New MIRAGE 2000 Flight Model

[kreisch]

And again here we are, comparing a saloon and a sports car?

I would rather like to rely on guys flying military jets than something else. For example I am not able to evaluate how a super moto bike shall drive because I only know Superbikes ;)

 

Gesendet von meinem F5121 mit Tapatalk

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

There is no need to compare the stick position and the aircraft movement, this is just aerodynamically how an aircraft is moving in the air.

 

Look at this one, at the very beginning when the aircraft is rlling on the right (I thing the pilot is not using the full deflection of its stick) :

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mirage+2000+HUD

 

Clearly, the aircraft does not stop rolling suddently.

 

On this one, from 3:52, it is quite evident too :

 

 

Are you just trying to troll us??¿?¿?¿:huh: quite hard to fail TWICE posting youtube videos references...Anyway, I don't know what are you talking about...mirage 2000 does in fact characterice for a very sharp roll controll, really the oposite of what your are saying. If you use videos to "support" your comments, here is mine to support my comment:

 

at 35s exactly look how sharp/abrupt the stop of the roll is (there are plenty of times in the video where this is like that):

 

 

Even without watching the stick, Im pretty sure this is how the plane (its FBW) will fly this plane.

 

Also, this is greatly dependant of the speed of the plane...at lower speeds, sharp controll is much less possible which already happens in the DCS m2000 so please, elaborate.

 

thanks!

Edited December 16, 2017 by watermanpc

[jojo]

www.dailymotion.com/video/x9adkc

 

Look the video from 8' to see how the guys are shaken in this Mirage 2000B doing some fast rolls.

I think it mostly depends on haw the pilot bring back the stick to neutral roll, you can stop it gently, but if you put quickly to neutral, you will have "brutal stop".

 

Sorry for the music and all that :megalol:

(Official FAF video, they often use free of right music)http://dai.ly/x9adkchttp://dai.ly/x9adkc

Edited December 16, 2017 by jojo

[jojo]

HELP. I can’t land the Mirage anymore after the recent change!!! It seems I have to land at like 220 knots to keep the hud AoA markets correct otherwise it just seems to bomb. Is there a new procedure to land correctly please. Cheers

 

Please read this post:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3326710&postcount=302

[FSKRipper]

www.dailymotion.com/video/x9adkc

 

Look the video from 8' to see how the guys are shaken in this Mirage 2000B doing some fast rolls.

I think it mostly depends on haw the pilot bring back the stick to neutral roll, you can stop it gently, but if you put quickly to neutral, you will have "brutal stop".

 

Sorry for the music and all that :megalol:

(Official FAF video, they often use free of right music)http://dai.ly/x9adkchttp://dai.ly/x9adkc

 

Thanks Jojo. Your words fit much better than mine. By countersteering I meant bringing the stick back to neutral by force :thumbup:

[vctpil]

Hi,

 

Saying that I am trolling you it's the exactly the same that ignoring the basics of aerodynamics!

 

In demo, the pilot compensate the moment effect by crossing the flight controls : in example stick to the right to start the roll and quick stick to the left to stop instantaneously to roll, and I did the same when I was flying the Extra 300.

 

So a demo cannot be a reference.

 

I persist : an aircraft is not flying like that, it is not realistic! Try some roll maneuver in the F-5 and you will see. FBW improve the maneuvrability but does not cancel the aerodynamics effect!

[jojo]

in example stick to the right to start the roll and quick stick to the left to stop instantaneously to roll, and I did the same when I was flying the Extra 300.

 

Yes but Extra 300 can roll twice faster than most jet fighters, including Mirage 2000 (270°/s) and doesn't have FBW.

 

And seriously, you bring some HUD footage of solo display training then you dismiss this type of video ?

 

Try BMS Falcon 4.0 to see how it rolls and stops and go tell them it doesn't behave like your B777...

Edited December 16, 2017 by jojo

[Rlaxoxo]

I don't want the M2000 FM to look like the 777, that's not the point.

 

If you have the F-5, when you release the control in roll for example, the aircraft take 0.5 seconds, even less to stabilize.

 

That should be the same with any aircraft, proportinally to its design and flight control system.

 

The M2000 just stop suddenly to roll when you release the controls. This is not how an aircraft is flying, simply.

 

Just look at some cockpit footage of some M2000 in demo, and you will see.

 

Cheers,

 

FBW is made to counter that if you look at the air shows externally the elevons deploy in opposite direction for a split second to counter the roll

 

It's how it's designed and Mirage is not "Any aircraft" it's lots different then "most" especially when you compare it to F-5

 

Example:

[derodo]

So...does the latest official 1.5.8 version (not the Open Beta) include the latest updates on the M2K?

 

I'm so confused...I guess it does, but the release notes of the official update don't say anything about it.

[mvsgas]

So...does the latest official 1.5.8 version (not the Open Beta) include the latest updates on the M2K?

 

I'm so confused...I guess it does, but the release notes of the official update don't say anything about it.

 

AFAIK, it includes everything here

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3304547&postcount=61

[derodo]

And yet, no word about the Mirage...there are like three different updates, one is stated as "For Open Beta Only", though it seems it made it to the public release anyway.

 

I'm assuming that since the udated was from 1.5.7 to 1.58 and the mirage updates were already pushed for the beta version previously, everything is carried over to the official version.

 

But again, there's no easy way to tell what the update is about (not for me at least).

