104th Phoenix - Operation Longbow - Dynamic PvP Mission

[epoch]

Nothing specifically to do with 104th's mission. Seems that post-2.5 the permission feature isn't working on the Gazelle. Not sure about other dual seat modules though (I don't have them).

[Badlego]

May it be possible to script some kind of joing-request, because the vanilla one is not working....and as long as it isnt my suggestion would be to fly the gazelle from the copilot-seat the whole time....

[JunMcKill]

i will not call names, but someone enterd my gazelle as a copilot without my permission...after he left i had to respawn because after that i wasnt able to enter the copilot seat anymore....any suggestions? i thought that its not possible to enter a copilot seat without permission...

 

LMFAO!! ahhh remember those days in ARMA, when a rookie always managed to get into my tank and my AI standing outside waiting! :pilotfly:

[=Pedro=]

i will not call names, but someone enterd my gazelle as a copilot without my permission...after he left i had to respawn because after that i wasnt able to enter the copilot seat anymore....any suggestions? i thought that its not possible to enter a copilot seat without permission...

 

It wasn't just "someone" :D

 

Jokes apart, sorry for joining without permission. Back in the days, it was impossible iirc. I joined Mustang gazelle too (sorry dude). Didn't have time to even set my controls after 2.5 update and unable to fly properly (still waiting for my pedals).

 

Anyways, I really appreciate your flying skills Badlego. Next time I will make sure I'm in the right chopper :thumbup:

 

S!

 

=Pedro=

[Badlego]

It wasn't just "someone" :D

 

Jokes apart, sorry for joining without permission. Back in the days, it was impossible iirc. I joined Mustang gazelle too (sorry dude). Didn't have time to even set my controls after 2.5 update and unable to fly properly (still waiting for my pedals).

 

Anyways, I really appreciate your flying skills Badlego. Next time I will make sure I'm in the right chopper :thumbup:

 

S!

 

=Pedro=

 

We could have done some strikes together, but then SRS or TS is necessary :thumbup:

[docWilly]

We could have done some strikes together, but then SRS or TS is necessary :thumbup:

 

Thats the way it has to go....:thumbup: As the "joining request" seems to be inop it would be nice if the potential Commander would ask via TS or SRS PRIOR to entering left seat. It´s kinda frustrating flying to the AO and THEN realizing that someone joined left and quit short before reaching the target area...because then you are done....as you (the pilot) can not handle left seat on your own anymore and you´ll have to restart again (had it 3 times in a row and therafter rage quit by me :mad: - and this beeing 49 yrs old :cry: ).

 

Anyways....everybody is welcome to join my left seat with proper comms (SRS Ch30) set up and asking....would be fun.

[DieHard]

Some bandit have placed blue units and a MANPAD up at FARP Zemo that kills the helos before they have chance to rearm. Tried to kill with GUN but well hidden in buildings and trees. He should be on the current track, ban the player please.

 

EDIT: And just restart the mission also.

EDIT2: He is not a "sucker" but a genius who discovered the unprotected base by looking at the mission and making a plan on how to get up to the FARP without being spotted. He also managed to place at lest two units so either the job was done twice or he had help.

 

 

I fly red.

 

I'm not pissed.

 

I thought this server was about WAR!

 

I try to get in close behind the blue all the time.

 

Huey pilot >>> Cheers!!!

 

More fun to vulch blue airdales while they are taxiing or taking off...

Edited February 14, 2018 by DieHard

[HiJack]

I fly red.

 

I'm not pissed.

 

I thought this server was about WAR!

 

I try to get in close behind your blue lines all the time.

 

Huey pilot >>> Cheers!!!

 

More fun to vulch blue airdales while they are taxiing or taking off...

 

Yes, it was more that there was no defence at that FARP, not even a AAA. The only FARP without any form of defence. But it is fine. Making missions behind blue lines is reliant on no working GCI.

[DieHard]

The potential is huge once 2.5 becomes stable. Great server, lots of fun until I get a random DC. Thanks.

 

I have a GTX 970 and 17-2600 CPU which is considered low level currently.

 

Once I get loaded up in game on this server I can run my 970 wide open, all settings maxed out with frame rates over 60!!

 

In previous editions of DCS I had to do the opposite.

 

I am truly surprised and happy.

