Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[AbortedMan]

How the hell do you recommend we fly air superiority missions with our radar off? You have to see the enemy to deter them.

 

Also,, what does having my radar on (or off) have to do with the crap RWR providing zero SA in the su27?

 

Aborted- this is pretty easy to understand man. You are purposely being a donkeys behind for what point I don't understand. Maybe had we not neutered the M2k at the same time we gave the su27 a unique feature you might have had a more challenging experience while you were in the SU.

 

But- since the M2k is still neutered it will be interesting if people go back to it now that DL is off.

 

Let's drop this argument for the time being and see if the changes to the M2k help even it out or if we do need to experiment with limiting DL.

 

TJ

 

 

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GCI requires aircraft radars to give a picture, with this picture known bandits can be read out and an effective CAP to stop these threats can be achieved. Otherwise you're flying without radar for your own ends to rack up kills and stay hidden not really helping the whole BF teamwork system.

 

Oh wow, I think we found the real issue with the Su27. If you guys are telling me you're not manipulating the Radar on/off RWR mechanics of DCS then you need to reevaluate how you're approaching the problem.

 

This is not trolling in any way shape or form. I never ever just turn my radar on and leave it for the entire flight. I use it in a deliberate manner so I can keep the element of surprise because I know so many people have become accustomed to foolishly only looking at their RWR and not out of their canopy. This is the same with every aircraft with an A2A radar, not just the Su27.

 

Think about it...there's no reason to keep your radar on at all times while in transit to the area, you're just announcing from hundreds of miles away to anyone in the area and beyond with an RWR that you're coming. Flip it on for a few seconds to get a picture if you need to, then turn it off/standby. This applies to multiple other situations where you don't need radar on during escort, pursuit/intercept of an enemy, retreat, etc.

 

I think you should be taking a second look at how these mechanics work and take advantage of radar on/off modes.

 

EDIT: How is the Mirage neutered?? Because D2M is removed? Neutered? No, not true in the slightest.

Edited June 29, 2017 by AbortedMan

[kobeshow]

So many thigs to say on this topic, but I'll just keep my sanity and

[*Rage*]

Not our first rodeo.

[Frostie]

Oh wow, I think we found the real issue with the Su27. If you guys are telling me you're not manipulating the Radar on/off RWR mechanics of DCS then you need to reevaluate how you're approaching the problem.

 

This is not trolling in any way shape or form. I never ever just turn my radar on and leave it for the entire flight. I use it in a deliberate manner so I can keep the element of surprise because I know so many people have become accustomed to foolishly only looking at their RWR and not out of their canopy. This is the same with every aircraft with an A2A radar, not just the Su27.

 

Think about it...there's no reason to keep your radar on at all times while in transit to the area, you're just announcing from hundreds of miles away to anyone in the area and beyond with an RWR that you're coming. Flip it on for a few seconds to get a picture if you need to, then turn it off/standby. This applies to multiple other situations where you don't need radar on during escort, pursuit/intercept of an enemy, retreat, etc.

 

I think you should be taking a second look at how these mechanics work and take advantage of radar on/off modes.

 

EDIT: How is the Mirage neutered?? Because D2M is removed? Neutered? No, not true in the slightest.

 

Do you even BVR.

 

Any 27 paint on your RWR no matter how long should get your attention. To think when in a 27 you turn radar off you become ignored is just amateur.

[Lorenzo.D]

Sorry...only standard troups can be used For conquer?

 

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[M0ltar]

Sorry...only standard troups can be used For conquer?

 

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Yep. Mortar etc were removed for capture. Have to use standard troops.

[AbortedMan]

Do you even BVR.

 

Any 27 paint on your RWR no matter how long should get your attention. To think when in a 27 you turn radar off you become ignored is just amateur.

 

I realized as soon as my post went up it would be disregarded or cut down because it's from me.

 

Not sure what I was thinking trying to rationalize any discussion of tactics with you guys here.

[microvax]

I realized as soon as my post went up it would be disregarded or cut down because it's from me.

