Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[CrashO]

But there's the catch 22!! GCI is useless without having helos drop off radar sites and helos can't fly when they have no idea what is flying on opposite side.

No it's not. Those "mobile" EWR's don't do much. And are removed after each 3 hour reset anyway. And friendlies are always visible, regardless of EWR.

 

You don't just need a GCI to send you to a blip on the map.. you need one to coordinate the right player to the right area (and alternate backups). 90% of the time when I am doing GCI I am blind. But if 2 people (such as strikers) report RWR nails to me, I can triangulate the position from there and dispatch the closest fighter over. Even when I don't actually see hostiles. When one player has radar track, he just has to report the position (Magic, Reaper 11, tally bandit 12 o-clock for 25 @ 11000 tracking West. And magic draws a nice line and knows exactly where the bandit is and where he is going, without seeing something.

 

You don't need to see hostiles, to be a effective GCI.

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by CrashO

[levanoga]

 

Ok from your condesending reply I am understanding that the new direction BF is taking is now

 

1 You want to fly a specific aircraft? too bad, we force you to take a side

2 Your side is massively underpop?, too bad, you must scramble with what you have and don't complain

3 no GCI? too bad suck it up and face the wrath of the opposition with superior air power, and don't even think of using A/G aircraft

 

Understood loud and clear

 

 

1. Each round there is a different scenario with a different aircraft setup and its up to the Buddy Spike team not us here. The problem lies that the testing has been going on for quite some time but the BS team is doing their best as they can in their free time. ED doesn't really help when they break missions with each update.

 

2. What else will you do? Adapt your strategies and tactics against superior numbers. You cannot play offensively (you can still try) with the KA-50 when you don't own the skies near the target area. If the enemy is pushing for your airbase with superior numbers do you think it is a good idea to hit that closest FARP to your airbase? That's where their helos are coming from and their fighters are protecting them, its suicide. Better thing to do in a KA-50 is hide in a city near the airbase and wait for their helos until they get close enough for your ATGM's. You just forced 30 players to scramble another helo and bought your airbase precious time.

 

3. GCI and good communication is critical in both offense and defence. As stated before you can still go A-G but don't expect mercy when you assault and don't own the skies.

Edited February 21, 2017 by levanoga

[mia389]

You have the 104th for that or your own server.

 

Proper server settings for Blue Flag should be:

-no chat box

-no F10 map position

-no kill messages

-no status popup messages

 

The problem with player numbers would be reduced if the side selection script would be for each server restart instead of the whole testing phase/round.

 

:thumbup:

[mia389]

So I guess you don't want ANY helos flying on BF??

 

What happened, why the sudden radical change from previous versions???

 

Helis would be fine! I make many missions without map markers for Helis. Would be nice if Farps had radio beacons though. I actually think no map markers would help helis.

[Dagger71]

No it's not. Those "mobile" EWR's don't do much. And are removed after each 3 hour reset anyway. And friendlies are always visible, regardless of EWR.

 

You don't just need a GCI to send you to a blip on the map.. you need one to coordinate the right player to the right area (and alternate backups). 90% of the time when I am doing GCI I am blind. But if 2 people (such as strikers) report RWR nails to me, I can triangulate the position from there and dispatch the closest fighter over. Even when I don't actually see hostiles. When one player has radar track, he just has to report the position (Magic, Reaper 11, tally bandit 12 o-clock for 25 @ 11000 tracking West. And magic draws a nice line and knows exactly where the bandit is and where he is going, without seeing something.

 

You don't need to see hostiles, to be a effective GCI.

 

 

again you are making assumptions, this time that we all flying aicraft with RWR. this is also useless when one side is massively outnumbered

[CrashO]

again you are making assumptions, this time that we all flying aicraft with RWR.

Red has 3 aircraft without RWR. Blue has 3. (L-39, MI-8, K-50) vs (Hawk, MI-8, Huey).

 

So it is just a pissing match of pro's and cons either way. And no reason red never has a GCI.

 

And to counter, RED has Migs/Su's with optical systems, so they can be effective without using radar, rendering blue's RWR useless. (if I had to count the amount of times I got a surprise Fox 2 up the six from a Mig29 while cruising the mirage ..)

[Frostie]

So easy to talk a good fight on what you should be doing when your team vastly outnumbers the enemy. Had a free day today and spent a large portion on the server, seemed to have to play as cap, repair, sam deploy, sead, cas, cas and cap, even got some rounds on an A-10 in a mi8, spent a large portion alone against 10+ but i've got to say i've played all 9 rounds but never seen these sort of unbalanced numbers for such a period, it just wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else.

