Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[Tj1376]

Dear cribob and team.

 

My back hurts. My hands are sore. Since I haven't been able to Blue Flag I honestly haven't played any DCS. (The terrible performance of the new patch isn't helping things either.)

 

Please get Blue Flag up and running. I've stained my deck. Cleaned out the gutters. Started painting rooms in the house. Installed new blinds. Built a playground in the backyard.

 

I'm worn out.

 

Help a guy out. Please get Blue Flag back up and running soon.

 

Thx

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[levanoga]

ED cares for their playerbase and knows that you are not outside long enough during the nice summer weather, so they killed DCS MP for a while.

[QuiGon]

ED cares for their playerbase and knows that you are not outside long enough during the nice summer weather, so they killed DCS MP for a while.

:megalol:

[lemoen]

ED cares for their playerbase and knows that you are not outside long enough during the nice summer weather, so they killed DCS MP for a while.

 

It's winter where I am :P

[Foka1]

I'm not even understanding your point. You are saying that someone else's texture file on their computer can make their aircraft invisible to me on my computer?

 

Maybe I am too daft to understand this...

 

Why think about skins??

 

Just make a mod where ground textures are just white.. That way all contacts will be distinctive with that ground white background..

[Dino Might]

Why think about skins??

 

Just make a mod where ground textures are just white.. That way all contacts will be distinctive with that ground white background..

 

And is this a sufficient concern to eliminate the use of bartek, starway, mustang, and other good texture mods that add to our game?

 

I can't see this being a serious game breaking problem. Who is going to want to do this, all for the sake of maybe getting another kill or two?

[nrgized]

And is this a sufficient concern to eliminate the use of bartek, starway, mustang, and other good texture mods that add to our game?

 

 

 

I can't see this being a serious game breaking problem. Who is going to want to do this, all for the sake of maybe getting another kill or two?

 

 

Dude the smallest game communities are always the most distrusting/accusation making nerds you will ever find. MP community is so small cheats are the last thing that should be on anyone's radar.

 

Yet they are a singular item of maddening focus ISIS is even jealous of the dedication.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ciribob]

Dear cribob and team.

 

My back hurts. My hands are sore. Since I haven't been able to Blue Flag I honestly haven't played any DCS. (The terrible performance of the new patch isn't helping things either.)

 

Please get Blue Flag up and running. I've stained my deck. Cleaned out the gutters. Started painting rooms in the house. Installed new blinds. Built a playground in the backyard.

 

I'm worn out.

 

Help a guy out. Please get Blue Flag back up and running soon.

 

Thx

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think your significant other will be very grateful the server is down! Sounds like a productive time

 

We've fixed all the scripting issues, so the server does run but the performance and stability are too poor to leave the server up unfortunately.

 

Should be fine with the next patch from ED as issues are reported internally :)

 

Sorry there's not more we can do!

 

 

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[Cisco]

I think your significant other will be very grateful the server is down! Sounds like a productive time

 

We've fixed all the scripting issues, so the server does run but the performance and stability are too poor to leave the server up unfortunately.

 

Should be fine with the next patch from ED as issues are reported internally :)

 

Sorry there's not more we can do!

 

 

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

Might as well just put up a minecraft server while we wait?

[jackmckay]

MP is on hold for now. I will over-tan .

 

I brought Viggen out of boredom (and was at discount :smilewink:).

Interesting plane:thumbup:. Swedish sounds kind of German. I also found out how to kill a Viggen by instant over G - Man, it just explodes :music_whistling:

 

 

@dinomight: This is of the general course (sure there should be a tread about this) but please get into the the core of textures problem explained by this sentence: - Real problem not what you or other see but when no one else can ever see what you can see - that gives you unfair advantage. Simple as that.

I really hope that you will enjoy your favorite custom textures out of BF but if some rules have to be obeyed that goes on same appearance of "DCS playground" as in RL we all look at the same textures and same world. I also have Starways but I disabled it for BF and to avoid update overwrite. :thumbup:

[Dino Might]

MP is on hold for now. I will over-tan .

 

I brought Viggen out of boredom (and was at discount :smilewink:).

Interesting plane:thumbup:. Swedish sounds kind of German. I also found out how to kill a Viggen by instant over G - Man, it just explodes :music_whistling:

 

 

@dinomight: This is of the general course (sure there should be a tread about this) but please get into the the core of textures problem explained by this sentence: - Real problem not what you or other see but when no one else can ever see what you can see - that gives you unfair advantage. Simple as that.