 

Not sure what I was thinking trying to rationalize any discussion of tactics with you guys here.

 

M9, did you ever hear of a state air superiority in a surprising fashion ?

 

I haven't, killing the bad guys != air superiority.

[Lorenzo.D]

Thanks MOltar

 

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[Tj1376]

Or just put a permanent EWR down toward the north. So, when the front extends south we lose datalink due to range. It also eliminates the possibility of there being to many if that is indeed the problem so we can test with a single.

 

That seems like a very decent idea and it will tell us if it is the DL itself or the number of EWRs that caused the lag. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Good idea!

 

 

Love this idea!

 

 

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[Tj1376]

Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

 

Dino, I'm waiting for the DCS: SSN 688 module.

 

 

Janes 688 attack submarine game was epic. I lost many hours of my youth playing that game. So advanced for its time ...

 

Omg and it's available on steam!!!!

 

 

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[mia389]

Very laggy again today. I dont think DL and EWRs were the cause

[VentZer0]

I realized as soon as my post went up it would be disregarded or cut down because it's from me.

 

Not sure what I was thinking trying to rationalize any discussion of tactics with you guys here.

 

 

Simple, when I fly the M2KC the radar stays off until fence in/nose hot command this is only if the range to the AO is big. Once I approach the AO I never turn my radar off (except for rear aspect dog chases) because even with a GCI I need the SA.

 

In the SU27 this is even more of a problem. If you only fly in EOS you get way less data, in the previous rounds I learned not to trust my EOS in BVR. You know to be stealthy and shit. It never worked out except in the mountains or on ambushes with flanking or cold aspects. Those are rare on the frontline tho. If the F15 sees you already there is no point of turning off your radar anymore.

[jackmckay]

I think that radar on 27 is buggy. I see target visually but needs like 10 sec of HI/MED/ILV*Range+/-50km*Elevation+/-5km before acquiring target. Locked but if mode changed and returned to previous state needs next 5-10 sec to acquiring again. On SP it works much better and faster. Being merged gives better suitability.

 

PS. Do we have some 104th guys here on BF after yesterday's Red victory?

[VentZer0]

I think that radar on 27 is buggy. I see target visually but needs like 10 sec of HI/MED/ILV*Range+/-50km*Elevation+/-5km before acquiring target. Locked but if mode changed and returned to previous state needs next 5-10 sec to acquiring again. On SP it works much better and faster. Being merged gives better suitability.

 

PS. Do we have some 104th guys here on BF after yesterday's Red victory?

 

I guess airquake became a bit stale maybe?

The odds tho are a bit ridiculous. 6:1 for blue. Also Blue flying mostly M2kC.

[Oceandar]

I think Moltar's right. The EWR systems should be mission placed, and can be repaired by bringing a specific EWR crate to them. That way managing them is still important for the Logistics teams, and BlueFor knows where they are to hit them and try and take away the DL advantage.

 

That actually gives aircraft like the Viggen a bigger role to play as they're built around high speed single target strikes.

I dont know, I think I'm becoming Moltar's fan here. I like his ideas so much. :D

 

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[microvax]

Could it be simply the amount of player aircraft slots causing lag even if they are not taken ?

 

I mean I saw the lag today. Its terrible again. So really no Idea what is actually causing it. Either to many dropped units or to many slots ? I dunno I think nothing else changed right ?

[Oceandar]

PS. Do we have some 104th guys here on BF after yesterday's Red victory?

 

Yeah, they were on BF before restart just now.

 

Now, where's 51st PVO, the Red side need you guys :D

 

 

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[jackmckay]

Red needs some fine mig21 pilots and good GCI and we kick lot of blue asses - eventually. In the meantime - choppers wars.

[M0ltar]

Could it be simply the amount of player aircraft slots causing lag even if they are not taken ?

 

I mean I saw the lag today. Its terrible again. So really no Idea what is actually causing it. Either to many dropped units or to many slots ? I dunno I think nothing else changed right ?