But the players playing on blue seem content with themselves.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Frostie

[Dagger71]

So easy to talk a good fight on what you should be doing when your team vastly outnumbers the enemy. Had a free day today and spent a large portion on the server, seemed to have to play as cap, repair, sam deploy, sead, cas, cas and cap, even got some rounds on an A-10 in a mi8, spent a large portion alone against 10+ but i've got to say i've played all 9 rounds but never seen these sort of unbalanced numbers for such a period, it just wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else.

But the players playing on blue seem content with themselves.

 

 

+1000

 

This isn't the BlueFlag server I know. It's unrecognizable. I don't know if there was a physical turnover of people managing the server but regardless, this server is now nothing more than a shooting gallery for the blue side and enforcing preposterous game changes. . Server has been empty for a few hours now, due to the blue on red gangbang thats been going for days ( I work 2 weeks out of town and only get 1 week to play more or less), so I can't confirm how long its been like this. Regardless of what some people say, these changes are (YES they are changes on the server!!!) not going to last. I give it even before round 10 goes live before the changes are reversed. No one who's been around since Round 1 can say this is a good start to round 10. Well sorry maybe a bunch on the blue side might say its great like this.

 

 

On that note, I will say, I do love the unit count changes. When I was once able to get within 10 km of a FARP 4 days ago, before getting shot of the sky (or maybe I was rammed by enemy or friendly, or maybe it was ground units, maybe air units,or maybe it was some new bug, unfortunately I don't know), I did get to see lots of new ground units all around the FARP. But that was 4 days ago, and haven't been able to get close to any city, farp or comm array since to see what other unit changes were implemented.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Dagger71

[Frostie]

+1000

 

This isn't the BlueFlag server I know. It's unrecognizable. I don't know if there was a physical turnover of people managing the server but regardless, this server is now nothing more than a shooting gallery for the blue side .

 

I wouldn't worry about it, just ignore the testing phase and wait until round 10 starts i'm sure that is what most are doing, currently there just seems to be a lot of new blue players enjoying the fantastic mission setup.

[microvax]

Yeah blue efficiency is at a historical low as well tbh..

Lots of people in hibernation.

 

Greg etc. are just very busy and said that more then once, that they just let the server run for a) testing and b) having at least something up while they dont have the time to support an actual round of blueflag.

 

We are running red again next testing round btw.. ;D There is really no point in flying on blue atm.. A10c would be noice on red side, give blue ka50 would be nice as well. I think that setup before round7 was really the most fun one.

[M460]

Yeah blue efficiency is at a historical low as well tbh..

Lots of people in hibernation.

 

Greg etc. are just very busy and said that more then once, that they just let the server run for a) testing and b) having at least something up while they dont have the time to support an actual round of blueflag.

 

We are running red again next testing round btw.. ;D There is really no point in flying on blue atm.. A10c would be noice on red side, give blue ka50 would be nice as well. I think that setup before round7 was really the most fun one.

 

+1 :thumbup:

[Oceandar]

Well actually I enjoyed my flight last night alone with Su-33 despite the fact I got my a@$ kicked 4 times. It was against bunch of M2000 & F-15. It was surprised me that it's actually fun.

[ZHeN]

Had a lot of fun last night at the server in my mirage. First supporting blue strikers at nalchik and then ground pounding and defending krymsk. Thanks for the fun, guys! That was some serious action

[Toxic]

You have the 104th for that or your own server.

 

Proper server settings for Blue Flag should be:

-no chat box

-no F10 map position

-no kill messages

-no status popup messages

 

The problem with player numbers would be reduced if the side selection script would be for each server restart instead of the whole testing phase/round.

 

I do not believe these help or foster teamwork. They need to turn kill messages back on!

[OnlyforDCS]

Well actually I enjoyed my flight last night alone with Su-33 despite the fact I got my a@$ kicked 4 times. It was against bunch of M2000 & F-15. It was surprised me that it's actually fun.

 

I believe I was in one of the Mirages that downed you once. (or one of your Su33 friends) :) Good stuff :thumbup:

 

Just wanted to say that I joined Blue Flag for the first time a couple of days ago. I just went in blind and picked Blue, I didn't even consider the numbers and didn't know about the sitrep. Is there any way to change sides to red, or is that it until the round/testing is over?

[*Rage*]

Proper server settings for Blue Flag should be:

-no chat box

-no F10 map position

-no kill messages

-no status popup messages

 

 

I'd absolutely agree with you if it were a closed squads vs squads only event (Greg - when?!) that would run at scheduled times. Squads have teamwork, leadership and unified objectives inherent in their structure.

 

For a 24/7 public server you need to make it easier to foster teamwork and cameraderie between fighters, strikers and helis. For those reasons your suggestions would result in a sterile, silent server.

