Transfer of keys between accounts is suspended

[RalphNLD]

I mean I can sort of understand that they disabled it. I think they should implement some other way for people dissatisfied/disappointed/immediately struggling with their module to either swap or get a refund within the first few hours/days of purchase. I think that might actually convince a few more (young) people to take the leap and purchase a module.

 

But having swapped one module in the past, are we supposed to rebind them to our original accounts? or will that actually be seen as another trade?

Edited November 5, 2016 by RalphNLD

[majapahit]

I had just discovered this trade keys ‘market’, Kinquin etc. I bought couple of IL-2 games, with the old ones cheap, just for fun.

 

I saw a couple of DCS modules there also.

 

This means you cannot buy/these are blacklisted, keys for DCS products anymore that are listed on Kingquin etc.?

 

Or are these still legit keys/people got them just not using them? or, needs to be keys that have never been activated?

[BIGNEWY]

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/714/

 

 

Invalid DCS World Keys purchased from other sources

 

Only DCS World keys purchased from the DCS World E-shop and Steam are valid and can be activated in the Module Manager.

Any DCS World keys purchased from other sources are invalid and are simply trying to re-sell keys that are bound to other users.

Such sites include Kinguin and CDExpress.

 

If you purchase such invalid DCS World keys from these sites, we cannot help you. We suggest you contact these sites for a refund.

[Abburo]

This kind of announcement should be written on the site and forum frontpage and also included in the email announcements.

 

It is subject of "incident management" involving payment so that it is clearly of maximum importance so you need to inform properly all your customers. ED, please take this as an action point now and in future. Not all your customers are looking into the forums digging for such announcements.

[majapahit]

This kind of announcement should be written on the site and forum frontpage and also included in the email announcements.

 

It is subject of "incident management" involving payment so that it is clearly of maximum importance so you need to inform properly all your customers. ED, please take this as an action point now and in future. Not all your customers are looking into the forums digging for such announcements.

 

Coming to think of it, I think, changing the EULA (it is isn't it) cannot matter for issued keys previous to the change, or rather, that can be contested.

 

In particular when you ‘gift’ system is not in place yet (and looked at) small print neither cannot diverse too much from what is to be deemed ‘acceptable’ in the same field of products or can be contested.

 

2 cts.

[BIGNEWY]

The EULA has not changed as far as I am aware.

 

The FAQ has been up for a while, it was put there to help users who had purchased keys from these other sources only to find the key was still bound to the original user.

 

In those cases it is out of ED's control, buying from official sources is the only way you know you will have no issues.

[majapahit]

The EULA has not changed as far as I am aware.

 

The FAQ has been up for a while, it was put there to help users who had purchased keys from these other sources only to find the key was still bound to the original user.

 

In those cases it is out of ED's control, buying from official sources is the only way you know you will have no issues.

 

 

 

Okidoki, this leaves still one minor caveat though, that in the case of an issued serial number but that has never been submitted to DCS to register ownership and this would be actually beyond DCS’ horizon of the whereabouts of all serial numbers, it seems to me those might be the serial numbers that one might still see appear to be traded or gifted still, which if one thinks about this, this seems also somewhat fair when one could estimate these have never been put to actual usage?

 

This would seem to be of no real concern to DCS if DCS would be concerned to the fairness of ‘he who plays should pay’. (This is getting somewhat academic, but now that I have taken the trouble of typing this I might as well post :) )

[BIGNEWY]

If a key has been generated and not bound it was still generated by ED, for the Eshop or Steam and can be traced to those sources.

 

The gift system will hopefully resolve the issue, we will just have to wait for ED to implement it.

[Johnny Dioxin]

This really blows. I just purchased two modules for someone else (I already have them) and now I find I am stuck with them and I have to tell him that he can't have them.

 

Not happy at all.

 

It's easy to start saying clever things like "Check the EULA" but I would say that every company I have ever had an account with has informed people when they changed their EULA or any important policy (and not by a simple post in an out of the way part of their forum - or on any forum).

 

This has really kicked me in the nuts. I don't have money to throw away.

 

PS - If we can't do this any more then the option that shows on the account page to unbind a code and bind it to another account should be removed. I feel conned.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Brixmis

[cichlidfan]

Considering how many keys I have given away over the years. This situation was very poorly handled.

