Need a new A/C .....F-5 maybe?

[AvgWhiteGuy]

I just posted the info below on the A-10C forum but having stubbled upon a recently closed thread in this forum I'd appreciate you F5 fans reading and commenting.

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From: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=185470

 

I've been flying the A-10C for a while now and I'm interested in a new plane to get that jet jockey 'turn & burn' feeling. I still love the A-10C and will continue flying it; I think flying something new will give me a new perspective on the whole battle space.

I was hoping some of you that may have expanded your inventory might make suggestions as to which A/C to try out now. I really only fly solo mission for now; my skill set isn't up to squadron level yet and I'm not sure I'm mentally ready for the top of the line 4th Gen fighters and dogfights (age & recent eye surgery).

 

Also want something that has decent documentation and English cockpit layout. Most importantly, I'm looking for something that will utilize some/most/all of my current hardware as below:

 

USB Hardware:

TrackIR5

TM HOTAS Stick & Throttle (mapping keys)

TM Cougar MFCD

Saitek Cessena Footpedals

Razer Orbweaver keypad (more mapping)

 

DCS Software:

DCS World

DCS World 2 (NTTR)

 

Budget: under $85 million, delivered with a bunch of bombs!!!

 

Appreciate your suggestions and opinions, don't hesitate to comment on your experiences, or any other tidbits of information.

 

Thanks in advance

[Rudel_chw]

I've both the F5 and the Viggen, and I have to admit that to me the Viggen is a more entertaining aircraft ... in spite that I have a soft spot for the F5 since its a plane that was used many years on my country's Air Force.

 

I'd say that if multiplayer and air combat is important to you, then get the F5 ... on the other hand, if flying low and fast and learning to operate complicated avionics systems (the F5 is really simple compared with your current A10) then get the Viggen and dont let its swedish cockpit scare you ... there is en english mod but i actually find easier the swedish cockpit as it relates better with the flight manual.

[Kev2go]

F5 is a really fun fighter to zip around in. can compete against the Mig21, but like the Mig dont expect to go around fighting Modern 4th generation fighters without very significant disadvantages.

 

So if you want something with Turn and burn feel but more modern id suggest Razbam's Mirage 2000 ( aka M2000C) module. IT will far better prepare you for future more sophisticated multirole 4th generation fighters like F/A18 than old 3rd gen ( or even older) aircraft types. since it seems you have enjoyed the modern functions of A10C then youl probably gravitate or like more type modern era fighters anyways even for solo play.

 

The M2000c Its fairly quick and easy to startup. You can be up and running from cold start to taxiing to take off at around just 1 min ( ofc not at your first attempt). and while its more complex than F5 it was still lot easier to learn than the A10C or even the Mig21, and it handles superbly, and is pilot friendly with the layout, ease of use, and handling. so you can focus directly on a given task at hand be without many distractions or being overworked by cockpit switchology.

 

M2000C is mostly a fighter, but most certainly does have solid secondary strike capability. Can load up Mk82/ Mk82 snakeyes, Beluga Cluster munitions or Rockets, and HUD provides CCIP and CCRP bombing modes. while it depends on bomb type In total can hold up to 9 bombs. whilst it still offers these dumb bombs greater accuracy (with HUD CCIP/CCRP delivery modes) so greater ease of use than F5's manual sight mills depression, which not to mention even with practice wont be as accurate. ( Lesser variety, Since the F5 also has M117 750 lbs as well as MK83 and Mk84, but M2000 has easier + more accurate delivery which matters more IMO)

 

ITs not Super modern glassy cockpit like a F18 or something, but its still a modernish 4th generation fighter with its FLy by wire controls. it has INS navigation, a decent radar with look down shoot down capability, Modern RWR, internal ECM jammer, as well as IFF capabilities to differentiate friend from foe targets shown on your radar display. IT has BVR capabilities with the Semi active radar guided SUper 530D which is more or less comparable technology to the Aim7M

 

Alternatively M2000c can act asa PGM bomb truck for A10C drivers or JTAC's. thus with an external laser source being provided it can destroy targets with GBu's

Edited April 2, 2017 by Kev2go

[Maulkin]

Personally I must recommend the M-2000C. There is an English mod available that is very well done. It has a sophisticated RWR and radar system and is also a capable ground attack platform. The navigation system is inertial-based and has a lot of depth.

 

Also the training missions and campain that come with the module are very well done.

 

I must also point out that the module is still in development so some systems are not yet complete but the potential is huge.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Maulkin

[sideshow]

I own the A-10, F-5, Viggen and Mig-21. For the money nothing comes close to the 21 (in my opinion). It feels, "alive" in that it really draws you into the module, landing is always a challenge, plus it's quite capable in a2a and a2g. My second choice would be the Viggen you can outrun your enemies if need be, carry more air to air than an f-5, and pre plan low level strikes. I always feel out gunned in the F-5. You only get 2 sidewinders, and it's hard to put an iron bomb on target. Not to mention it's quite under powered compared to the other two jets. Just my two cents.