I really hope that you will enjoy your favorite custom textures out of BF but if some rules have to be obeyed that goes on same appearance of "DCS playground" as in RL we all look at the same textures and same world. I also have Starways but I disabled it for BF and to avoid update overwrite. :thumbup:

 

I'm confused. If you have used Starways, you recognize it makes finding objects more difficult and not less. I understand that you are now concerned with people making custom textures that make spotting very very easy. While that's a possibility, I again ask, why should we be so concerned? You keep parroting that we need a guaranteed level playing field and you are worried about hackers, but you never explain why. I don't believe there are many if any hackers/exploiters that frequent BF. I don't believe, if there are, that they significantly impact my playing experience. To that extent, the textures matter more to me than the potential prevention of a texture exploiter in BF.

 

Do you also buy all your food farm to table, wear natural fiber clothes, no synthetics, etc. because you know how processed stuff could cause cancer and many other diseases? That's the analogue to your "solution" for your desired "pure" BF experience.

 

Let's assume someone is running the all white textures mod that would make them able to spot you at the very edge of visible range in DCS all the time. Let's suppose they can then also spot ground targets without fail. What does that get them in BF? How much of an advantage? Give me your rough estimate quantification in terms of 1v1 win ratio. Is that enough that a person using this type of exploit is reason to ban all texture mods that people enjoy? Personally, I don't think so. Given the low likelihood of it being used and the low-relative advantage it gives him, the expected value of preventing such an exploit is very low, and the cost is disproportionately high.

 

This is like a separable differential equation. There is a trivial solution. It is valid. But it's uninteresting, useless. Banning all texture mods just to prevent the one or two people that might (probably don't) cheat by exploiting textures for a spotting advantage (in a server where most people use radar 95% of the time) is heavy handed. It is the trivial solution. Not worth it.

[AbortedMan]

To assume that no one in an online game is cheating is ignorant. There are cheats in every single online game.

 

Banning the use of texture mods to curb the cheaters is silly though and not the right way to handle the issue since anyone cheating is going to be using other critical advantages that have nothing to do with the color of the ground.

[jackmckay]

BF is specific since overturn of battle can be bound to loss of strategic airfield or farp. With theoretical "white plains mod" VIP choppers could be so easy to spot and destroy and thus efforts of whole team would be easily neglected and that's no fun to anyone. Other than that, there are cheaters on BF and man would surprise how hard they try to overturn the course of battles. Last year a cheater found exploit that could fire missiles from 150km, missile would teleport and hit target at that distance by traveling 25% of its kill range. Later we saw people yanking on sticks by over-cluttering input thus generating lag triggered by missile chase warning signal, other times we could see or better said not see player's plane but only missile trail like plane is invisible and not just to one player but to a whole group around. BF is very sensitive in terms of importance of single chopper flight and thus natural camouflage is the only defense against exploits of this kind. Neither side should benefit from this scenario.

[M0ltar]

BF is specific since overturn of battle can be bound to loss of strategic airfield or farp. With theoretical "white plains mod" VIP choppers could be so easy to spot and destroy and thus efforts of whole team would be easily neglected and that's no fun to anyone. Other than that, there are cheaters on BF and man would surprise how hard they try to overturn the course of battles. Last year a cheater found exploit that could fire missiles from 150km, missile would teleport and hit target at that distance by traveling 25% of its kill range. Later we saw people yanking on sticks by over-cluttering input thus generating lag triggered by missile chase warning signal, other times we could see or better said not see player's plane but only missile trail like plane is invisible and not just to one player but to a whole group around. BF is very sensitive in terms of importance of single chopper flight and thus natural camouflage is the only defense against exploits of this kind. Neither side should benefit from this scenario.

Guys drop this argument. ciribob asked us to take this convo elsewhere. You guys are beating a dead horse.

[AbortedMan]

BF is specific since overturn of battle can be bound to loss of strategic airfield or farp. With theoretical "white plains mod" VIP choppers could be so easy to spot and destroy and thus efforts of whole team would be easily neglected and that's no fun to anyone. Other than that, there are cheaters on BF and man would surprise how hard they try to overturn the course of battles. Last year a cheater found exploit that could fire missiles from 150km, missile would teleport and hit target at that distance by traveling 25% of its kill range. Later we saw people yanking on sticks by over-cluttering input thus generating lag triggered by missile chase warning signal, other times we could see or better said not see player's plane but only missile trail like plane is invisible and not just to one player but to a whole group around. BF is very sensitive in terms of importance of single chopper flight and thus natural camouflage is the only defense against exploits of this kind. Neither side should benefit from this scenario.

 

If you have that much of an issue with it then don't play. There's nothing else you can do about it at this point.