 

One would think that this might warrant an announcement at the top of the forum, in the same way that server maintenance gets announced, so that everyone sees it.

 

My two cents.

[secret1962]

The EULA has indeed changed if we cannot transfer keys anymore...

[cichlidfan]

The EULA has indeed changed if we cannot transfer keys anymore...

 

Unless I am mistaken, the EULA wording never allowed for transferring keys in the first place. The wording of the EULA indicates that you do not own the software but merely have a license to use it and that license is not transferrable.

 

EDIT: I stand corrected. This is from the current EULA posted here:

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/license/

 

9.1 You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this Licence to the recipient, provided that the recipient agrees to the terms of this Licence and you remove the Program from your computer.

 

I guess this makes ED, temporarily, in violation of their EULA.

Edited November 7, 2016 by cichlidfan

[NineLine]

 

I guess this makes ED, temporarily, in violation of their EULA.

 

I think thats a little sarcastic dont you, obviously they are adjusting the system and looking at gifting and will adjust the EULA as needed. Not sure how ED is violating their own EULA when all they did was shut down key transfer to look at a better, less exploitable system.

 

Lets not turn this thread into a witch hunt or something its not...

[secret1962]

I think thats a little sarcastic dont you, obviously they are adjusting the system and looking at gifting and will adjust the EULA as needed. Not sure how ED is violating their own EULA when all they did was shut down key transfer to look at a better, less exploitable system.

 

Lets not turn this thread into a witch hunt or something its not...

 

Adjusting the system means adjusting the EULA.

I think it will have to be modified with the new system. I'm curious how they are planning to do it, it's probably not going to work in the old way anyway.

[BIGNEWY]

The system was setup to gift keys, some people abused it and used it to trade keys, so things have to change.

 

If they do change it, it will hopefully make it even clearer that trading keys is against the EULA, as it has always been.

 

 

As stated before we will have to wait for ED to setup the new gifting system to find out.

[secret1962]

The system was setup to gift keys, some people abused it and used it to trade keys, so things have to change.

 

If they do change it, it will hopefully make it even clearer that trading keys is against the EULA, as it has always been.

 

 

As stated before we will have to wait for ED to setup the new gifting system to find out.

 

Well one could have a module that just doesn't like, and his friend has another module that he doesn't like, so they gift the modules each other. How do you really define trading ? Isn't that just gifting ? How can you even say people are trading keys ?

That may aswell just be two people gifting keys each other. This is not very clear, or is it ?

Gifting is not an EULA violation.

Edited November 6, 2016 by secret1962

[BIGNEWY]

Well one could have a module that just doesn't like, and his friend has another module that he doesn't like, so they gift the modules each other. How do you really define trading ? Isn't that just gifting ? How can you even say people are trading keys ?

That may aswell just be two people gifting keys each other. This is not very clear, or is it ?

Gifting is not an EULA violation.

 

 

Gifting is not a violation, the system was setup to gift. Obviously the trading of keys has gotten so bad ED had to do something about it, so it is suspended until ED find a better way of dealing with gifting. It is that simple.

[Abburo]

Gifting is not a violation, the system was setup to gift. Obviously the trading of keys has gotten so bad ED had to do something about it, so it is suspended until ED find a better way of dealing with gifting. It is that simple.

 

Exactly my point. This is an "major incident" which is now in mitigation phase. Until it will be fixed all customers have to be informed by all means ... and here I refer mainly to email notification to all of them. Not small FAQ/EULA changes or forum debates.

 

Why is this this a major incident? Because involves money fraud and this is one of the most critical events. I was almost ready to buy another gift... if I wouldn't saw that notification I was going to buy it. I also own some modules since some time ago, keeping there ready to be gifted for Christmas ... what should I do now?

 

ED needs to use this opportunity and to correct their internal processes for such cases.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Yup - no problem with them doing this, problem with not letting us know in a proper manner and doing me out of £32+

 

I won't be spending any more on ED products and I won't encourage others to any more.

 

This kind of behaviour is not excusable. If they had even removed the function from the website, it would be different - but they haven't. the Unbind and bind to another account boxes are still there, and there is no way for some unsuspecting person - as I was - to know that it won't work.

 

You can sit there arguing as much as you like - the facts speak for themselves.

[cichlidfan]

I think thats a little sarcastic dont you, ...

 

Lets not turn this thread into a witch hunt or something its not...

