**DCS F-14: ACLS Landing!**

[ФрогФут]

Actually, that would make the problem even worse. Fortunately we have a number of good sources contradicting that conversion (including other NAVAIR manuals for the F14) :P

Which is..?

The point is: on landing the meatball is 100% visible, as described in landing technique. What is shown in the video - carrier is not visible at all.

[swither]

Which is..?

The point is: on landing the meatball is 100% visible, as described in landing technique. What is shown in the video - carrier is not visible at all.

 

I'm sorry but I don't see what your point is, it's really easy to see the meatball while landing with the F14, just adjust the head position a bit from what you see in this video! Feel free to play around with it and test it out when we've released the airplane :)

[ФрогФут]

I'm sorry but I don't see what your point is, it's really easy to see the meatball while landing with the F14, just adjust the head position a bit from what you see in this video! Feel free to play around with it and test it out when we've released the airplane :)

Usually the seat is adjusted for HUD view and i don't see any signs of readjustment landing in the manual. I haven't meet one carrier 4th gen jet with such a need to raise the seat to see anything.

I'll play with it much earlier.;)

Edited May 14, 2017 by ФрогФут

[swither]

Usually the seat is adjusted for HUD view and i don't see any signs on readjustment landing in the manual. I haven't meet one carrier 4th gen jet with such a need to raise the seat to see anything.

I'll play with it much earlier.;)

 

Again, I understand your concern, but we've verified that AoA and glideslope are correctly implemented.

 

• You have pointed out that the alpha seems to high, yet the value you suggested is much higher than the actual value (hence would be worse)
  
• Yes landing speed is too high, doesn't affect the issue you're stating
  
• AoA in video is 15 units and glideslope is 3.5 as prescribed in manual, so don't worry.
  
• If you're worried, i can assure you that there's no problem with seeing the carrier properly while landing :joystick:
  
• TrackIR was used to record video, hence head position is adjusted based on how you sit and how you calibrate it
  
• Yes sure, you can play around with it as soon as we send you a build, but that is really far of the point of this post! :P
  

And anyway, this is just a youtube video we put together to share our progress with the community, not really a FM validation test . So please treat it as what it is!

 

I'm happy to discuss any more issues like this in private, off the forums, (add me on skype, Alex can provide you with my skype id) :)

Edited May 14, 2017 by swither

[Gunny Highway]

It's not a question of passion, but rather professionalism.

[ФрогФут]

It's not a question of passion, but rather professionalism.

My concerns are only in the best product possible. If i can point at the issue at this stage it is better, than during the certification.;)

[OnlyforDCS]

Interesting conversation. Like the video, can't wait for the F14 really. Hopefully Normandy and 2.1 will tide me over somewhat. I hope we see early access for the F14 sooner rather than later.

[phant]

 

"Wait: are you saying that I had would may use ACLS?"

 

 

Bye

Phant :D

[Raven68]

Just an insightful conversation to me that offers a learning experience for those that are not in the know. Thank you Swither and Frogfut.

[BlackLion213]

In fairness to both sides of the debate, a video of an ACLS approach in dense fog is probably not the best video for judging carrier and ball visibility.

 

-Nick

[Gandalf_56]

Thank you Heatblur!!! The video is awesome!!

 

Every step forward in F14 development is appreciated. Please bring this Cat for the end of 2017 . I have already started to write to Santa for my special gift :)

Edited May 14, 2017 by Gandalf_56

[MoGas]

Approach speed of 146 kts (as seen in the upper right corner) is for GW of 59K lbs. Maximum landing GW - 54K lbs.

Pitch angle is around 8 degrees. If AoA is 15 units and it is linear in the -10..+40 degrees, it means, that real AoA is 15 degrees (raises questions itself, as this is more, than any plane i know). It results in - 7 degree glideslope. It is a lot.

Carrier approach is always visual. You always control the meatball. Even under AP you would control it's operation not to end the flight in the back of the carrier.

 

PS Frogfoot. Beta testing FM by videos since 2017.:D

 

The approach reference bar IS 15 angle of attack units, on a carrier landing! The optimal approach indexer circle (amber) is between 14.5 and 15.5, on optimum speed!