So the lag continues even with the removal of the red EWR? Can I make a suggestion and say why do g we try and remove the ability to drop units completely from a testing round and see if the lag disperses?

[Ciribob]

So the lag continues even with the removal of the red EWR? Can I make a suggestion and say why do g we try and remove the ability to drop units completely from a testing round and see if the lag disperses?

 

You can but we wont :)

 

It ran completely smooth with the first version of the new scripts and also ran smoothly up until recently, with troop drops and the saving of dropped units.

 

As someone said earlier, ray tracing - as in line of sight calculations are expensive CPU wise.

 

Anything that exists in DCS adds to that burden (AI is looking for stuff, Radars looking for stuff etc)

 

Major changes have been addition of new bases, Mistral Gazelle, addition of units on map and DataLink

 

I forgot to optimise ray tracing that is used by the JTAC system - this will currently iterate through all units of the opposite side and calculate distance. As the unit numbers have increased, so too will the time taken for this function to run. While searching for targets, for each JTAC, this function is run once every 5 seconds.

 

I'll optimise this when I have some free time, as there is a much better method - which probably won't be till Tuesday as im away from tomorrow.

 

Once thats optimised - if its still laggy, then we'll work back through the versions of the missions until its stable again. DL wont come back in the meantime though as we need to rule that out completely. Just because its laggy now, doesnt mean that DL wasn't also contributing.

 

Once its lag free, we'll start building up again.

[M0ltar]

You can but we wont :)

 

It ran completely smooth with the first version of the new scripts and also ran smoothly up until recently, with troop drops and the saving of dropped units.

 

As someone said earlier, ray tracing - as in line of sight calculations are expensive CPU wise.

 

Anything that exists in DCS adds to that burden (AI is looking for stuff, Radars looking for stuff etc)

 

Major changes have been addition of new bases, Mistral Gazelle, addition of units on map and DataLink

 

I forgot to optimise ray tracing that is used by the JTAC system - this will currently iterate through all units of the opposite side and calculate distance. As the unit numbers have increased, so too will the time taken for this function to run. While searching for targets, for each JTAC, this function is run once every 5 seconds.

 

I'll optimise this when I have some free time, as there is a much better method - which probably won't be till Tuesday as im away from tomorrow.

 

Once thats optimised - if its still laggy, then we'll work back through the versions of the missions until its stable again. DL wont come back in the meantime though as we need to rule that out completely. Just because its laggy now, doesnt mean that DL wasn't also contributing.

 

Once its lag free, we'll start building up again.

Sounds good to me!

 

Questions though. Does the JTAC have to search that often? If I understood what you said that is. I'd like to see that limited so it's not an instant ID for JTAC. What about limiting the cycles to once every minute instead of 5 seconds? I'm assuming real life JTAC has to search for targets.

[Ciribob]

Sounds good to me!

 

Questions though. Does the JTAC have to search that often? If I understood what you said that is. I'd like to see that limited so it's not an instant ID for JTAC. What about limiting the cycles to once every minute instead of 5 seconds? I'm assuming real life JTAC has to search for targets.

No it doesn't.

 

As I said, I'll optimise it. :)

 

It won't search that often - it's a carry over from old script I forgot to change.

 

For example ewr scan time for airbases is 1 minute scan time which works without issue.

 

All ray tracing / distance checks that we control will be optimised and staggered ( so they don't all run at the same second which would lag)

 

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[M0ltar]

No it doesn't.

 

As I said, I'll optimise it. :)

 

It won't search that often - it's a carry over from old script I forgot to change.

 

For example ewr scan time for airbases is 1 minute scan time which works without issue.

 

All ray tracing / distance checks that we control will be optimised and staggered ( so they don't all run at the same second which would lag)

 

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Apologies. I guess I misunderstood.

[Ciribob]

Apologies. I guess I misunderstood.

No worries, optimise is pretty broad! :D

 

I might have time to patch and test tomorrow evening but definitely by Tuesday.

 

Sorry it can't be done sooner.

 

Might sneak an extra feature in for jtac as a sweetener as well ( it won't cause lag )

 

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