[vctpil]

FBW is made to counter that if you look at the air shows externally the elevons deploy in opposite direction for a split second to counter the roll

 

It's how it's designed and Mirage is not "Any aircraft" it's lots different then "most" especially when you compare it to F-5

 

Example:

 

Completely agree with you. Anyway, the air is compressible and there will some effect of this compressibility even with the FBW.

 

There should be an very light effect of the roll in the FM, it would be more "natural".

 

Personnaly, I no longer have the pleasure to fly this fantastic aircraft, but I will make some more test with some weapons and tank.

 

Cheers,

[Esac_mirmidon]

Jojo thanks a lot for your wonderful tip on landing the Mirage.

 

I´ve tested a 10.000 kg weight Mirage with 4 AA missiles on Sochi following your advice ( -3º, 14º AoA on the brackets, trimmed with AP and then off ) , and is a dream come true. The softests, easiest landing ever.

 

Very proffesional looking XDDD

 

Any advice how to avoid the Warning when the front wheel touch the ground?

 

Thanks again for your kind help through the forum

[kobeshow]

And yet, no word about the Mirage...there are like three different updates, one is stated as "For Open Beta Only", though it seems it made it to the public release anyway.

 

I'm assuming that since the udated was from 1.5.7 to 1.58 and the mirage updates were already pushed for the beta version previously, everything is carried over to the official version.

 

But again, there's no easy way to tell what the update is about (not for me at least).

 

Sadly the official patch notes have not contained anything regarding the Mirage since January 27th this year. I have brought this up in conversations where even Zeus was replying, and yet there is no clear answer as to why we cannot follow the Mirage's progress in the official updates.

 

ED says "all developers can add info to the changelog", RAZBAM says "we submitted all the changes to ED" ... so someone is either lying or they are purposefully ambiguous to maintain plausible deniability.

[myHelljumper]

Completely agree with you. Anyway, the air is compressible and there will some effect of this compressibility even with the FBW.

 

There should be an very light effect of the roll in the FM, it would be more "natural".

 

Personnaly, I no longer have the pleasure to fly this fantastic aircraft, but I will make some more test with some weapons and tank.

 

Cheers,

 

Use the CTRL+Enter to see what the FBW is doing. You will see that when you return to center the FBW will do a big opposite roll to stop immediately the roll moment.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Hi,

 

Saying that I am trolling you it's the exactly the same that ignoring the basics of aerodynamics!

 

In demo, the pilot compensate the moment effect by crossing the flight controls : in example stick to the right to start the roll and quick stick to the left to stop instantaneously to roll, and I did the same when I was flying the Extra 300.

 

So a demo cannot be a reference.

 

I persist : an aircraft is not flying like that, it is not realistic! Try some roll maneuver in the F-5 and you will see. FBW improve the maneuvrability but does not cancel the aerodynamics effect!

 

As others have said, this is exactly what FBW is suposed to do...also, I KNOW how pilots compensate inertias of the roll by fast counter-moving the stick in the oposite side so generating roll in the other direction and making the plane to stop rolling very sharply, but once again, this is much less needed (or even not needed at all) in the mirage 2000 as thats one of the things FBW will do for you.

 

About trolling I mean your videos...which btw you still not fixing...

[GoR-07Vlad]

Hello! I did a Mirage test. It would be interesting to show it to the knowledgeable (pilots). In my opinion FM is very good, but the question remains with the aerobatic bell. Sorry for my English (google translate) Track made in Nevada

mirage.trk

Edited December 16, 2017 by =GoR-07=Vlad

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Hello! I did a Mirage test. It would be interesting to show it to the knowledgeable (pilots). In my opinion FM is very good, but the question remains with the aerobatic bell. Sorry for my English (google translate) Track made in Nevada

 

You mean the "tail slide"?...if so, yes, I'm also interested in knowing why we can't do it or wht this m2000 version can't do it...

[jojo]

There are videos of Dassault test pilots perfoming tail slide during airshow.

 

AFAIK tail slide are prohibited in FAF because of safety concerns and maybe engine wearing.

 

I didn't tested yet in DCS.

[gavagai]

New FM is very enjoyable. Thank you Razbam.

[Hoffster]

Any videos on youtube of the new flight model or how to use the new AP?.

[jojo]

The only thing to understand about the AP is that when you engage it, it trims the aircraft (pitch + roll) for current flight conditions.

When you put it off or stand by the trim value is kept.

 

The rest is unchanged.

[Hoffster]

The only thing to understand about the AP is that when you engage it, it trims the aircraft (pitch + roll) for current flight conditions.

When you put it off or stand by the trim value is kept.

 

The rest is unchanged.

 

Ok, Thanks for that. I am tempted to buy this again on the next sale for standalone. Good job by Razbam.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

There are videos of Dassault test pilots perfoming tail slide during airshow.

 

AFAIK tail slide are prohibited in FAF because of safety concerns and maybe engine wearing.

 

I didn't tested yet in DCS.

 

Yes, someone said that a few pages back, but thing is...why we can't perform it in DCS?, I mean, even if its dangerous in real life and such, as you said, there are some videos where you can see pilots performing it but when trying it in DCS the plane FM behaves VERY odd and unnatural...Other planes in DCS with advanced FM can perform this maneuver so why the m2000 behaves so "scripted"once you do this?, the nose doesn't even come down.

 

thanks!

[jojo]

I have to test with new FM, it used to work.

 

But guys, that's not like it's something you're doing every time in dogfight.

This new FM brings a lot of good things, so let's not whine for something in the corner of the flight envelope where you wouldn't want be in the middle of a fight.