[AvgWhiteGuy]

Guys, I really appreciate your input here and believe I have narrowed my acquisition down to 2 planes; the F-5 or the M-2000C. I do need the ability to strike ground targets, whether or not it is a primary role is less significant. Must pound the ground!!!! Since a very recent eye surgery has left me with less than optimal eyes for A2A, I would be a fat double cheeseburger for any hungry, half competent, tactical A2A fighter:chair:

 

But I'm not hearing much on one of my primary interests/concerns; can you comment on this statement below.

 

Most importantly, I'm looking for something that will utilize some/most/all of my current hardware as below:

 

USB Hardware:

TrackIR5

TM HOTAS Stick & Throttle (mapping keys)

TM Cougar MFCD

Saitek Cessena Footpedals

Razer Orbweaver keypad (more mapping)

 

DCS Software:

DCS World

DCS World 2 (NTTR)

 

A friend gave me DCS A-10C as a sort of gag gift a couple years ago, I just drank the Kool-aid and I'm happy to report my $3,000 addiction :helpsmilie:

[Apache600]

Well I'm going to throw my hat in the ring for the MiG-21. I enjoy the F-5, and would say that it may be on par with the M2000 for ground pound operations, but I think the MiG-21 might be more fun for that. Granted, I don't own the M2000, but looking at the load outs, it seems rather similar to the F-5. Air-Air wise, the M2000 is going to be very capable at short and long range, where the F-5 is more of a close in knife fighter.

 

The MiG-21 i would say is a close and medium range Air-Air. It has the IR missiles like the F-5, but also some crude early generation radar guided missiles which are really fun to use. As for the ground pound operations, they all have dumb bombs and rockets. (I like the MiG-21 S-24 rockers ... massive things those are) The F-5 and M2000 both get some laser guided bombs, which is really cool, but you need the ground support to utilize them. The MiG-21 doesn't get that but doesn't need it when you go to the other side of the spectrum and use the ... tactical nuke :P The gunpods on the MiG-21 are a joy to use, and I'm so glad that the latest update brought them back. But my all time favorite weapon is the Grom missile for the MiG-21. That thing is a hoot.

 

Navigation for the F-5 is very basic. ADF, TACAN, and Eye-balls. The MiG-21 has the Russian version of the VOR's and ILS, which is a lot fun. I've been shooting approaches with it down to minimums lately. It's a challenge to say the least.

 

Another reason why I'm going for the MiG-21 is because it is so far from the norm from your A-10C, that I think it would really show you some of the vast array of game play style that DCS offers.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion. The others that people have voiced here are all well and good too. In all, The F-5 is fun to fly, the MiG-21 is fun to fly, and the M2000 is on my list to buy, and will most likely also be fun to fly. I really don't think you can go wrong ... and I certainly wouldn't put it past you to get all 3 ... plus some of the other modules. Heck, you're already $3,000 in, what's just a little more? :)

 

- Apache600

[Dehuman]

Get the M-2000C. It has a good radar and HUD which will see other aircraft for you.

 

It will also have no problem making full use of your hardware.

[BlackLion213]

Guys, I really appreciate your input here and believe I have narrowed my acquisition down to 2 planes; the F-5 or the M-2000C. I do need the ability to strike ground targets, whether or not it is a primary role is less significant. Must pound the ground!!!!

 

Well, my current favorite 2 modules are the Viggen and F-5E (at least in terms of flight hours) with the Mirage and MiG-21 tying for third.

 

I think it also depends on where you want to fly them and how complicated you want things to be.

 

The F-5E is an excellent match for the NTTR and there are some nice campaigns from Maple Flag set there. In addition to learning A-A combat skills, it is also a chance to perfect your nav skills using TACAN and point to point navigation (a new skill for me). The F-5E is very easy to operate with benign, but lively handling. A smooth landing is not hard to achieve, but is also not a foregone conclusion. Its origins as a trainer a clear from its ease of operations, but the module is a very complete simulation that challenges your skills during A-A (since it is easy to fly, but hard to master in ACM - especially against 4th gen fighters that use it for DACT).

 

The A-G part is 60's era weapons delivery with a simple reflector gunsight using either iron bombs or rockets. You could view the F-5E as a mini (and slower) F-105D if you have an interest in the era.

