Introducing the VPC MongoosT-50

[wasserfall]

черная пятница в белой россии :)

[dburne]

Finally. My monthlong wait is almost over. Confirmation that my VirPil Dual Stick Nobbifier bundle is on it’s way to my door as we speak!

Can’t wait. Now wondering whether or not to do an unboxing.

 

:thumbup:

 

Might as well do the unboxing, cause I assure you once you have that puppy hooked up all you are going to want to do is fly baby fly!

[graxxor]

It’s currently being dispatched from the international terminal. They said EMS... is that Air or Sea shipping, I wonder.

[dburne]

It’s currently being dispatched from the international terminal. They said EMS... is that Air or Sea shipping, I wonder.

 

Not real sure, maybe both.

I know on my initial pre-order of the Virpil setup, they provided free expedited shipping for those that ordered early on. My first got here in about 7 days.

When I ordered a second gimbal, it took it more like 14 days or so to get to me.

[graxxor]

Was 14 days the time from ordering or the time once shipped?

[dburne]

Was 14 days the time from ordering or the time once shipped?

 

They shipped my second one pretty quick, so it was about overall.

[graxxor]

Don, thanks...

 

@cyph3r

 

In the photo you sent me showing the thumb button and mount, I notice it was plugged into a two pin header on a circuit board in the grip.

 

I also notice that this in-grip circuit board has plenty of space but no connection pads for extra headers, unlike the gimble circuit board which looks eminently expandable.

 

For those who don’t, know, I’m looking to replace the thumb button with a 4 or 5 way hat.

So Is there any way to pass a cable from the grip through to the circuit board in the base without too much modification?

 

Is the grip sealed or is there a gap that the cable can be fed through (I notice that the warthog compatible DIN connector is free floating and not inset which means there is a chance that an extra four core hat switch cable could squeeze through, no?

 

TIA.

[LeCuvier]

New Monstertech mounting plate for the T-50

 

I had been in contact with Monstertech http://www.monstertech.de suggesting that they make a mounting plate for the T-50, and providing them with the necessary information. Today I received their prototype and installed it.

The mounting plate is a very solid piece of Aluminium. For installation, you take the U-bracket off from the T-50 and replace it with the vertical part of the mounting plate, using the original screws from VPC. The horizontal part of the mounting plate is screwed to the Monstertech table mount. Very simple and very solid.

This approach makes sense to me as the T-50 is rather high and if you would fix it through the bottom of the gimbal as some people suggested, the grip would stick up too high for comfort.

The mounting plate should be available via Monstertech's web site very soon.

Edited November 27, 2017 by LeCuvier

[Barefoot Bandit]

I had been in contact with Monstertech http://www.monstertech.de suggesting that they make a mounting plate for the T-50, and providing them with the necessary information. Today I received their prototype and installed it.

The mounting plate is a very solid piece of Aluminium. For installation, you take the U-bracket off from the T-50 and replace it with the vertical part of the mounting plate, using the original screws from VPC. The horizontal part of the mounting plate is screwed to the Monstertech table mount. Very simple and very solid.

This approach makes sense to me as the T-50 is rather high and if you would fix it through the bottom of the gimbal as some people suggested, the grip would stick up too high for comfort.

The mounting plate should be available via Monstertech's web site very soon.

 

Oddly enough, I have actually come up with a near identical design to use as a desk top base - though a longer front section that goes down to the bottom, with a cut out for the cable. I have not yet had a chance to make it.

 

Z...

Edited November 28, 2017 by Barefoot Bandit

[Len62]

Oddly enough, I have actually come up with a near identical design to use as a desk top base - though a longer front section that goes down to the bottom, with a cut out for the cable. I have not yet had a chance to make it.

 

Z...

 

That's pretty much the same plan I have also. Hopefully I'll get to make one in about two or three weeks.

[Barefoot Bandit]

That's pretty much the same plan I have also. Hopefully I'll get to make one in about two or three weeks.

 

 

That's my timeline too. Xmas is crazy for me for work, so getting the time to get it sorted... :helpsmilie:

 

Z...

[graxxor]

My Dual T-50s arrived to but I'm not getting on with the Virpil mounts... They are solid as a rock and will outlast me, no questions asked.. However, they put the joysticks just too far from the screen. I have to have the chair so far back that I can barely reach the keyboard on the desk without leaning forward...

