AA gun accuracy

[Reflected]

I don't know if you've ever tried to attack ground targets with anything slower than an F-15. You make one pass over a gun with a P-51 screaming at 300 miles, and the plane is shot up completely. YOu enter the range of the guns witha Huey and you are dead in 2 seconds.

 

Can we have something a little more realistic? It makes slower planes completely useless against ground targets that can shoot back. WWII planes, helos, etc...

[razo+r]

make more and better maneuvers

 

also, turn their skill level down

[Haukka81]

Old problem , dcs ground AI is very good to shoot. Even with iron sights :D.

 

 

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[Deezle]

They are much, much worse shots than they used to be, thankfully. If you are heading straight towards them, you're still a fairly easy target.

[Haukka81]

Bmb 2 is still king :)

 

 

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[Zimmerdylan]

:pilotfly:

They are much, much worse shots than they used to be, thankfully. If you are heading straight towards them, you're still a fairly easy target.

 

 

Yeah....For a short while there in 2.o3 they were absolutely terrible shots. They weren't even firing in my direction lots of the time.

 

For the OP: Your best bet on the AA is to do one of two things. 1. gain lots of altitude and come at them from a steep, high angle and drop bombs or rockets at them from a higher altitude. It took me a while but I got to where I have a very good kill ratio doing that.

The other thing that I like to do is fly around them and have them shoot at me. You can see the tracers well enough that you only have to maneuver up or down a little bit to avoid the rounds coming at you. It's pretty easy. And when you notice that they have just fired the last of a load, they need a short time to reload the gun, it's the perfect time to go for the kill. If they're part of a convoy or just out in the middle of nowhere without supplies, you can just maneuver around at a safe alt to avoid their fire until they just run completely out of ammo.

At first it's a daunting task to kill em, but after a while, you learn their patterns and habits and it becomes more of a chore than a hazard.

Stick with it and you'll catch on to them. You just need to get out of those comfy modern cockpits once in a while and spend some time in the old planes and get use to it. I use to have the same complaint and even though it's probably a valid gripe, it's relatively easy to overcome once you get use to regular ground attack missions.

I just finished a mission where I had 1 P-51 and took out 3 AA guns, 3 BTR-80's and a bunch of trucks. I got hit once or twice and that was it. Made it home safe! So it's doable.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Zimmerdylan

[Reflected]

make more and better maneuvers

 

also, turn their skill level down

 

In a ....HUEY? :noexpression:

[shagrat]

In a ....HUEY? :noexpression:

Not sure if this is meant ironic, but indeed the Huey can pretty easy outmaneuver normal AAA.

 

If you read a bit what Vietnam pilots did or today's helicopter pilots train, it isn't hard.

 

Whenever you see the muzzle flash and tracers coming towards you change at least two parameters from speed, course, height.

The trick is the gunner needs to judge your flight path and shoots at a point you will be in a few seconds. Now as soon as you alter your flight path you will be in a different spot when the bullets meet the air you were supposed to be.

 

Now if you have door gunners with miniguns and you manage to give them a stable platform for a few seconds, they can slot a ZSU-23 most of the time in a few runs.

 

-If possible attack with a wingman (two or more helicopters mean distraction).

 

-Never fly straight towards the AAA or straight away from it. Always cross diagonally or circle.

 

-maneuver every couple seconds or immediately when you see the gun firing

Change at least two parameters.

 

-always try to keep some height (80-100ft minimum more is better) when engaging, both to have room to maneuver/change course and height and have a way to drop the helicopter to speed up. Especially useful when you need to get the hell outta there.

 

I had a few occasions when I tried to get low (chased for cover) and in fact were pinned with ground below and not enough speed to go high and still have enough speed to maneuver aka sitting duck.

 

If you want to evade, outflank AAA low and fast is often ok, if you don't pass to close, but if you attack, always try to keep some height and speed, though maneuvering. ;)

Edited November 24, 2016 by shagrat

[Reflected]

And how exactly do you take out something without flying towards it for at least 2 seconds? Ok, there must be a way to dodge bullets and delay your fiery demise, but if AA guns had been this accurate nobody would have survived a complete tour in Vietnam. Not saying there are no workarounds in DCS. I'm saying it's unrealistically accurate even at low skill level. The lack of detailed DM adds fuel to the fire, because if you are hit you are basically dead.

[razo+r]

I didn't mean it ironic, seriously

 

I flew the P-51 against four zu-23, and non of them hit me, unless i flew straight at one

 

For the helo, There are a few ways

 

If possible, use hills for cover

 

Dodge all bullets until they fire a little burst, like 5-10 Tracers, that's the moment where you have time for about 5 - 15 seconds to destroy them, because they're reloading, so know that little weakspot (if it's a ZU-23 emplacement or on a truck, but that doesn't apply to something like a Shilka, Tunguska, Gepard and that modern stuff)

 

Always try to vary your Flight path, fly as weird or agressiv as possible, might help a bit

 

Also, AI has "Aimbot", so they always know where they have to shsoot exactly, unless you vary your Flight path

 

Human players would stay on the Fire button and just spray everything they got to you, maybe that would be even worse, also, since they aren't locked on the perfect solution, they might fire somewhere, where you would go, and then they'll maybe get a lucky hit

 

Also, Activating the AI Gunner and Copilot to Free to fire might help a bit too

[shagrat]

And how exactly do you take out something without flying towards it for at least 2 seconds? Ok, there must be a way to dodge bullets and delay your fiery demise, but if AA guns had been this accurate nobody would have survived a complete tour in Vietnam. Not saying there are no workarounds in DCS. I'm saying it's unrealistically accurate even at low skill level. The lack of detailed DM adds fuel to the fire, because if you are hit you are basically dead.

With a Huey, as I explained in my post above. Door gunners and flying like a Huey pilot...

[Mr_sukebe]

I'm going to re-open this discussion, as both AAA and Flak really are ridiculously accurate.

Yes, I know that you can "mitigate" against that by deliberately weaving, but that's just abusing poor game logic to make it for poor design.

 

Please find linked a track file from yesterday (sorry, too big to upload).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vgt5Ewk2SwOEf0kGSjWsExl83dFIn89K/view?usp=sharing

This is a bunch of Flak units shooting up a group of Mosquitoes at fairly short range.

 

My understanding of real Flak units are that they'd typically use time based "fusing" of their shells based upon "spotters", or radar intel.

So in this case, we have a group of Flak who are already warmed up, but are instantly able to reset their fusing to the correct altitude and track an aircraft flying at 250mph with an 88mm gun.

Just think through the practicalities of:

• a spotter seeing an aircraft say 3 miles away, then needing to guestimate not only the range, but also the expected location in say 10 seconds
• Those 10 seconds are the time then available for the person loading the gun to screw the timer the exactly the right amount of delay, followed by actually loading the round
• The gun being traversed and elevated to exactly the right level in the same 10 seconds

etc

 

Against a fast moving fairly low target, I just don't see it happening.

 

I did find a manual about the Flak88, which did show that minimum fusing could be VERY low.  So theoretically, it could be used against a low target.  In practice, my assumption is that they were probably only ever fired against "high" flying predictable targets such as bombers.

 

Do let me know if you want further examples.

This really is killing for game immersion.

Can we limit the engagement of Flak to ignore everything but say a B17?

Edited September 21, 2021 by Mr_sukebe