[ФрогФут]

The approach reference bar IS 15 angle of attack units, on a carrier landing! The optimal approach indexer circle (amber) is between 14.5 and 15.5, on optimum speed!

How does this say anything against what i've said?:)

[MoGas]

How does this say anything against what i've said?:)

 

Well, you complain about visibility (15 units) the FLOLS would be visible in the Vid if it would work proberly. I dont see anything rong in the Vid...

[Cowboy10uk]

Just to think, the last time I had the opportunity to land an F14 on a carrier, it looked like this.

 

 

Now we have this.

 

 

Times sure have changed, I cannot wait. :D

 

Cowboy10uk

Edited May 14, 2017 by Cowboy10uk

[Curly]

-10 +40 degrees = 0..30 units.

As i said, if it's linear, 15 units = 15 degrees. Easy math. But the conversion being linear is still questionable.

 

Questions about unit-degrees conversion and pilot view are still actual.:)

 

The conversion for AOA units to angles in the Tomcat is

AoA units = 1.0989 *(AoA true + 3.01)

 

Which gives us a landing AoA of 10.64.

Not out of the realm of possibilities given that the Hornet approach alpha is about 8 degrees.

 

A quick shorthand to convert units of alpha to degrees for the F-14 below Mach .4 is to subtract 5 from units to get the angle in degrees. This only works for the f-14, all other aircraft use different equations to convert AoA units to degrees.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a243109.pdf

 

So for a 3.5 degree glideslope at 10 alpha the TvV should be on 3.5 line of the hud, meaning the water line should be 6.5 degrees up.

[Curly]

Just for fun some aircraft recovery bulletins with F-14 info.

[ФрогФут]

AoA units = 1.0989 *(AoA true + 3.01)

Now that is something.:thumbup:

[OnlyforDCS]

Why do these (usually NATO) planes all use different AoA units, instead of simply using degrees? I fail to see the logic behind this, can someone in the knowhow please attempt to clarify?

[AOG]

It's not a NATO thing, its specific to the individual manufacturers. It is usually done to somwhat normalize the indications across the flight regime. 15 units of AOA will mean approximately the same thing across all flight regimes and weights. If you just use raw AOA you have to manually correct for the weight and speed of the aircraft.

 

AOG

[OnlyforDCS]

Hang on, what does angle of attack have to do with the weight and speed of the aircraft?

 

Definition: "AOA (Angle of Attack) is the angle between a reference line on a body (often the chord line of an airfoil) and the vector representing the relative motion between the body and the fluid through which it is moving"

[AOG]

Hang on, what does angle of attack have to do with the weight and speed of the aircraft?

 

Definition: "AOA (Angle of Attack) is the angle between a reference line on a body (often the chord line of an airfoil) and the vector representing the relative motion between the body and the fluid through which it is moving"

 

It's all about what we use AOA for. AOA is used (in a pre flight path vector world) as a proxy to how close you are to stalling. By normalizeing the values the pilot only has to remember a couple of critical numbers to know where he is in relation to stalling the aircraft. Each manufacturer has a different way of doing that. The one I work for normalize the AOA such that stall is equivalent to 1. Anywhere in the flight regime if you stall you will see a 1 on the AOA indicator regardless of how heavy or fast or dirty you are.

 

AOG

[OnlyforDCS]

Aha I think I see. Basically each aircraft has a critical AoA at which it stalls. This number can change based on a number of factors, so it is normalized? Am I on the right track? (Sorry for offtopic)

[AOG]

Aha I think I see. Basically each aircraft has a critical AoA at which it stalls. This number can change based on a number of factors, so it is normalized? Am I on the right track? (Sorry for offtopic)

 

Exactly

 

AOG

[rge75]

Just to think, the last time I had the opportunity to land an F14 on a carrier, it looked like this.

Cowboy10uk

 

 

So you left out Janes USNF? ;-) Well, times, graphics and physics really changed a lot and I'm really looking forward to the release of this module.