 

They're a whole 18 inches back from the previous placement

 

I have just realised that with a small mod, I could screw the mounting bracket with the two top and two bottom holes directly into my wooden desk. (It's old and was free, so I don't care about holes if I have to move them.)

I'll let you know if it works.

Edited November 29, 2017 by graxxor

[dburne]

My Dual T-50s arrived to but I'm not getting on with the Virpil mounts... They are solid as a rock and will outlast me, no questions asked.. However, they put the joysticks just too far from the screen. I have to have the chair so far back that I can barely reach the keyboard on the desk without leaning forward....

 

Yeah, obviously they designed the desk mount to accommodate if anyone wants to use all the extension kit so would still have clearance at full forward. It would have been nice if that mount had been made adjustable as well.

 

I fly in VR so it is not really an issue for me, as I am not using the keyboard much if at all.

[graxxor]

Got my Dual T50s up and running and here are my first impressions of their physical condition.

Haven’t had time for playtedting yet.

 

Shipping:

 

12-14 days became 39 days to arrive. I live in the centre of Tokyo where amazon delivers within 2 hours sometimes, so the delays were on their end. 36 days.

 

In fairness I was offered A refund.

 

Packaging:

 

Packaging was good quality and tight. No play or bits and bobs floating around.

 

Base and Gimbal:

 

Bases are solid and very well built. They arrived in pristine condition, not a single scratch or burr... They were lighter than I imagined, due to aluminium construction.

The gimbals actions were ok, however the gimbal of the right hand joystick is slightly rougher than the left one.

Moreover, there is some sort of very slight discontinuity in the gradient of the cam, perhaps imperfect machining.

I asked for them to install the softest springs since I'm not using extensions but alas, they came with standard springs. It took about an hour to replace both gimbals' springs... I wanted to replace the cams, too, but was entirely unable to undo the screws which had been locktited in place so I left them in.

Still with the softest springs, responsiveness increased markedly and the slight roughness in the right hand gimbal abated.

 

Internally, the extreme build quality is apparent... VERY nice gimbal construction... These things are 100% metal. No faffing with massaging balls with dodgy lube (!).

The electronics are custom built and firmly mounted with a very tidy little circuit board.

 

Grip:

 

Coming from the Saitek X65F, I was surprised that neither the material of the grips themselves nor the actions of the switches were quite up to the standard of that joystick....

Before you do a double WTSF, SAITEK???!?!?!111 Please read a review of the Saitek X65F... It was an incredible, all metal construction force joystick, superbly over engineered and perhaps the ONLY high quality joystick Saitek ever made. Incredible.

Don't get me wrong, the quality is still very high, but just not THAT high. If you come from a metal grip, you won't help but think.... Hmmm... That's very... plasticky.

One thing they did very well though is the ergonomics... There are two adjustable hand-rests available and within minutes, I was comfortably reaching even the most remote hat and switch on the grip.

Both left and right felt like they were made for my hands.

 

Hats and Switches:

 

This is my biggest gripe. The buttons were fine, but the hats... Oh dear... firstly, while I know that appearance isn’t important (CH look terrible but last years) they just look... cheap.

Maybe it’s the grey colour, who knows but again, coming from the gorgeous Saitek X65F, they are a big step down.

But importantly, and not just cosmetically, of the six hats (between the two joysticks) three of them had faulty actions.

 

Top centre hat on LH joystick has no left or right feedback and response was intermittent.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bojiw4l4ll...%2049.mov?dl=0

 

Bottom centre hat on RH joystick had a faulty left action. Need to REALLY press hard to get a response.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yq2zsu1mxu...%2027.mov?dl=0

 

The bottom centre hat on LH joystick was also very heavy in the LH direct, but not quite as serious as the right.

 

Once I have time to play with them a bit, I'll keep you informed of how things pan out.

 

Have put in a request for replacement parts.

 

Software:

 

There is none. Nada. Although I found reference to some beta software somewhere and also a passage stating that you’ll Fsck things up if you use windows calibration, so I’m leaving them alone for the time being.

 

Other:

 

Also, although someone on this thread said they got a set of dust covers for their trouble, I didn’t.

