controls very sensitive, curves? TMWH MFG?

[WildBillKelsoe]

I feel that minimum pull on stick or rudder does not achieve smooth control surface deflection but rather abrupt. Almost like huey. Should I use curves? if so, what are your recommended curve settings?

thanks

[Magic Zach]

You can move the saturation Y down to 60 or 70. Curvature, put a lot of it. For me, I use between 25-30 throughout all my aircraft I use. These are my settings I use for the Spitfire, anyways. Makes it at least flyable. Before, aiming was a royal pain.

[RedShoes]

Yes, some curves are very much recommended... and as above, some people also prefer some saturation.

 

I can also very much recommend a stick extension, makes it much easier with reasonable curves. I use 18% curvature with ~20 cm stick extension.

 

For practicing take offs, landings, dogfights, aiming,.... enable your control indicators (r-ctrl + enter) and if you can save you game play on a video (nvidia shadowplay or what ever game recording tool) and watch it afterward on areas you though you were having trouble or too sensitive controls. Check the control indicators how much movement you actually had on your virtual stick :joystick:

[NeilWillis]

The Spitfire is very sensitive in pitch. Curves will reduce that, but add a more extreme middle range.

 

The short stick of the standard Warthog set up is what's really the problem, and if you have the resources and are serious about DCS World, I'd recommend you improve handling via that route.

 

The majority will of course settle for curve tuning, but it masks the issue rather than solving it.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

The Spitfire is very sensitive in pitch. Curves will reduce that, but add a more extreme middle range.

 

The short stick of the standard Warthog set up is what's really the problem, and if you have the resources and are serious about DCS World, I'd recommend you improve handling via that route.

 

The majority will of course settle for curve tuning, but it masks the issue rather than solving it.

 

And... DCS is the only sim I presently use that allows for customized settings of all controls for each aircraft, instead of throwing generic configurations to all models... It's a very handy and effective feature.

 

I have different curves for each of the control axis and each different ww2 module.

[=Pedro=]

25 % curves will make fly this bird much easier! ;)

[stratman59]

Don't mean to hijack the post but I'm now into 15 plus hours and still unable to get a third the way down the runway in the Spit. I'm on full sim mode and using an X52 pro and Thustmaster TF Pedals. Basically, as soon as try any correction to a straight line deviation I spin off violently in whichever direction I correct too. I've read all the posts on here and I understand it's meant to be difficult but when I watch Youtube videos they seem to do far harsher corrections than I'm doing and yet don't suffer the same fate? I've also tried every conceivable curve and saturations settings on the rudder but to no avail. I'm in no way new to flight sims so I'm a bit baffled. I think I need to drastically reduce the sensitivity in my rudder but can't seem to find a setting that does that.

[Art-J]

I presume you double checked if you don't have auto-rudder and/or takeoff assistance turned on by mistake?

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Don't mean to hijack the post but I'm now into 15 plus hours and still unable to get a third the way down the runway in the Spit. I'm on full sim mode and using an X52 pro and Thustmaster TF Pedals. Basically, as soon as try any correction to a straight line deviation I spin off violently in whichever direction I correct too. I've read all the posts on here and I understand it's meant to be difficult but when I watch Youtube videos they seem to do far harsher corrections than I'm doing and yet don't suffer the same fate? I've also tried every conceivable curve and saturations settings on the rudder but to no avail. I'm in no way new to flight sims so I'm a bit baffled. I think I need to drastically reduce the sensitivity in my rudder but can't seem to find a setting that does that.

 

Just came to my mind if you have mistakenly set the brakes axis and made it inverted, so that when you load the aircraft brake is applied when you think your releasing it ?

 

I don't use an axis for the brake in the Spitfire, but rather my joystick button 1 ( usually the one I pick for guns ), because it's the closer I can get to the real thing in my TS 16000.

 

Also are you setting the elevator trim to neutral ( or just one mark above it ... ) ?

 

The rudder trim should also be set clockwise, at least a quarter turn.

 

Smoothly but promptly add power.

[stratman59]

Yes Art, definitely check those settings, I never like to have any kind of AI assistance in any sim.

I just tried a few more attempts, what happens is if I veer a little to the right as soon as I do as much as a smidge of correction to the left the right wing drops and I spin off to the left. Same if I have to correct the other way, it feels like my pedals are hipper sensitive to any touch?

jcomm, nope, I checked. Setting elevator trim to neutral or one notch nose down and rudder trim to the right as in most posts.

[DD_Fenrir]

@stratman59,

 

Any chance you could post a trk file or upload a youtube video of what's happening; this would help in localising where the issues lie. Other than that I'd happily get together with you in multiplayer to go over what's happening. PM me if you're interested.

 

@WildBillKelsoe,

 

As suggested the Spitfire has powerful elevator authority coupled with neutral static stability, a characteristic exacerbated by the short throw of our PC joysticks.