[DieHard]

Yes, it was more that there was no defence at that FARP, not even a AAA. The only FARP without any form of defence. But it is fine. Making missions behind blue lines is reliant on no working GCI.

 

 

A tree got me last time almost to my destination...

 

Not easy sneaking in under the radar in Ka-50 .

 

Wee hours and nobody on also is helpful.

[DieHard]

Embrace the realism and the immersion of operating multiple radios as the real guys would :thumbup: It's definitely a little bit of a learning curve but very quickly it becomes second nature to you just like everything else.

 

Also, just a tip that I've found to help limit the comms overload a bit: While I always join in the 104th TS when flying, once I am loaded in to the server and on SRS comms I mute my mic and my sound. If someone wants to contact me to coordinate in flight, I request that they do so via SRS. Otherwise I catch myself having to work to figure out if someone is talking to me in SRS or in TS, and that is an unnecessary workload for me. TS is pre-flight, SRS is in flight.

 

SRS is not used very often on the RED side.

 

Finally found out a few nights ago that my SRS is setup correctly. Somebody came on and wanted to do a coordinated attack.

 

Both TS3 and SRS I expect professional in-flight comms behavior. If idle talk and BS; I mute my end and fly quietly solo!

 

RED needs to start acting like a pro air force and work as a team.

[104th_Maverick]

Server updated to HotFix 3 - 2.5.0.14304.321

[Shadoga]

Possible ME issue report:

Today I spawncrashed into an other player's F15 in Kutaisi Shelter 22.

I was using slot 2B_Kutaisi_F15C_A2.

The conflicting slot might be 2A_Kutaisi_F15C_A1.

Not shure about that though, I just vaguely recall spawning in 22 when taking this first Kutaisi Eagle slot...

[DieHard]

GCI__Question

==========

 

What can GCI see?

 

If I take off from a Red FARP and head for mountain valleys for cover (radar blindness), can a Blue GCI guy see my movements outright from the get-go, in real time, or do other factors play in such as placing radar units close in to my area and such working tactics ?

Edited February 15, 2018 by DieHard

[Reaper6]

GCI__Question

==========

 

What can GCI see?

 

If I take off from a Red FARP and head for mountain valleys for cover (radar blindness), can a Blue GCI guy see my movements outright from the get-go, in real time, or do other factors play in such as placing radar units close in to my area and such working tactics ?

 

 

 

They have AWACS up, so I just assume they can always see me. They also have EWR's and Patriot Batteries, so you're bound to be picked up by one of those three if not by other aircraft. You can download the mission, I did this just to see what AWACS/EWR/Patriot. I sent a AI ka50 around and you can pretty much see him the whole time.

 

 

Stay low and stay close to cities, is about all I can suggest if Blue has a GCI. If they don't have GCI, it's your advantage! GCI can see everything that any sensor on that side can see Ground, Sea, and Air.

 

 

Reaper6

[Shadoga]

GCI mostly never sees enemy aircraft without his coalition's fighters painting them with onboard radar, and yes - many other factors seem to play in... - I just can't figure them out.

 

In another aspect, GCI (i.e. JTAC/field observer CA role used here in this mission) screen data is quite unrealistic IMHO since your own friendly GCIs will always see you, no matter how deep you hide below any radar coverage. This is similarly unrealistic as Simple Radio being set to unlimited/unobstructed range on the server. Now, SR settings are a well considered decision by the server admin, for the unlimited visibility of friendly units I'm not shure if it's a setting or an issue of DCS not offering the realisic radar coverage option for that.

 

For GCI on the F10-Map seeing enemy airborne units or not, I have the feel it is modeled far from realisic in the sim and the probability of detection is very low plus based on wrong (simulated datalink) information.

I'm also almost shure that what human GCI sees on the F10-Map is less than AI AWACS is calling out on radio in-game.

 

Examples:

 

- AWACS/EWR will not show inbound hostiles even within 50 - 10 miles from themselves and above the horizon on the GCI F10 view if it is not additionally tracked (search mode is not enough) by a friendly fighter radar.

 

- The same crappy performance like AWACS seemingly not datalinking anything down to GCI onto his F10 situation display goes for any EWR radar.

I've never seen an impact on radar coverage for the GCI F10 view if an EWR is erected or destroyed. The only ones who show you enemy aircraft are friendly fighters. AWACS getting shot down doesn't seem to matter either. You also don't get datalink from friendly SAM sites (not even medium or large ones who should integrate into an air defence network) - you just see their missiles after launch but not what they are going for.