 

In conclusion. The gimbal is A- grade (knocked off points for very slight oddness in the one cam.

The grip Gets s B+. It’s just feels too light (although not flimsy) and is let down badly by substandard switches.

 

Overall, considering the reviews I’ve seen, I’m a touch disappointed but will very gladly change my opinion if their after sales service lives up to its reputation.

Edited November 30, 2017 by graxxor

[Barefoot Bandit]

You're in Tokyo? Love the place, was there just a few weeks back (I try to go there twice a year). It's one of the few places where I have "3 dinners"...

 

Got my Dual T50s up and running and here are my first impressions...

 

 

Hats and Switches:

 

This is my biggest gripe. The buttons were fine, but the hats... Oh dear... firstly, while I know that appearance isn’t important (CH look terrible but last years) they just look... cheap.

Maybe it’s the grey colour, who knows but again, coming from the gorgeous Saitek X65F, they are a big step down.

But importantly, and not just cosmetically, of the six hats (between the two joysticks) three of them had faulty actions.

 

Top centre hat on LH joystick has no left or right feedback and response was intermittent.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bojiw4l4ll...%2049.mov?dl=0

 

Bottom centre hat on RH joystick had a faulty left action. Need to REALLY press hard to get a response.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yq2zsu1mxu...%2027.mov?dl=0

 

The bottom centre hat on LH joystick was also very heavy in the LH direct, but not quite as serious as the right.

 

Once I have time to play with them a bit, I'll keep you informed of how things pan out.

 

Have put in a request for replacement parts.

...

 

Interesting. I'd agree the grey plastic "looks cheap", there is a black option, but not convinced I want to pay extra for black switches I'll never look at mid game.

 

My own switches are all very positive and tactile, they all work nicely - and, after the Warthog, that often feels like I've pressed a button but nothing happens, it's a bit of a revelation.

 

VPC are very on top of the customer service thing, and suspect there will be replacements in the mail shortly.

 

For the cams - I'd say it's worth the effort to try and pull the rough one out and give it a once over with some wet & dry. MY first cams were quite rough, but had it sorted in about 5 minutes with 400-800-1200 grit, and they were super smooth.

 

Currently using the no-centre cams, though I may yet give the soft centre cams a go. IT takes me about 5 minutes for a cam swap, now that I know the procedure, the first time did take about 30 mins, as I didn't want to screw anything up - and also ended up unplugging everything form the circuit board.

 

Also not sure why the video I saw wants you to undo the top cover, you can access those screws regardless, it's a bit of a waste of time form my point of view.

 

Re the dust covers - I think they were only for people that got pre-ordered originally, and was a "thanks" for being patient.

 

Z...

[graxxor]

I'd rep you, BB, but my Rep is worth exactly one point less than yours, lol...

 

Thanks for the response...

 

Looks like you got lucky with the switches (or me unlucky) because mine are all over the place in terms of "clickiness."

 

The push buttons seem fine, though.

 

I wouldn't need to remove the cam to polish its face...

 

Although it feels silky smooth to the touch, so I'm not entirely convinced the grindiness I'm feeling is the cam and not in the bearing.

In any case, since I replaced the spring with the light blue one, the problem is virtually unnoticeable now... Also, need a week or to to wear in to their optimal condition, no doubt.

 

The video showed taking the top off so that one could replace the springs which pop out from the top of the gimbal.

 

As for the dust covers, I'm not too fussed, Nikon style 300mm lens pouches can be had for $3 from Aliexpress, so no biggie.

Edited November 30, 2017 by graxxor

[Cyph3r]

Hi graxxor - I replied to your email yesterday about 20 minutes after you sent it (and hours before you made this post!)

 

Can you get back to my email please? We'll get the hats resolved - don't worry! :)

[graxxor]

Cyph3r, cheers for the quick response as always!!!

 

Right then: They're fixed...

 

So I opened them up and performed surgery on them, with the blessing of the folks at Virpil.

 

But let me point out that they immediately and unreservedly offered to take back the grips free of charge (all the way from Japan) and fix it themselves if I was not keen on the procedure. Excellent support.

 

It turned out that, as the Virpil staff explained, both lower hats could be fixed with half a turn of a screw.....

