The Détecteur de Départ Missile (DDM)

[Maulkin]

These are all opinions. Just because the French 'C' variant didnt use it does not definitively mean it couldnt. Please provide proof that the system would never function on the 'C' variant. Personally, I would like to see all systems implemented. The moment you start talking about 'balance' then you are talking about a game. I want a simulator.

[red_coreSix]

These are all opinions. Just because the French 'C' variant didnt use it does not definitively mean it couldnt. Please provide proof that the system would never function on the 'C' variant. Personally, I would like to see all systems implemented. The moment you start talking about 'balance' then you are talking about a game. I want a simulator.

 

Noone is talking about balance, and if you want a simulator then mounting a system on an aircraft which it never carried is not the way to go.

[WinterH]

Noone is talking about balance, and if you want a simulator then mounting a system on an aircraft which it never carried is not the way to go.

 

+1 there really isn't much else to discuss :).

[Rlaxoxo]

People still talking about this?

 

Geez ...

[Maulkin]

Noone is talking about balance, and if you want a simulator then mounting a system on an aircraft which it never carried is not the way to go.

Please show the data that proves this.

[TomCatMucDe]

Noone is talking about balance, and if you want a simulator then mounting a system on an aircraft which it never carried is not the way to go.

 

so having the Mirage flying in Caucasus is not a simulation? It never participated in any war there. Problbably it never even flew there.

 

The Mirage can carry D2M, it is as irrealistic to mount it as to have a war scenario with the Mirage or the Viggen in Caucasus.

[Whisper]

Don't like it? Don't put it in your missions. That's why Razbam made it optional. Can we stop this useless drivel?

[Whisper]

Please mate you will say that after you actually test the thing in combat.

 

 

That's what I did. Most of the warning were coming from my teammates shooting while we were close. Absolute game changer!

[myHelljumper]

Don't like it? Don't put it in your missions. That's why Razbam made it optional. Can we stop this useless drivel?

 

Yes please

[Maulkin]

Yes please

+1

[Bogey Jammer]

Please show the data that proves this.

 

Prove yourself that it has been mounted then… because I can post as many picture of 2000C without it as you want which proves nothing, you just need one to prove your point. Anyway it is pointless to install the D2M if the aircraft is going to be a new variant or replaced by the Rafale. The only way to get hope is to check the Egyptian Mirages, I don't see any other 2000C equivalent around now.

 

so having the Mirage flying in Caucasus is not a simulation? It never participated in any war there. Problbably it never even flew there.

 

The Mirage can carry D2M, it is as irrealistic to mount it as to have a war scenario with the Mirage or the Viggen in Caucasus.

 

Don't play dumb. Sorry if I can't speak german to make this clear for you but even if you can mount the D2M on a 2000C, toggle the D2M switch on, it will never work because the internal hardware needs to be upgraded, wich was never done on a 2000C

ok???

R-27 have been adapted on some India's Mirage 2000 so will you ask RAZBAM to implement them in the same fashion as the D2M ?

Don't like it? Don't put it in your missions. That's why Razbam made it optional. Can we stop this useless drivel?

 

+1

 

You don't like it? don't read it then :P leave the ones who still have arguments left to continue the discussion.

[Hook47]

Easy on the caps there, Bogey, no need to get hostile about all this. No one is saying the system was on the M2000C, however everyone here knows the manufacture could have enabled it if they wanted to, and Razbam adding it is fufillimg a believable "what if" type situation that correlates with how the loss of a M2000N (IIRC) was handled (The addition of D2M)

 

Razbam has made this optional, and I fully agree with how they handled it. The thread was for discussing the system and how it works in DCS, not arguing endlessly about it being in the sim. Let's just step back and relax

[Esac_mirmidon]

Please Bogey, dont shout.

 

Thanks.

[Rlaxoxo]

The heck is wrong with you guys ...?

 

Don't like it? Then don't use is period.