[GGTharos]

BF is specific since overturn of battle can be bound to loss of strategic airfield or farp. With theoretical "white plains mod" VIP choppers could be so easy to spot and destroy

 

They should be quite easy to spot and destroy with an F-15 radar, but ED has granted them magical stealth capability. Certainly you couldn't attack them with a MiG-29 or Su-27 radar but those would still see the helis when they're hovering (probably would appear as a strobe :D ).

 

and thus efforts of whole team would be easily neglected and that's no fun to anyone.

 

Or you could give them top cover.

 

Other than that, there are cheaters on BF and man would surprise how hard they try to overturn the course of battles. Last year a cheater found exploit that could fire missiles from 150km, missile would teleport and hit target at that distance by traveling 25% of its kill range.

 

This isn't a teleport. If what you're saying is true, what they found is a way to bypass IC and give this missile high rocket burn time/less drag, thus making the missile much faster and longer ranged. Because your game doesn't have these same values, it shows the missile flying as per your own data.

 

Later we saw people yanking on sticks by over-cluttering input thus generating lag triggered by missile chase warning signal,

 

What?

 

other times we could see or better said not see player's plane but only missile trail like plane is invisible and not just to one player but to a whole group around.

 

I've seen planes be invisible just because, and very recently, in a PRIVATE event with very few people ... an exercise with a specific purpose. We didn't see them on radar, not on rwr, not visually, nothing - we just exploded - they were right in front of us, co-altitude. They did not appear on tacview either. I know that no one cheated - and as soon as we all re-spawned, everything was fine.

 

Don't go accusing people of cheating when what you might be experiencing is a plain old bug.

Edited July 20, 2017 by GGTharos

[*Rage*]

Blueflag is just dying for a Mi-24P.

 

 

Maybe an F4E too:)

[Alpenwolf]

Blueflag is just dying for a Mi-24P.

 

 

Maybe an F4E too:)

When the Mi-24P comes out, that flying tank is gonna be RED only! I don't wanna hear any BLUE player crying about it! The A-10's and Huey's go back to BLUE and the Froggies are RED only! I'll never stop pushing this agenda until things go back the way they were before. The days when DCS wasn't plaqued with kids and the typical kind of online players. Sad enough for me to see this server's being so generous offering 'em sissies what they want. Or else what?! They wont fly on BF?! Hell ya! Let 'em go! Better 10-15 DEDICATED players online than 40+ flying disposable diapers... Ah come on, don't hate. I'm not being rude. I'm just saying what's on many virtual aviators' mind. And don't forget, kids! World peace!

 

S!

[jackmckay]

@tharos

- radars are fckdup anyway for now but I'm very suspicious about APG-63 immunity to ground clutter under(!) tree level while locking slow speed target while two half of its rotor blades have opposing Doppler phases (AoA angled blades/sinusoidal corner speed pulses). RCS would be very confusing. High contrast terrain would make things way much easier.

- that missile was traveling at normal speed up to its 50% range and then target locked 100km away just exploded, actually two targets in a row, missile was AIM7. GCI saw it and reported to gamemaster. Tacview was recorded, analysed, guy banned.. All clear as day, cheater and exploiter was in the game, destroyed 2 choppers from 150km away just in point of landing and drooping troops on FARP taken. We on TS said "WTF" for several times! Cheaters won't be stopped by being banned, that's for sure.

- you say: "bypass IC and give this missile high rocket burn time/less drag, thus making the missile much faster and longer ranged". I say again: WTF? Is that even possible?

- you say: "Invisibitlity bug". I say: Same as before. We also experienced similar "bug" but to me that looked like cheat too. Man can't easily know since Tacview destroys records on severe BF game crashes since 10min delay is on and my BF MP crashes a lot. Playing MP track takes a lot of time if lucky to have non corrupted file saved.

- too much of stick yanking is generating lag: Not my words but from other people on TS. Didn't try.

 

Its getting hard do stay untouched by all of this. Always in war against cheaters and they are on BF 100%, no error on this man. I wish I was wrong but there are others that saw same things - No "I see dead pople" story here. But that tells one thing: BF is matter of high importance or V-VIP server - which is nice! Cheaters go to hell!

 

@alpen: I support "no diapers" league so less diapers and whining - higher FPS for the rest. Hind will be awesome on REDFOR. I always expected for BF to have clear cut between east-west sides units and to me that is natural way.

 

Piss too! :D

[GGTharos]

@tharos

- radars are fckdup anyway for now but I'm very suspicious about APG-63 immunity to ground clutter under(!) tree level while locking slow speed target while two half of its rotor blades have opposing Doppler phases (AoA angled blades/sinusoidal corner speed pulses). RCS would be very confusing. High contrast terrain would make things way much easier.