 

The Viggen is very different, but also very worthy of you interest. It is a fast A-G striker with a broad array of weapons (Mavericks, iron bombs, manually guided missiles, sophisticated anti-ship missiles, and rockets). It is also VERY FAST, perhaps the fastest aircraft in DCS on the deck (I've seen ~mach 1.3 at sea level) and feels very powerful in burner. Also, the A-G radar is interesting to use and takes lots of practice. The Viggen also has rather complex systems, though the user interface is 1970s vintage and very different from the A-10C. Also, the instruments and user interface is fairly different from US aircraft, but also pretty familiar for those used to Western Aircraft. It is also fairly challenging to fly due to engine management and high induced drag with much AOA - it probably is the most likely aircraft to kill the pilot (virtually) in DCS - I regard this as a selling point, but not all feel the same way.

 

However, it doesn't currently offer the complete experience of the F-5E (or A-10C) in NTTR (yet at least, more features are coming). But the artwork is a new high in DCS and it will take a lot of time to master while offering a very different A-G experience than the A-10C.

 

Here is how I would decide: If you really like flying in NTTR with realistic missions and want a "sports car" of a jet (the Mazda Miata of fighters), focusing on the nuance of A-A while dropping ordnance the "old fashion" way - then go for the F-5E. It's an excellent module.

 

However, if you want new A-G weapons, new A-G sensors, and a fast and powerful striker that operates very differently than the A-10C (it does have an english cockpit option that was just released) - then get the AJS-37 Viggen.

 

Either way, you will probably be happy, but if A-G is pretty important the Viggen seems like the better option. If realistic NTTR operations is the priority, choose the F-5E.

 

My 2 cents.

 

-Nick

 

PS - I also 2nd Apache600's point that the MiG-21 is a very well-rounded module and is now receiving more updates. It offers a similar experience to the F-5E handling wise, but is faster and a bit more interesting (IMHO). It also carries more weapons (like the gun-pods), but has been all over the map with recent updates. It still needs some tune-ups, but I still love flying it.

Edited April 3, 2017 by BlackLion213

[OnlyforDCS]

Since you mentioned that you pretty much only fly solo missions, I would have to suggest you get the Mirage2000C.

 

It has probably the best introductory campaign out of all the modules I've tried. It basically trains you to use the aircraft as you fly the campaign. (You still need to do the training missions, but still) The voiceovers and missions are also excellent.

 

It is also an excellent aircraft to transition to multiplayer play, as it is forgiving to fly (as long as you don't step out of the envelope, at that point it will bite you in the A** hard) it has a decent radar and AA missiles and a pretty good RWR.

 

It's not an Eagle, but it is my go to Jet on Blue Flag. It also still has some bugs left in it, but it is mostly feature complete, and recently the FM got updated since it was overperforming in some flight regimes.

 

Otherwise go for the Viggen. I don't own it, but I wish I did,. :)

I'll be getting it once it draws closer to release.

[Reflected]

I would say the F5 is a lot closer to the Sabre than to the A-10. It's a fast jet with afterburning engines, a very simple cockpit, 2 heat seeking missiles and a wide variety of bombs.

 

If you like to fiddle with avionics, look elsewhere. The radar is only really useful in close dogfight modes to calculate bullet drop and launch distance.

 

This being said I absolutely love it, for the above mentioned reasons :)

[dannyq8]

Guys, I really appreciate your input here and believe I have narrowed my acquisition down to 2 planes; the F-5 or the M-2000C. I do need the ability to strike ground targets, whether or not it is a primary role is less significant. Must pound the ground!!!! Since a very recent eye surgery has left me with less than optimal eyes for A2A, I would be a fat double cheeseburger for any hungry, half competent, tactical A2A fighter:chair:

 

But I'm not hearing much on one of my primary interests/concerns; can you comment on this statement below.

 

Most importantly, I'm looking for something that will utilize some/most/all of my current hardware as below:

 

USB Hardware:

TrackIR5 Yes, all aircraft

TM HOTAS Stick & Throttle (mapping keys) Yes, all aircraft

TM Cougar MFCD Yes, any aircraft with MFCD, but more buttons are always useful

Saitek Cessena Footpedals Yes, all aircraft

Razer Orbweaver keypad (more mapping) Yes, probably, I don't have this, but more buttons are always useful

 

DCS Software:

DCS World Yes

DCS World 2 (NTTR) Yes

 

A friend gave me DCS A-10C as a sort of gag gift a couple years ago, I just drank the Kool-aid and I'm happy to report my $3,000 addiction :helpsmilie:

 

I'd go for the Mirage

[Kev2go]

Well I'm going to throw my hat in the ring for the MiG-21. I enjoy the F-5, and would say that it may be on par with the M2000 for ground pound operations, but I think the MiG-21 might be more fun for that. Granted, I don't own the M2000, but looking at the load outs, it seems rather similar to the F-5. \

 

- Apache600

 

thats where your not quite correct. Bombload alone isnt everything. yes they have comparable bomb loads, but m2000 is still easily a better option for ground strike over the F5 due to having a HUD containing CCIP and CCRP bombing modes. whereas in the F5 a pilot has to manually Depress the gun sight based on a given Dive.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Kev2go