 

It was intended to be sarcastic. Notice that I did say temporarily. I am not hunting witches, that was a week ago, and I still have too much leftover bait...err candy. ;)

 

I do get that ED needs to protect their IP, however, communication could have been done better.

Edited November 7, 2016 by cichlidfan

[majapahit]

actually

this mentioning of the original

 

"9.1 You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this Licence to the recipient, provided that the recipient agrees to the terms of this Licence and you remove the Program from your computer."

 

then the remark

“Obviously the trading of keys has gotten so bad ED had to do something about it”

 

there is something to observe here.

 

- 9.1. describes a proper transfer of licence

- the statement “Obviously the trading of keys has gotten so bad” seems tendentious

 

when trading of keys adheres to 9.1,

such trading of keys cannot be ‘bad’

 

Perhaps I cannot read all the facts about what is exactly happening but all this can be read that ED is somewhat jealous of rights owners transferring data in keeping with 9.1,

 

and merely wanted to Extend their hold of monetization of rights by interfering and limiting their previous 9.1, which reads as quite acceptable behaviour from a vital user community.

 

ED is perhaps getting somewhat ‘greedy’ and, this can be argued, unjustly so.

 

Unless I am missing something.

[VincentLaw]

I agree that this is a serious issue. In the past I gifted keys to two different non-DCS players who never bound their keys, and I was holding onto another key for a third person. All of these keys are currently at zero activations, and I suspect if the people I gifted these keys to tried to bind them, it would not work. None of these people have current DCS accounts for me to ask customer service to transfer the keys to either, since they never played DCS.

 

Until ED implements their new gift system, I have zero assurance that these keys will ever be more than dead weight. What if ED decided to implement a gift system that only worked with new purchases? Since I already own duplicates of all the products I gifted, I can't even use them for myself, and since refunds are banned, even for zero activation duplicates, there is no way for me to get my money back. I do not consider the current situation acceptable, but I hope it will be corrected in the near future.

 

I hope the concerns of my situation are taken into account when designing the new gifting system.

 

(I am of course very satisfied with DCS products themselves, which is why I gifted DCS to people in the first place.)

Edited November 7, 2016 by VincentLaw

[CrimsonGhost]

This may not be a popular post, but basically ED implemented a stop gap measure to prevent the transfer of keys in a manner they do not approve of. It clearly was not well thought out and appears to be a completely reactive not proactive measure. This could have been handled and communicated in a much better manner but profit was at stake. And at the end of the day that's what ED is all about. As is any business. But in this case, like many others, the actions of the minority punish the majority. Kinda like gun control if you know what I mean.

 

In my case ED transferred the licenses I purchased as a gift for my friend to his account. But this certainly appears to be a black eye on ED and they are now scrambling to solve a problem that they created without thinking of the consequences. The ones I really feel sorry for are the moderators that are now having to try to help save face while the development team hurries for a fix. I do apologize as I am not typically one to leave negative posts but ED brought this on themselves.

Edited November 7, 2016 by CrimsonGhost
Typo

[SkateZilla]

This may not be a popular post, but basically ED implemented a stop gap measure to prevent the transfer of keys in a manner they do not approve of. It clearly was not well thought out and appears to be a completely reactive not proactive measure. This could have been handled and communicated in a much better manner but profit was at stake. And at the end of the day that's what ED is all about. As is any business. But in this case, like many others, the actions of the minority punish the majority. Kinda like gun control if you know what I mean.

 

In my case ED transferred the licenses I purchased as a gift for my friend to his account. But this certainly appears to be a black eye on ED and they are now scrambling to solve a problem that they created without thinking of the consequences. The ones I really feel sorry for are the moderators that are now having to try to help save face while the development team hurries for a fix. I do apologize as I am not typically one to leave negative posts but ED brought this on themselves.

 

 

ED did not "Create" the Problem, EULA Abusers Created the Problem.

 

That's the nitty gritty of it.

 

Dont blame a publisher/developer for people Violating the EULA.

[NineLine]

Yeah this issue wasn't created by ED, this was an option they thought would be beneficial to the user base, and it was. But as described above, it was abused, and not by casual users so much, but obviously with any cheat or exploit its the people that did do it correctly that end up effected the most. I hope the gifting option will rectify that for the most part as I do use it from time to time myself. Obviously the EULA will be updated accordingly with that new system.