 

There are radar plots out there showing a lot of information on the subject - separated returns for heli body and blades. I'm sure you can dig'em up. The incident where an F-15E bombed a helicopter is also a great example of this: The helicopter was picked up in A2A mode radar (the radar was never put in to A2G mode) while the helicopter was landed and boarding troops, and they were going to attack with an AIM-9 ... until they realized it was landed and they chose to use a bomb (guided with the targeting pod). The heli took off while the bomb was in flight. Although the APG-70 and APG-63 are not exactly the same radar, the MSIPII APG-63 has the same A2A capability, but one less frequency band (IIRC) and less precise A2G mapping capability.

 

- that missile was traveling at normal speed up to its 50% range and then target locked 100km away just exploded, actually two targets in a row, missile was AIM7. GCI saw it and reported to gamemaster. Tacview was recorded, analysed, guy banned.. All clear as day, cheater and exploiter was in the game, destroyed 2 choppers from 150km away just in point of landing and drooping troops on FARP taken. We on TS said "WTF" for several times! Cheaters won't be stopped by being banned, that's for sure.

- you say: "bypass IC and give this missile high rocket burn time/less drag, thus making the missile much faster and longer ranged". I say again: WTF? Is that even possible?

Obviously it is exactly what happened. You can test this yourself by adding 300 sec to your favorite missile's burn time, turning off IC, and testing with a friend - just don't have him do the same thing. You will see your missile fly all the way in, while on his end he will explode without the missile ever reaching him. No teleportation here though I suppose you could describe it like that. We experienced this a lot when working on the missile mod and one person didn't have it - in fact, maybe that would be the easiest thing for you to try: Turn off IC, load the missile mod and fly with someone who doesn't have it. You will see the same effect, but less pronounced (because the missile mod is actually quite reasonable ;) ) - to achieve all this, your cheater must have somehow bypassed IC.

 

- you say: "Invisibitlity bug". I say: Same as before. We also experienced similar "bug" but to me that looked like cheat too. Man can't easily know since Tacview destroys records on severe BF game crashes since 10min delay is on and my BF MP crashes a lot. Playing MP track takes a lot of time if lucky to have non corrupted file saved.

To some people everything looks like a cheat.

 

- too much of stick yanking is generating lag: Not my words but from other people on TS. Didn't try.

So irrelevant then - it doesn't even make sense without a better description.

 

Its getting hard do stay untouched by all of this. Always in war against cheaters and they are on BF 100%, no error on this man. I wish I was wrong but there are others that saw same things - No "I see dead pople" story here. But that tells one thing: BF is matter of high importance or V-VIP server - which is nice! Cheaters go to hell!

I agree that there are (and always will be) cheaters, they're everywhere; just probably not as many as a lot of people believe. A LOT of things are actually just game bugs. Edited July 20, 2017 by GGTharos

[Thrud]

@ CrirBob - What are the Server setting in the Detection.Lua?

visual_detection = {

terrain_LOS_test = true,

Earth_curvature_LOS_test = true,

objects_LOS_test = true,

trees_LOS_test = false, <-------is that set to True to keep the AI from shooting at us thru the trees?

trees_LOS_test_T4 = true,

 

It sucks sneaking up to a target only to have bullets or a rocket suddenly come thru the trees from the AI

[AbortedMan]

@ CrirBob - What are the Server setting in the Detection.Lua?

visual_detection = {

terrain_LOS_test = true,

Earth_curvature_LOS_test = true,

objects_LOS_test = true,

trees_LOS_test = false, <-------is that set to True to keep the AI from shooting at us thru the trees?

trees_LOS_test_T4 = true,

 

It sucks sneaking up to a target only to have bullets or a rocket suddenly come thru the trees from the AI

 

As implied by Matt Wagner in the latest Q&A with Sidestrafe (linked on DCS' Facebook) trees in 1.5 currently have no LOS capability. He stated trees being a factor for LOS is only in 2.0.

[Bersagliere81]

I've been out of the game and I need a quick brief.

What's new in blueflag server?

The desktop app seems to not be working, and neither is the web map.

Also I checked few times on the multiplayer server list and never saw the blueflag one, unless I was that unlucky to do that everytime during server restart

[Ciribob]

I've been out of the game and I need a quick brief.

What's new in blueflag server?

The desktop app seems to not be working, and neither is the web map.

Also I checked few times on the multiplayer server list and never saw the blueflag one, unless I was that unlucky to do that everytime during server restart

 

The desktop app is no longer working due to the changes & improvements we've made to the online map (interactive map, zooming, hover & click info)

 

The website is working as far as I can see, its saying the server is down, which it is :P

 

BlueFlag is on hold until the next patch due to the poor performance bugs that have been reported to ED already.

 

However, BlueFlag Normandy is still being worked on :)

[gregzagk]

Edit: Sniped by ciribob :P