 

- All friendly fighters seem to have virtual datalink to GCI view, so if a MiG21 or an F-5E have locked someone, F10 will show it...

 

- GCI F10 map also shows what friendly units pick up on other sensors, like sometimes you get a popup of an enemy ground radar that some friendly has a mudspike of on his RWR (or is it only in case of mud launches?).

 

It is my observation that GCI has way too low SA due to missing AWACS/EWR/SAM data and is mainly relaying to his "customers" on frequency what some other friendly fighters can actually see on their scopes - which is a huge setback for me. I usually like that part of our online gaming experience enough to provide GCI service anyway every now and then.

But when only a little thing comes on top of the abovementioned drawback, like no longer being able to see aircraft labels alone since Hotfix1 (now only all labels = too cluttered screen - or no labels at all), I step back for a little while from offering hour-long, whole evening GCI services and enjoy flying around instead...

Edited February 15, 2018 by Shadoga

[HiJack]

Can LotATC be a better tool to use for GCI?

[DieHard]

Thanks guys in response to my GCI question.

[104th_Maverick]

Can LotATC be a better tool to use for GCI?

 

 

It's the long term plan to have LotATC however until it can fucntion properly in a high density server we will be sticking with Combined Arms.

 

The good news is LotATC is working together with SATAL so hopefully that will speed the process up a bit.

We know it's a fantastic programme however it has traditionally not done so well in our server once the numbers start to get above 40.

 

Hopefully this year will be the year we can start using it full time!

[Shadoga]

Greetings, fellow jetjockeys, rotorheads, C2 operators & 104th admins!

 

As a follow-up to my personal observations & impressions regarding human GCI on 104th Public Server Operation Longbow I'm writing this as an unsorted brainstorming of conclusions and suggestions.

All below is only valid IMHO and as long as there's no major change to server settings, rules or DCS MP code. This is not a call for change, it's already great as it is and I love it.

I just want you to remember that if you change your tactics in Operation Longbow because of what I post below, you will need to review them from time to time if still valid after future adjustments...

 

So for introduction, please start with post #317 above (that is now one page back...)!

 

*imagine Jeopardy music here*

(oh wait, wait, it's out there...):

 

 

I conciously tested my above-posted impressions yesterday evening on the server while flying a blue F15 under human GCI (awesome jobs, @Migdriver & @Aeons !):

While I can see 4 bandits on my scope all the time in RWS or TWS, human GCI will only call individual short-notice pop-ups on them if I put one of them in STT hardlock.

TWS softlock shows him absolutely nothing.

If I unlock them again from STT after only 1 or 2 seconds to get my full radar picture back, GCI might not have had the time/chance to click on the enemy target to readout altitude and type from the info box.

His call will be incomplete ("level/type unknown, faded again.").

 

- Suggestion: in order to feed human GCI with target data, it would be great if all fighter pilots travelling towards an engagement would put all their bogey radar targets into STT one after another and keep up each hardlock for at least 4-5 seconds.

Of course, when approaching weapon employment ranges, other priorities take over like target sorting, TWS softlocking etc.

But between 40-20NM out, commiting to this new STT workload would give GCI the chance to figure them out and assist you in your tactical setup for the engagement ahead.

If 2-4 friendly fighters proceeding forward employ this new system operation at the same time, CGI will almost have a continuous picture on the bandits.

Note: I haven't fully tested what locking an ECM strobe does, but it also doesn't seem to relay data to CGI (which is realistic except that he should see the strobes on his own screen himself).

(You can still continue hardlocking strobes to annoy the emitter with RWR sounds...)

I also haven't checked out yet for the red side if a russian fighter's EOS-only lock might be "uploaded" to the red GCI's situation display... - any input on that is appreciated.

Btw, sneaky red Flankers can now fly assured that they are not at disadvantage when blue has someone in the GCI slot and red doesn't: your datalink shows you way more than what the blue GCI can see and blue fighters still only have your position occasionally through AI AWACS/EWR or own onboard radar but not through human GCI with godview... - he's blind most of the time instead, even when you're flying out in the open and not being locked.

 

- Conclusion: AI AWACS/GCI have a better picture than your human GCI because those bastards don't relay their data to him.

