Any refuelling tips for M2K after new FM?

[Pikey]

I am a competent refueller. However the Mirage is proving very difficult in pitch with the new changes. Pitch seems to do nothing initially, then unstick and lurch up/down.

 

Also throttle is quite difficult to nail too, it feel like a slippery bird compared to the Harrier which is very easy to refuel. I have to use Speedbrakes in the M2K, don't in the harrier, and there is an associated difficulty as it affects speed quite quickly and pitch too. I thought the nose probe would make it easier, but in fact, it's quite hard.

 

So the FM changes seem to work against this. I tried using trim, but the inputs on trim are too large for refueling and just sends it oscillating away. I tried using Autopilot, but that's not cutting it, the small movements needed in A-A refueling don't come through, and the trim hat moves too coarse.

 

So are there any settings advised in pit? For my stick I change the Pitch saturation to a ridiculously sensitive number, but can i force flaps or am i missing a trick with the AP? Does anyone regularly refuel? It took me 4 basket connects and I was getting close to Istanbul by the time I was done!

 

Comparatively the Harrier, from precontact to connect I'm taking 2-6 minutes, which is a large gap (understand its not the same thing, but it's the same goal and im sure pilots wouldn't have this issue irl in a Mirage?)

 

Any help or ideas?

[Esac_mirmidon]

You are usng the A-G AP mode for refueling?

 

Is much easier.

[jojo]

Fly by wire mode AA/ CHARGES => CHARGES indeed.

Use AP to trim "on speed" in pre-contact position, then turn it off.

With small speed variation (3 to 5kt max) trim shouldn't be an issue.

Close in to the basket slowly.

Once you got it, it's fairly easy (and I always sucked at AAR, I still does but much less with M-2000C :joystick:)

 

You don't need airbrakes in Harrier, you have air intakes :D

[S_Froggy]

hello

Here is a track made just for you.

I just use a little bit of trim to be stable at refluel speed with KC-130 (here 235knts).

Lots of small stick inputs and throttle adjustment (remember that more power = climb)

M2K demo AAR.trk

Edited February 10, 2018 by S_Froggy
typo about speed of tanker

[Spetz]

Never thought about using A-G mode.. gonna have to try that out :)

[jojo]

hello

Here is a track made just for you.

I just use a little bit of trim to be stable at refluel speed with KC-130 (here 135knts).

Lots of small stick inputs and throttle adjustment (remember that more power = climb)

 

135kts ???

 

You can (and should) set the KC-130 faster than that.

 

Optimal is 300kts for the Mirage (and manu fighters).

Slower is more difficult, but you can set the KC-130 at 230kts, or even 260kts at lower altitude.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Personally, I look up the actual cruise speed of tankers and other AI aircraft on Wiki for example, and use those values in the Mission Editor.

 

For a KC-130 (C-130) that would be 540 km/h or +/- 290 knots GS;

For an Il-78 that would be 775 km/h or +/- 418 knots;

For a KC-135 that would be 888 km/h or +/- 480 knots.

 

Of course those values vary based on which engines are used (different for earlier and later models of the KC-135 for example), but for me they are good enough.

 

That will give you between 250 IAS (KC130 at medium altitude) and 290 IAS (Il78 at high altitude). I read somewhere that retractable refuelling probes for fighters have a speed limit of 300 knots so those values let you stay under the limit while not making things harder for you than they should be.

[jojo]

Mirage 2000's probe speed limit is 750kt :D

[S_Froggy]

Typo for tanker speed ... It's 235 knts IAS

[jojo]

Ok, sorry :thumbup:

[Pikey]

Hi, thanks to the respondents and the track especially. I am misunderstanding what this 'FBW mode' or 'AP mode' is completely! :) I've searched through the keybindings so it must be a language/translation thing. Do you mean the

Fly by Wire G-Limiter switch

Fly by Wire Gain mode switch

Another FBW switch like the "channel 5 switch"

The master Autopilot or another autopilot switch?

 

Maybe if it's got a name in French, to point out the button in the pit and I can see what they called it in English so I can unconfuse myself, that would be fantastic, thank you!

[jojo]

Next to the landing gear lever you have a switch labeled "AA/ CHARGES"

 

Put it to "CHARGES" for AA refueling :thumbup:

[Pikey]

OK now i'm even more curious. No CHARGES here. but there is an A/A on the FBW G-Limiter switch.

https://i.imgur.com/BFanWTl.png

[S_Froggy]

this is the right switch.

see page 54 of the flight manual for more explanation about the switch labeled "Fly by Wire G-Limiter" in input config page.

[Pikey]

OK it is that button. The manual calls it the FBW Mode switch, the Control Options call it a FBW G-Limiter Mode and the mouse over also calls it the FBW G-Limiter switch.

But it was called all sorts of things in the initial thread so I didn't get it first time, sorry.

[Skitter]

Hey guys, are you refueling alright after 2.5 hotfix? I connect to the IL-78M and no "contact, you're taking fuel". No "transfer complete, disconnect". I actually don't think any fuel is flowing. Same with KC-130. But...maybe I am doing something wrong, or the custom mission is broken.

 

Any problems with your refueling guys? Cheers

[escaner]

I did this weekend. Don't forget the refueling switch to day or night.

[Skitter]

Hahhahahahahhaha.....sorry guys. I had a two months break from flying because of exams....I was switching the refueling light switch, instead of refueking probe switch :-D Sorry!

[myHelljumper]

Hahhahahahahhaha.....sorry guys. I had a two months break from flying because of exams....I was switching the refueling light switch, instead of refueking probe switch :-D Sorry!

 

There are no separate switches, only one switch with 3 position : OFF - Refuel day - Refuel night (brings on the refuel lights).

[Skitter]

myHelljumper , I was switching the switch directly below the nosewheel light switch. It is described as "Air refueling external light switch" in Chuck's M2000C guide.

[escaner]

From memory, that could be the SERPAM switch, some kind of flight data recorder for debriefing. I don't think it is functional.

[myHelljumper]

myHelljumper , I was switching the switch directly below the nosewheel light switch. It is described as "Air refueling external light switch" in Chuck's M2000C guide.

 

And that is why I only use official documentation :smartass:

 

The switch function was incorrect when the aircraft came out, and corrected after.

[Charly_Owl]

And that is why I only use official documentation :smartass:

 

Since when are user guides supposed to supercede official documentation?

[kobeshow]

And that is why I only use official documentation

 

The switch function was incorrect when the aircraft came out, and corrected after.

 

And that is why you grew a beard that already turned white while waiting for Razbam to update their own manual, for which they had to hire a guy who was learning on the job, even when doing the training missions, and got lots of useful pointers from the community (not a slight against BalticDragon, he is only human and has to work with what is given to him).

 

That just goes to show how reliable "official documentation" is, it has been wrong and has been changed and is subject to change, it is not reliable enough at all for a "study sim" (at least not yet).

Edited February 12, 2018 by kobeshow

[myHelljumper]

I was not going against the work of Chuck or anyone by saying that.

I as saying that one have to be careful when using documents not published by the company.

 

Sorry if this has caused offence to anyone.