 

As you have a Warthog, extensions are available and help greatly. Y-saturation can also come down to almost 60% without affecting your elevator authority at low speeds. A curve is recommended but this is down to taste. Most seem to be somewhere on the 25-35% but play with it till you are happy.

[stratman59]

No don't have a Warthog, wish I did. I have a Saitek X52 Pro setup with a Thrustmaster TF Rudder pedal setup. Of course, it could be lack of skill, I just tried the Spitfire in IL-2 BOK and it's a pretty similar story. I'd have thought that after 16 hours practice now I'd have at least made some progress? I'll try and make a video although I've no experience at doing anything like that.

[stratman59]

Trackfile

 

Attached track file, whatever that is?

Take off.trk

[philstyle]

When on the ground, stab the rudder in the spit.

Use full 100% rudder inputs in a stabbing motion.

 

i.e. throw in full rudder for a half second then release it completely, then throw in full rudder again.

 

Don't try to be gentle and precise, just kick the crap out of the rudder and release just as fast.

 

stabby stabby, kicky kicky.

[stratman59]

Bloody hell Phil, that is the polar opposite of what I've been doing and blow me if I didn't get up the first time, very, very messy but in the air all the same, even managed to land with just one blade broken on the prop. stabby stabby kicky kick it is then, now to adjust the curves to that technique and another 16 hours of practice, if you're ever in Norfolk I'll buy you a pint, cheers.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Bloody hell Phil, that is the polar opposite of what I've been doing and blow me if I didn't get up the first time, very, very messy but in the air all the same, even managed to land with just one blade broken on the prop. stabby stabby kicky kick it is then, now to adjust the curves to that technique and another 16 hours of practice, if you're ever in Norfolk I'll buy you a pint, cheers.

 

It's called "tricking the fdm cycle" :-)

 

I wouldn't do that irl, not even in my lazy gliders....

[Ron Attwood]

Don't mean to hijack the post but I'm now into 15 plus hours and still unable to get a third the way down the runway in the Spit. I'm on full sim mode and using an X52 pro and Thustmaster TF Pedals. Basically, as soon as try any correction to a straight line deviation I spin off violently in whichever direction I correct too. I've read all the posts on here and I understand it's meant to be difficult but when I watch Youtube videos they seem to do far harsher corrections than I'm doing and yet don't suffer the same fate? I've also tried every conceivable curve and saturations settings on the rudder but to no avail. I'm in no way new to flight sims so I'm a bit baffled. I think I need to drastically reduce the sensitivity in my rudder but can't seem to find a setting that does that.

 

Hi, This is my first post here but I've been haunting the place since I bought the Spitfire.

I could have written the above quote myself except it feels like more than 15 hours! I've developed an ongoing love/hate relationship with the Spitfire in that countless times I've said "That's it! No more" only to come back an hour later for some more punishment. I'm at the stage now where I can take off a little less like Orville. (the cartoon albatross)

Landing is different kettle of fish. :( Beautiful approach, good speed, nicely trimmed even(mostly) a smooth touch down. It normally goes tits up shortly after with an uncontrollable lurch to the right ending in ignominy.

In the air the Spitfire is all I could wish for...

To sum up, I can't believe that ED think the handling is realistic. The Mustang(the payware one) is no problem, yet it's reputation says it was a bear to take off in i.e. an overabundance of torque.

Thank you for reading. At least I know I'm not alone. :thumbup:

[stratman59]

Ron, I feel your pain. In truth it's probably way more than 15 hours for me too, I took out a lot of hours to allow for the time I spent messing about with curves in the controller settings. I can now at least get in the air and just like you, very much like a drunken albatross, usually sideways and touching the odd wingtip down. As for landing, I can get it down in a fashion, it's ugly and as yet not in one piece but it's great fun trying.

I guess none of us can know if the model is a realistic representation but having read Cheif Instructors 'Sticky' he certainly seems to be of the opinion that it's pretty close and he does seem well qualified to endorse his opinion.

Like you I've been on the threshold of giving up, the reason I keep going back and persevering is this:- as a 'baby boomer' I grew up making Airfix models of all my favorite WWII aircraft knowing that apart from the odd trip to Duxford that's as close I was ever going to get.

Little did I know as a spotty youth, one day VR would be invented and I could sit in a Spitfire, a Mustang, a BF 109 or a 190 and as near as damn it, actually fly one. I don't know if you have VR Ron but honestly, even with the considerable expense and the faffing around required, it is simply a mind-blowing experience, one that will keep me coming back and crashing hundreds of planes as I try to get in the air. Once the devs sort out the optimization issues, Ai and damage issues with Normandy it's going to be incredible. You're not alone Ron and if you get a chance to experience DCS in VR, grab it.

[Magic Zach]

To help with torque, hold down the brakes (no rudder input) and rev up to 2,500RPMs, with your stick back. Then release and you only have to move your throttle a little bit forwards.