 

The switches were entirely fine and are now performing top notch with crisp, clean transitions...

 

As for the upper, completely unresponsive hat, I noticed that the plastic shaft of the hat was shiny from the mould plastic, whereas all of the others were dull matte as if the had been finished off with some fine wet and dry.

On measurement with my trusty micrometer, I noticed it was a touch thicker than the other three, working hat shafts.

 

It looks like this hat had not gone through a final turning or reduction process to the correct width... or something....

 

So I filed the shaft down and polished it and the clicks are now well defined and crisp…

 

I’ll consider my device fixed with a simple, 45 minute procedure…

Proof of fine clickiness (turn up volume). ;-)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jittf8giwjwwnd/fiexed.mov

 

1) Filed shaft down to create a slightly squarish profile with 600C

 

2) Fine tuned the thickness and smoothed with 1000C

 

3) Polished and finished with a nylon strap.

 

Here are a few images from the surgery.

 

I'm impressed with the grade of the wiring... No crappy stuff like my "Pro" flight pedals' wiring... No loose ends, all firmly glued down... Circuit board in the grip is as professional as the one in the base and it's solidly held down and very clearly labelled with removable plastic headers so no soldering needed. The wires are all clear of moving parts so there is no chance of rubbing or wear and tear damaging the wires.

 

Impressive...

 

In conclusion, I'm looking forward to their future products... They show great promise and with a little QA tweakage, I suspect they're going to be a major player in the high quality, dual stick market.

 

[TheBamse]

I'm facing the same issue but with the bottom middle 4-way hat (no. 9 in the list of buttons/switches in the manual).

I've emailed VPC about it just a few hours ago, but thank you for providing the images! That will help me alot if they give me the green-light for a DIY-session :)

[dburne]

I absolutely love my Virpil setup and would not fly without it unless had no other choice. It is great stick setup and an awesome gimbal system/

 

However I will say, they really need to work on their QC before these things leave the factory. Yes I too have found their support to be awesome, but the need for it could be reduced by just some good checks before they leave. It is great that graxxor was able to do what he needed to do, I know I myself would never been able to do that and thankfully did not receive a stick that required that kind of procedure.

 

Obviously I am a huge fan of Virpil, just hope they can get better QC going on these things prior to shipment.

[Mr_sukebe]

Anyone in the uk bought from vpc and know the typical import taxes if I buy direct?

[Pajeka]

Anyone in the uk bought from vpc and know the typical import taxes if I buy direct?

 

If I remember correctly, on receipt ( in Scotland ) of Flightstick, Desk mount and single extension I was charged approximately £25 Import tax. Sorry but can’t remember exact amount but certainly less than £30.

[cepanamea]

Hi,

 

I have the same question with import taxes/VAT for Germany. Does anyone know how much I should expect?

Or is there going to be an EU store in the foreseeable future?

[Buckeye]

I absolutely love my Virpil setup and would not fly without it unless had no other choice. It is great stick setup and an awesome gimbal system/

 

However I will say, they really need to work on their QC before these things leave the factory. Yes I too have found their support to be awesome, but the need for it could be reduced by just some good checks before they leave. It is great that graxxor was able to do what he needed to do, I know I myself would never been able to do that and thankfully did not receive a stick that required that kind of procedure.

 

Obviously I am a huge fan of Virpil, just hope they can get better QC going on these things prior to shipment.

 

 

 

Agreed, I like VPC and I want to see them succeed. Further, I love Cypher's responsiveness, it's probably what draws me to VPC the most...so I would love to get to a point where I was confident enough in the quality of a VPC HOTAS to purchase one...but I 100% can not do that right now. There's no way I could buy a stick from them anytime in the next 3+ months, over which I would need to see repeated/consistent quality, free of QC issues, shipping from their factory. Since that hasn't happened over the past 3+ months of me waiting, I just sit on the sideline waiting and hoping to see all the QC issues finally shored up so I can pull the trigger...but that still hasn't happened. Every time I open the thread it's another case of something needing to be sent back or DIY'ed.

 

I'm not interested in buying a DIY project. I'm interested in buying a stick that is 100% free of any quality issues.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[graxxor]

For what it's worth, I got stuck with a 4000 yen ($35) import on dual stick and dual mount total cost about 1600 BYR