[cauldron]

Bogey Jammer,

 

Your assumed superiority in rational thought needs some re-evaluation. At the moment from your posts its very obvious you are at best disrespectful in debating these themes.

 

You will convince no one who is reading your posts of any legitimacy in the content you provide.

[Hook47]

The heck is wrong with you guys ...?

 

Don't like it? Then don't use is period.

 

Totally agree- and thanks to Razbam for not only putting in the time to add the extra content, which I think is awesome, but also giving us the option of disabling it when we see fit

[Bogey Jammer]

Ok I stop ;)

And I'll use it whenever I can :P

[TomCatMucDe]

The Détecteur de Départ Missile (DDM)

 

Prove yourself that it has been mounted then… because I can post as many picture of 2000C without it as you want which proves nothing, you just need one to prove your point. Anyway it is pointless to install the D2M if the aircraft is going to be a new variant or replaced by the Rafale. The only way to get hope is to check the Egyptian Mirages, I don't see any other 2000C equivalent around now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't play dumb. Sorry if I can't speak german to make this clear for you but even if you can mount the D2M on a 2000C, toggle the D2M switch on, it will never work because the internal hardware needs to be upgraded, wich was never done on a 2000C

 

ok???

 

R-27 have been adapted on some India's Mirage 2000 so will you ask RAZBAM to implement them in the same fashion as the D2M ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't like it? don't read it then :P leave the ones who still have arguments left to continue the discussion.

 

 

Ton problème c'est pas que tu ne parles pas allemand. C'est ton logique ou du moins ton deux poids deux mesures. Sur le Mig t as rien dit. Sur l A10 avec 6 Mavericks t as rien dit... Le Mirage 2000C peut transporter ces pods. Mais l'armée française ne l'a pas fait puisque l'attack au sol est délaissé aux M2000D et N qui ont l'embarque.

 

Nice try to try to want to be disrespectful to Germans but as you see I am NOT!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited December 22, 2016 by TomCatMucDe

[Maulkin]

Why so aggressive? I only asked you to provide definitive facts to back up your claim. I have just as much proof as you do apparently and there are pictures of the cockpit with the light under the RWR and the switch to turn it on (as modelled by Razbam). I simply ask you if you have more information other than historic practices, which do not indicate what the aircraft was capable of, only how it was used by France. No need to be aggressive.

 

I would request you temper your tone.

 

Don't play dumb. Sorry if I can't speak german to make this clear for you but even if you can mount the D2M on a 2000C, toggle the D2M switch on, it will never work because the internal hardware needs to be upgraded, wich was never done on a 2000C

ok???

 

What is your source?

Edited December 22, 2016 by Maulkin

[Bogey Jammer]

Why so aggressive? I only asked you to provide definitive facts to back up your claim…

I would request you temper your tone.

What is your source?

I did not intent to be this aggressive with you and I'm sure I wasn't. You don't need to repeat what others already said 4 times either…

 

About the sources, there is no one on the internet. I would need to buy books that have to be found used so no thanks I prefer to be the loser today :D

[jojo]

Why so aggressive? I only asked you to provide definitive facts to back up your claim. I have just as much proof as you do apparently and there are pictures of the cockpit with the light under the RWR and the switch to turn it on (as modelled by Razbam). I simply ask you if you have more information other than historic practices, which do not indicate what the aircraft was capable of, only how it was used by France. No need to be aggressive.

 

I would request you temper your tone.

 

 

 

What is your source?

 

From a pure logical point of view, if we say the D²M has never been used on Mirage 2000C, you have to prove us wrong with a picture.

 

About the Mirage 2000N upgrade:

http://www.guerrelec.asso.fr/archives/lettre13uk.pdf

 

Like I said before, it isn't"plug & play.

Maybe the DDM could have been upgraded to Mirage 2000C, but we enter the "what if" world.

 

In the end there is no big deal.

 

Razbam took his decision, half the people are happy, the other half not. That's the way it is.