Also give the rudder trim a 1/2 rotation clockwise when you spawn into a Spitfire, and make sure you trim the nose down so the needle is just above the middle-mark.

[mkiii]

Once you are rolling at a reasonable rate (almost immediately), make sure you relax the back pressure on the stick to allow the tail to rise, (I tend to give a little fwd pressure at first), at the same time, keeping a careful eye on the left/right slippage (compensate and cancel as described with firm rudder inputs). If you think the Spit is tricky, have you tried the FW-190?

 

Personally, I'm not convinced that the springing and drag of the gear is right. Certainly, most of the config that sets these things up seems to be cut n pasted from other aircraft.

 

The amount the tailwheel can bounce was like having a strut made out of power-balls. I haven't checked it lately so I'm not sure it is still like that.

[Vino]

I never take off with my tail up. If I do, I’ll end up dead. Three point take off is much easier.

[Magic Zach]

The amount the tailwheel can bounce was like having a strut made out of power-balls. I haven't checked it lately so I'm not sure it is still like that.

I was flying with a friend yesterday, both of us in Spitfires. I made a gentle landing, and he landed behind me. He examined "OH SH**!!" and I looked back to see him bouncing. But the distraction made me lose focus, and after slipping uncontrollably to the left, it ended in a propstrike. Can confirm the bounce in the tailwheel is still there.

BOING!!

BOING!

Boing!

boing...

[Ron Attwood]

To be clear, taking off is not the problem. If it's a bit scruffy sometimes I know it was me! Believe me, I've read all the tips 'n' tricks on this forum and applied them because I will always think of myself as being the problem. On the 'curves' front I'm now back to default settings and they don't seem to be all that different. I'm starting to wonder if they are just a placebo.

So far I've bought the Spitfire and the P-51D. Being a bit of a 'completist' (gotta have the whole collection) I'm loathe to buy anything else until the Spitfire gets nailed. Describing the FW-190 as trickier than the Spitfire has done nothing to encourage me to spend more. :(

For the record I'm using a Warthog and Crosswind pedals both calibrated till they bled! :joystick:

Anyway, enough of my moaning.

Cheers, Ron

[Magic Zach]

While I don't have the 190, 80% of the people who have warbirds will say the Spitfire is the hardest to learn to ground handle. But once you master it, everything else is a breeze. But...thats the case for most people.

Once I mastered the Spitfire, I bought the 109. First 109 takeoff was flawless. The only thing I needed to be told was to apply some right brake, and she was airborne. I believe the 109's handling on the ground is similar to the 190, but as I said, I don't have it.

P-47D-30 is the same as the Mustang, I believe. Not sure in the P-40F though. And the far-out I-16 Type 24 has a similar braking system to the Spitfire, just the lever is placed in a different spot on the stick.

I don't see any upcoming flyable WWII aircraft past that, for now. Now that VEAO is basically gone, I need to prod Leatherneck, Heatblur or RAZBAM for some WWII!

[Scrape]

The Spit was a monster initially, but I've tamed the takeoff experience. My proceedure is as follows:

 

Fuel pump off

Carb Air Fliter lever forward

Elevator Trim one notch up on the gauge.

Rpm lever forward

 

Most important setting during take-off is the rudder trim as you may have noticed. Spin the knob full right then back it left until the T in the word Port is vertical. Then turn it a bit more left till that T is just past the vertical position. Here will require a slight adjustment due to your pedals and configuration, but this is about where you want it.

 

 

*Boost increased to 8lbs*

Always use this amount. Less than 8lbs on boost with max rpm will yank the airplane hard to the left from adverse yaw vs airspeed. No one likes this. The Spitfire like 8lbs, let her have this one and listen to the girl give her 8lbs.

 

Release brakes

 

Flight stick should be slight aft pitch and slight right roll input. How much depends on your curve settings. I don't use curves or saturation settings so for me its just slight pressure. You'll need a little right roll to assist with countering the adverse yaw from the engine. The aft pressure on the stick is to keep the tail wheel on the ground to assist directional stability before sufficient airspeed is attained to counter adverse yaw with the flight control surfaces.

 

Rudder pedals should be full right. As the Spit increases speed gradually return the pedals to neutral while keeping the stick frozen. A little more work is required for crosswind take-offs. The rudder pedal should be the only surface in flux while on the take off roll, and if trimmed properly the only one needed.

 

If done correctly neutral rudder should be achieved at the same time the wheels lift off the ground. All three wheels should loft into the air easily. Forward pressure may be required on the stick if elevator trim is set too high. Boost increased to 10lbs. Settle into a ten degree climb or less and allow the aircraft to enter a right hand turn. Pull rpm back to 2800 and adjust rudder trim as required. Open the carb vent (position aft) and engage fuel pump.

 

You're up, now go shoot down some Jerries and don't blow the bloody engine!