Therefore it is wise to request an AI bogey dope more often, e.g. when airborne or cold after defensive maneuvering (human GCI will not see the bandit close behind unless another friendly locked him up).

Since client bogey dope request numbers might rise because of this, it is even more important to NEVER EVER "request picture" from AI!!!

On a half full server, AI will give you 10 contacts, taking away precious frequency time from other players while calling them out - and you will not be able to memorize or deal with more than the first two contacts anyway...!

 

Heads up, rotorheads!

- Conclusion: since AWACS and EWRs don't seem to feed radar data to the human GCI operator's F10 display, it currently doesn't make any sense to ask him where to haul crates to dangerous locations and build new EWRs for the benefit of human GCI.

You still can do it, the results are ambiguous: on the one hand you get your coalition a new AI info source and radar coverage at a location where the other AI units maybe couldn't see before.

On the other hand you clutter AI radio chatter with some new AI units who call enemies to different friendlies in an unreadble and annoying mix of several english & russian AI voices at the same time...

The errection of EWRs and the arrival of new AWACS doesn't do anything good for your human GCI's picture, nor does destruction/shootdown of one of them have any effect on him.

It just effects the available AI services.

 

Drifting away from the "datalink or no datalink" a little now, I would like to suggest that everyone should contribute more to an even greater, more realistic and diversified gaming experience on 104th server while playing Longbow.

 

First to @[Maverick] :

- The mission is never the same since the state of conflict and air and ground situation are never identical when you join - you really achieved that gloriously.

But I think for daily or regular hardcore fans of the mission, especially the first two hours after a restart have become somewhat routine: same longhaul chopper & CAS missions, same enemy units in same places to be killed.

I'm not asking for this to be changed since I know the workload would be immense. But I strongly suggest to keep up the great job of diversifying the mission variants down to even smaller tidbits:

Having different seasons variants is great! The winter map made Air-to-Air at the even longer night hours in the FC3 aircraft bearable and added a nasty challenge of being easily spottable for chopper pilots.

Keep up testing and tweaking around with weather! Clouds are a huge gamechanger for BVR/WVR (not overcast but scattered with cloud base heights varying.

Keep playing around with temperature and please start changing atmospheric pressure! It was great to see different engine idle power readings on the cold winter map.

Now make people think about their altimeter settings other than ISA - maybe give rotorheads a headache by creating a "high&hot" summer variant with high temps and low pressure!

 

Everyone else:

- Calls to join Teamspeak and especially Simple Radio are already all over the place - operating those radios with frequency changes and volume management already adds so much!

And yet there is even more every one of you can do, examples:

 

- Operate your flight under a callsign instead of your pilot nickname!

You will have to connect to the server with that flight callsign but you can still keep your pilot nick written behind for identification, for example:

connect as "DODGE11 | Shadoga" and human GCI/ATC will be able to adress you with a realistic callsign.

If you don't want to chose something spectacularly individual: find out what the DCS AI callsign of your client slot is and use this one.

That way you have the highest realism by being called the same callsign by AI as well as human GCI. Makes it much easier to uphold comms SA.

 

- Don't fly on your own without any contact to fellow players!Get on Teamspeak for an actual sitrep, to coordinate with fellow fighter, bomber or helo pilots for better effect of your intended flight!

Once in game, use Simple Radio - every level of communications is better than zero! Even on your lone wolf mission the chance to pick up GCIs attempt to warn you of enemies might save your gaming experience of the day!

The mission is a team effort and only teamplay can win the map.

 

- Another great way of diversifying the mission would be to use varying callsigns for AWACS/GCI.

"MAGIC" is so commonly used that it has become the synonym for C2 service in the DCS community ("Do we have a MAGIC online?").

@Migdriver has set a great example for using different callsigns for himself acting as GCI: besides MAGIC, I heard him use DARKSTAR and others.

DCS ME offers 5 different callsigns for an AI E-3 AWACS: while MAGIC is used for 90% of all missions for being the ME default, OVERLORD is rare and DARKSTAR even more so.

I never came across FOCUS & WIZARD, don't even know if they exist as sound snippets for AI radio chatter... ;)

 

Again for @[Maverick] :

- I know you can't just alternate callsigns for the tankers due to briefing text and in-game identification reasons.

But you could easily alter AI AWACS callsigns for different variants of Longbow.

