Jump to content

SU-33 refueling FBW augmentation/dampening


Baz000
 Share

Recommended Posts

Can somebody explain how the augmentation / dampening works on the SU-33 when refueling? I seem to be constantly fighting my own airplane when doing air to air refueling due to the flight controls changing when I extend the refueling probe.

 

Seems like the plane wants to auto level and it fights my inputs when I want to plug in by reversing my input to bring the plane level again when correcting attitude to plug into the tanker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pretty much it. its an autolevel and limits bank angle. changes usual stick system to correction adjustment stick. tanker you want flying straight and level and 33 pilot should only have to make small corrections to stay connected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you pressed "H” to hold the altitude before contact? It works like this.And with the auto thrust you can may easily to get closer and maintain same speed with the tanker. But one annoy thing is that the tanker somehow can't maintain a level flight, the refueling hose goes up and down between 1 or 2 meters, thus it becomes difficult to plug in your refueling probe. How to let the tanker had a absolute level flight, any guys know it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

its a bug in my opinion becouse of this

 

DCS: FC3 SU 33 Key Features:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/fr/products/planes/su-33_fc/

 

 

* Includes a special FCS mode used when aerial refueling. When in this mode and the control

stick is released, the aircraft will automatically maintain level flight.

This FCS mode allows fine-control and thus making it easier to make contact with the tanker

within a pitch range of plus or minus 5 degrees and of a roll angle of plus or minus 10

degrees.

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/fr/products/planes/su-33_fc/

 

btw i have not tryed to start altitude hold before extending the fuel boom, but it seems stupid just becouse extending it starts immediatenly the RF autopilot.

 

I have already asked this but nobody replyed. In the manual there is nothing more than just a general sentence about this topic so what's is going on?

 

:huh:

 

So is the release note wrong or iss this a bug? it seems dumpto me to keep pushing the plane nose down for RF, i just prefer to disable it.

200m butterflier inside :harhar:

 

MERLO forever

Link to comment
Share on other sites

its a bug in my opinion becouse of this

 

 

 

btw i have not tryed to start altitude hold before extending the fuel boom, but it seems stupid just becouse extending it starts immediatenly the RF autopilot.

 

...

Yes and no. When you engage any AP altitude function, there will be some fluctuation as the aircraft's trim is brought into alignment with the aircraft's airspeed, since the AP uses the trim system to control the aircraft. If you are perfectly trimmed prior to engaging the AP, then there will be no or little fluctuation. That's the purpose behind the suggested use of the "H" key prior to extending the probe.

 

I deleted a previous response because, when I tried the system for the first time this morning, I had no difficulty whatever with it. I could make small changes in altitude that were held when I released the stick, could easily hold a sustained bank, and so on. But this was also my first time using it since the PFM and want to double check some things further before commenting further.


Edited by Ironhand

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In turns i am just turning rf off.

 

But no matte how you trim the plane, opening the fuel boom leads always a pith up.

I noticed that the pitch up, right after the extension, is intense. It diminuish after a few seconds but you must keep pushing the nose down. There are few videos about this behaviour on the tube.

I canno try the H pre activation becouse i am not at home right now :P

200m butterflier inside :harhar:

 

MERLO forever

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does any of you use FFB sticks?

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does any of you use FFB sticks?

 

Need to try it with a FF stick (where does people get that B in acronym of "Force Feedback" anyways?) that is super nice compared to any normal stick as the trimming ain't a problem.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the real plane can refuel only in straight and level flight. there should be the way to turn autopilot off.

 

You expect that fighters are refueling while in a dive and roll?

 

I think that how difficult it is to master the air refueling even by experienced pilots when in straight and level, that no one would be so idiotic to try that in such conditions that ain't so.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiN9M0ahfmM

 

Air refueling has even limitations for the weather conditions when it can be done and one of the last things you want to do in carrier operations is to be a bolter as after 2-3 attempts you are put to hold and likely need to go perform air refueling as you can be up there for extra hour or so flying in your isolation pattern.

 

The tanker pilot is there doing his job to make it as easy as possible for fighter pilots to approach and get connection. Same is for boom operator so they don't need to operate against both pilots, first joker doing own tricks with tanker and then other trying to chase then this joker flying with low fuel.

 

If the tanker is going to keep its pattern and to turn, you very likely are disconnected before it and disallowed to approach before turn is completed and tanker is again in straight and level flight.

 

Then there are these difficult weather conditions when you are forced to get connection and that likely is again situation where a autopilot can be far superior to pilot as it can do more controlled corrections and faster even without overshooting.

So it could be said that you tank with the autopilot and you train to do so in emergency situation only without one.


Edited by Fri13

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

? Nothing 'idiotic' here. Just a lack of knowledge on your side. These guys can of course even connect while turning.

 

Yes just as was said that the dampened gives 10 degree roll and 5 degree pitch control, plenty for turning without requirement to turn RF off.

 

That is the point that the turns are so wide that it is possible, as I know the tankers are there as well just flying a circle instead going from A to B.

 

So thank you for being an humorous.

 

The system works just fine and gives plenty of authority to maneuver.

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not being humorous at all. It's cleary visible that this pilot isn't using any AP mode at all.

If you can do precise formation flying there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to refuel while rolling in and out of turns.

Su-33 is now a teen-fighter?

 

And please check the standard air refueling tanker operations procedures.... When and how they fly with given situations (tanker, receiver, air space etc requirements).

 

The Su-33 RF mode dampening the controls for given attitude is there to make things easier.

 

And I haven't seen a tight acrobatic formation flying in a storm or high turbulence situations, where a tanker still might need to operate if mission requires so.

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are completely missing the point. And again; refueling in a turn without autopilot isn't 'idiotic'.
You do know why there is the RF in Su-33?

Are you flying acrobatic formations in Su-33 without FCS?

 

 

Your video is about F-18....

How do you know that pilot didn't have FCS enabled? Does F-18 have special FCS mode for dampening the controls when probe is extended like Su-33 has?

At least F-18 FCS is more complicated than what Sukhoi has...

 

That is the point that you are missing, WHY in Su-33 you need to disable the FCS dampening controls when it does so only at +/-5 pitch and +/-10 roll? That is more than enough.

 

So I ask again.... Why you need to be able perform refueling in a deep dive and banking over 10 degree from the trimmed position?

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is possible in the su33 to refuel in a turn (in game). It’s much harder but very possible. I think the tanker moves a lot vertically but again- once you’re hooked up you don’t need to follow every up and down bump as the hose has some play in it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And again; refueling in a turn without autopilot isn't 'idiotic'.

 

While Fri13 is quite able to respond himself, where did he say it was ?

What he said was that refuelling in a dive and roll was :

 

You expect that fighters are refueling while in a dive and roll?

 

I think that how difficult it is to master the air refueling even by experienced pilots when in straight and level, that no one would be so idiotic to try that in such conditions that ain't so.

 

& that the Su-33's AP had enough authority to accommodate the slight roll in the video you posted.

 

The fact that an F-18 pilot refuels without using an AP has little bearing in whether Su-33 pilots do or don't.

 

Not the same plane, not the same military. See the discussion on the Su-33 AoA indexer:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=194158

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is it me or the thing is that our stick are recentering with the spring? maybe without that... could be good.

 

I7 7700k - Msi Z270 Gaming+

GTX 1070ti

16gb @2400

2x Samsung 850EVO 250/500 - 1x HDD 1TB

SAITEK-MAD CATZ CYBORG FLY 5 STICK

WIN 10

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...