[ESAc_matador]

Razbam took his decision, half the people are happy, the other half not. That's the way it is.

 

Seriously doubt it.

[zaelu]

From a pure logical point of view, if we say the D²M has never been used on Mirage 2000C, you have to prove us wrong with a picture.

 

 

That's like proving god does not exists with a picture. :megalol:

 

Also the argument of TomCatMucDe that other modules are not realistically depicted so this one should do the same, is weak. How about we should not ask more than FC3 level since we have half of the DCS planes at that level?

 

The problem with this debate is that it just dances around the main point.

 

Multiplayer fairness.

 

The rest is BS. You can mod M2KC to carry anything even the so called Nukes from Mig21. It's not an issue.

 

Having people cheering at this system with hearts pumping of emotion on how "cool" they will be in multiplayer with something unreal and arcade like but certain they will not be called cheaters is an issue.

 

Game changer, game changer, game changer cried the folks, remember? Why would someone playing a single player mission be so excited about some system beeping unrealistically that an enemy F15C launched an AIM-9 from almost 12 O'clock?? What's the heroism? You can toggle radio assist and have Betty screaming missile 12 O'Clock high at you.

 

Seriously. I consider this a pure lie or at least self-lie. You are fooling yourself.

People want the edge on multiplayer and if the edge is a feature that would be called Arcade or Cheat normally, but being justified by some convoluted logic suddenly is fair and to be accepted.

 

 

This system will never be used where supposedly it niches. Avoiding manpads. No... it will be mostly be activated in multiplayer to offer a bit of hope in dodging enemy missiles. Stop pretending otherwise, nobody cares you dodge a SAM launch you visually missed in mission 27 of some campaign. And every time the system will be bugged by an update that will push it out of it's limitations its fan users will secretly cheer. But here... they try to act "realistically gentlemen".

 

For me. This is a cheat. Like auto rudder and take off assist, etc. It should be default OFF not ON. Sorry to break your "I feel good about myself bubble". Merry Christmas!

Edited December 24, 2016 by zaelu

[Robin_Hood]

Zaelu, I think you are reading jojo wrong. What he said is that a picture would be needed to prove that the Mirage 2000C has the DDM (ie, he was agreeing with you). What he is saying (as he as said several times) is that the Mirage 2000C has, to his or (up to now) anyone's knowledge, never used the DDM ; also that it would require an update to do so (how big an update is anyone's guess).

 

I think you are unfair, though, calling unrealistic or arcade-ey. I can see how it could be called a cheat, sure, but not "something unreal and arcade like". The DDM exists, it is not unreal or arcade-like in itself. What is probably unrealistic is its presence on the aircraft (it can always be justified by what-ifs and alternate history or near-future settings, but in a realistic and historical setting, it should not be there).

 

What you might want to do instead, is start lobbying (I don't use that in a pejorative way) for the DDM to be deactivated from some serious multiplayer servers (IMO, a server set in the 80s or 90s should not use it).

 

Of course, personally I don't really care since I do not play in public servers, or play PvP much. I understand the concern, though (both in terms of fairness - a word that I think is better suited than "balance", here - and of realism).

 

Merry Christmas to you!

 

PS: to me the issue is almost exactly the same as the NVGs: would require an not too big upgrade to have it available. Except in the case of the NVGs, the update has actually been done IRL (but not in DCS).

Edited December 24, 2016 by Robin_Hood

[red_coreSix]

What you might want to do instead, is start lobbying (I don't use that in a pejorative way) for the DDM to be deactivated from some serious multiplayer servers (IMO, a server set in the 80s or 90s should not use it).

 

Main problem for me isn't even that it's in the Sim but rather that it's on by default and is a pain to disable in missions. Most people that aren't actively flying the mirage will never know this has even been added and since it's on by default most servers have it enabled. The system should be off and if people really want to use it they can manually enable it, also makes it easier for server owners to disable.

 

Merry Christmas guys! :)