 

To my fellow human GCI operators registered as C2 service providers for 104th public dedi server:

- Try operating GCI using different callsigns for yourself, it's a great and fun challenge for you and your "customer" clients!

There are dozens of real US/NATO callsigns for AWACS/GCI available on the web, e.g.:

BANDSAW, CHALICE, DISCO, IMAGE, KAPUT, LOOKOUT, MAST, SCORE, SHOWTIME (real red side NTTR C2 callsign) and many more.

I will mostly use SHOWTIME or VANYA on red when providing GCI. On blue, I operate mainly as LONESHIP, SENTRY or SKYNET.

 

- Funny war story to wrap it all up:

Last week I was Sunrise as LONESHIP for a whole evening session.

Someone who didn't get my callsign just right when I called him adressed me as LONGSHIT, and in the aftermath at least two other friendlies died lacking heads-up calls from my side until I could stop laughing and resumed service...

 

It's up to all of us to contribute to the fun and longevity of Longbow.

Thanks for your attention, kind regards!

Edited February 16, 2018 by Shadoga

[Shadow KT]

Hey, something really weird just happend @1200Z +-15minutes

 

I was RTB taunting some Su-27s to come and get me (me in an A-10C)

 

Randomly I got hit, but it did very small damage, as if I was hit by a single bullet, but an explosive ones.

 

I thought it was a missile shot to the MWS"S blind spot, but I looked back no tracers, no smoke trails, nothing.

 

AWACS called out MERGE and I turn around to engage, when I see him being splashed by a friendly manpad. Nobody else in the area

 

I turn back towards the homeplate, and the same thing happens, now doing a bit more damage...

 

I again break defencive look behind me, nothing, no smoke trails, no tracers, no jets... nothing.

 

Almost everything is still working.

 

I continue flying towards home plate... and this just keeps happening, like small explosions(the hit sound if you know what I mean) foe 3 more times, when I loose almost all of my systems, but I was already close the airfield so I made an emergency landing....

 

It was super weird.... There were no enemies around me.... Only 1 other enemy fighter but he was 50 miles out and the rest of the enemy players which were in ground attack or helicopters were freshly spawned....

 

I even thought about sneaky MANPADs put on the wya back to Senaki, but there were no missile trails, nothing...

 

Could it have been a cheater ?

[Shadow KT]

@Shadoga

 

I just listened to 8 minutes of Jeopardy's theme :lol: while reading.

 

I've always wanted to call myself "WIZARD" :megalol:

 

But, yeah... the current state of the forwards observer slot is.... atrocious

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but it didn't used to be like this. Having AWACS and EWRs, did help with the picture... and with the name tags being removed....

 

I believe that ED should work on these observer slots and make them dedicated ATC/GCI ones with special features. Would really bring up the quality and it will remove the need of 3rd party software (meaning it will increase sells of the CA module). They have a really good opportunity with this.

 

The other night, I watched a SA-11 shoot 9 missiles at a Harrier, at 15 thousand feet, 15-16nm out, heading straight towards the SA-11. All the missiles ran out of energy before they can reach the Harrier, and he wasn't even maneuvering (he did get splashed by a fighter eventually), so yeah the AI is ...

Edited February 16, 2018 by Shadow KT

[Buckeye]

Would be nice if I could update my callsign while in the server...that way if I join and end up going on a sortie with Mustang, we could on the fly change our in-game to Phoenix 11 and Phoenix 12.

 

Too much of a PITA to leave the server then come back any time you want to update your callsign for your current flight package (especially so with the long load times people are experiencing)

 

That said, 100% agree that I would like to see the practice of adding a flight name and # preceding callsigns...we just need ED's help to make it more feasible.

[Shadow KT]

Or .... we can have the call sign of the slot we are in, be displayed in front of our names. No need to change names

 

Tho, at this point we can't even see the names, on F10, without labels on

[alfredo_laredo]

Hi, from the 117th squad we been flying a lot of Mi8 latetly, just a couple of quesions.

 

the Ka50 at farps cant rearm? and Cant carry troops so whats the point? (bug?)

 

Whats the point of Arming EWR? its exclusive for the GCI player controlled position?

 

At what day/time shoud we expect a GCI player on the red side?

 

And do I need to become a GCI?

 

#1 Mi8 at gali starts jumping up and down like crazy, #2-4 are ok