really want to know how fast I can start a Huey, I can get this number for you. I'll do it the next time I play.

 

Here's the major take-away that bothers me most. I honestly don't want to play the air quake game. I'm looking to be the backbone handling all the support options, but Blue Flag has really gone down the toilet when it comes to support options. It used to be important rescuing people to get their lives back, it used to be important making fuel runs so CAP/CAS could takeoff, and Redfor had around 4 transport options back then. Now that those roles don't exist or don't matter due to AI refueling aircraft, it only leaves deployment of assets in which we've been gimped two aircraft. It's like I'm playing by myself out there.

 

P.S. I don't think Bluefor should be gimped. They should get the option to fly all the Gazelle's, and Huey. That's what makes it fun. The fun factor on Redfor just needs to be amp'd up a bit.

 

Well why everithing has to be balanced ? This is not the case in reality. It actualy makes the things more interesting if both sides have different weak and strong points.

The irony of this statement. Different weak, and strong points is something called asymmetrical balance. If you didn't have this, then most certainly no one would be on the lesser team.

Edited November 4, 2016 by BodyOrgan