Edited February 21, 2017 by ///Rage

[xcom]

Blue won, map and players coalition restriction reset.

[gregzagk]

I'd absolutely agree with you if it were a closed squads vs squads only event (Greg - when?!) that would run at scheduled times. Squads have teamwork, leadership and unified objectives inherent in their structure.

 

We got a squadron leader meeting back then about this kind of event but had to postpone it for now. We run into stability issues that we won't be able to easily deal with them with our current free time status.

 

Greg

[QuiGon]

Proper server settings for Blue Flag should be:

-no chat box

-no F10 map position

-no kill messages

-no status popup messages

 

I agree, especially with the "no F10 map position" proposal. Having the own position magically marked on the map really hurts proper airmanship in BlueFlag :(

[OnlyforDCS]

Blue won, map and players coalition restriction reset.

 

Thanks for the heads up. Will definitely be going RED next.

[-Painter-]

Blue won, map and players coalition restriction reset.

 

Server is up again?

Asking, because http://gadget.buddyspike.net says server is offline.

[CrashO]

I agree, especially with the "no F10 map position" proposal. Having the own position magically marked on the map really hurts proper airmanship in BlueFlag :(

It's going to be a massive pain for the helicopters without INS to locate the farps and CommArrays without the map though. (like the Huey). I Wouldn't be against it, but only if all the bases get Radio beacons (or are anywhere close to existing beacons).

[ZHeN]

-no kill messages

Are there any? I only saw messages about jtac groups/their targets getting killed, but it was never mentioned by whom.

Actually this feature is what I really miss the most after my 200hrs+ spent on the TAW's Kaukasus Offensive

[firmek]

+1000

 

This isn't the BlueFlag server I know. It's unrecognizable. I don't know if there was a physical turnover of people managing the server but regardless, this server is now nothing more than a shooting gallery for the blue side and enforcing preposterous game changes. Server has been empty for a few hours now, due to the blue on red gangbang thats been going for days ( I work 2 weeks out of town and only get 1 week to play more or less), so I can't confirm how long its been like this. Regardless of what some people say, these changes are (YES they are changes on the server!!!) not going to last. I give it even before round 10 goes live before the changes are reversed. No one who's been around since Round 1 can say this is a good start to round 10. Well sorry maybe a bunch on the blue side might say its great like this....

+1.

I think there is a simple reason for unbalanced numbers which is the server being online all the time. Having server available all the time removed the main periodical nature of the event with goal of capturing and holding bases. I remember one of the best BF moments for me was flying like a crazy in Mi-8, helping to set up defenses around Tbilisi which was the last Blue foothold, defending against hordes of Red. During that time it actually mattered as the effort would give us a chance to fight the other day and maybe strike back before end of the round. Nowadays people hop-in mostly for a relaxing, fun session. In result the overall quality of play is affected in negative way - more air-quake, less objective gameplay and finally no incentive for joining the outnumbered side. I migt even find a screenshot that I've made of Blue with proportions around 20x5, apart of one guy in A-10 all others “cap” in F-15 and a few Mirages :doh:.

There have been already a number of measures taken to balance the numbers - weapons, same planes on both sides (:cry:). Maybe apart of implementing automated balancing system I don't think that introducing more changes would help. Restore the periodical sessions, give the goal back. The numbers will balance them self and BF will again become this exceptional event that everyone is waiting for. Otherwise I see the risk of the original concept being watered and the server becoming just one of many like many other all vs. all servers in the crowd.

Finally, don’t take it as a criticism. I really wish the BF all the best and appreiciate all the great, hard work that Buddy Spike team is doing :thumbup:

[Hansdampf]

It is a pity that this testing period is so long and is dominated by “winning-team-joiners” who degrade the whole concept to a dull coop mission for blue. In the end it is essentially pointless for either side to play with these odds… Guess we urgently need round 10 to start before the traditional red players forget this server exists!

 

In previous rounds I think greg and xcom did a good job persuading certain groups and squadrons to change sides to provide reasonable balanced numbers… The only problem remaining was that during European nights blue often took half of the map without any opposition. Luckily some Russians did the same for red during European morning so that the battle continued more or less unchanged in the evening when server population was high.

I definitely think there should be some kind of script which prevents capturing when team balance is extremely off (3:1 or worse). It totally undermines the whole PvP concept when one team can capture points without any opposition.

 

 

Concerning kill messages: Maybe we can get kills reported with a delay of a few minutes or additionally just reported to the two engaged players? That way it is important to visually confirm a kill while not being completely denied the opportunity to send your kind regards to your victim/killer… Might be a possible compromise?