Huge improvement in visual acquisition distance for fighters

[falcon_120]

Hello everybody,

 

Just wanted to share here some findings i had today just in case you want to try it out.

 

So i got the Oculus rift 1.5 months ago and from several threads and youtubers suggestioms i started with a PD of 1.5 and AF of 4X and i have been sticking with this settings since then, since the visual quality and the performance was quite nice.

 

However i was having a really hard time spotting target at distance, fighters overall which resulted many times of me dead from someome i did not see coming in to the merge something that never happened wirth trackir where i was able to spot targets at 12-14 miles away, even the missiles.

 

So today i started messing around with the settings, and i started from the very basic, PD 1.0 and AF 0X, the results were amazing, i was able to spot targets and missiles again from 12-14 miles. The drawback, clearly poorer visual quality, but the effectivenes in combat is much better now.

 

For me right now i think i can live with the poorer quality for the improved combat performance, but this wont be true for many of you.

 

PD: If you want to try the difference you could for example try the f15c or su27 intercept instant action mission, there you will see how far you will see the fighters ahead from you.

 

 

 

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[dburne]

Are you talking AF or MSAA?

[falcon_120]

AF, but i also have MSAA at 0X.

 

For me its like having some kind of post processing or PD make the dots representing the fighters at long distance like subtle flickering dots impossible to see against the background unless you know where exactly to look at. When everything is turned off, now the dots are not flickering at all and you can see them clearly from far away even against the ground.

 

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[Wolf8312]

Yeah but does that mean I have to turn off MSSA completely? I've already gone down to 2, not sure I am willing to go further! But I will check it out as spotting is absurdly difficult whenever a plane is on land and below me.

[falcon_120]

Yeah but does that mean I have to turn off MSSA completely? I've already gone down to 2, not sure I am willing to go further! But I will check it out as spotting is absurdly difficult whenever a plane is on land and below me.

Actually i'm not sure which was my MSAA setting, in any case give it a go. If i had to choose i think the most noticeable improvement comes from the PD back to 1.0 more than from AF and MSAA.

 

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Edited June 25, 2018 by falcon_120

[S-GERAT]

Hope ED take this problem in account once and for all and scales the contacts regarding the resolution or the pixel density of VR.. It should not be that hard.

 

I know they are working on the whole system and we are getting improvements, like reflections from sun or moonlight, but this problem is something apart.

[falcon_120]

Hope ED take this problem in account once and for all and scales the contacts regarding the resolution or the pixel density of VR.. It should not be that hard.

 

I know they are working on the whole system and we are getting improvements, like reflections from sun or moonlight, but this problem is something apart.

 

Yeah, either that or a very small 5%-10%ish scaling option for VR users, to compensate for the low resolution in which we currently play in. Obviously as a server option in case is deemed like an unfair advantage, but it would be nice for SP. For the time being i will stick with these options that let me see enemy fighters at a reasonable distance at the cost of a bit blurrier cockpit instrument.

[Wolf8312]

I cant get labels to work. Anyone know why not I bind it to a key 'aircraft' or 'all' but it doesent make any difference, no labels seem to show up.

[wormeaten]

It's an old trick we used in Il2 CloD. Lowering the resolution to enlargen plains model in distance.

 

When you SSing in VR you are actually increasing resolution to get better details and sharper picture but native resolution is still the same. All this SS is a compromise, more SS better instruments reading but harder to spot targets in distance. Less SS is just an opposite but as well more FPS.

In VR we still need a lot of compromises to depend on your preferences.

[TAW_Blaze]

No idea how people spot things 10 nm away. I'm running 1440p on a 27" with TrackIR and I sit about 50 cm from the screen and I can barely spot other fighters 3-4 miles away at best without zooming in or literally knowing where to look. Hell I even fly with more default zoom than most poeple (i.e. in F-15C my usual setup is that I don't see past the canopy bow on the sides). Missile launches I can usually spot but that's a different story :)

[Sniper175]

Weird as I can spot aircraft 30nm away in both the rift and odessey. Actually spotting aircraft in vr is easier than pancake screens for me at least. I run 1.2 t0 1.5 PD depending on headset 16x AF no msaa As it kills fpS

[falcon_120]

No idea how people spot things 10 nm away. I'm running 1440p on a 27" with TrackIR and I sit about 50 cm from the screen and I can barely spot other fighters 3-4 miles away at best without zooming in or literally knowing where to look. Hell I even fly with more default zoom than most poeple (i.e. in F-15C my usual setup is that I don't see past the canopy bow on the sides). Missile launches I can usually spot but that's a different story :)

Try the f15c intercept mission, see at which distance you can spot a target, thrn lower the resolution to 1080p, and you will see an improvement.

 

Although 30mn spotting is another story, hard to believe at least for me, unless you mean spotting the contrails of high flying planes.

 

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[Sniper175]

Nope not contrails. Actual aircraft obviously can’t make out type at that distance but it happens.. matter of fact all the other fellas that I fly with we do an intercept mission in the f18 and I spot bandits way before all them and they are on flat screens.

[falcon_120]

Well, that is impressive, probably you have an above average vision or you have your VR headset very well configured regarding IPD and such.

[Bearfoot]

I agree with the above poster: spotting is easier in VR than in 2D, but it is the ID'ing that I have trouble with.

 

BIG caveat: above statement is for WW2 engagements! In these sorts of things, the other guy not only moves slower but everyone tends to stay closer to each other. And even when moving apart it takes longer to get far enough to "lose the sight" so that in most cases you can still (re-)pick up and track the other guy.

 

With the distances and speeds of jet engagements, on the other hand, as I have recently discovered with the hornet, spotting is challenging in VR as well! I have had 0 success in keeping the sight after the merge. So all my BVR engagements that transition to WVR in which I do not clear the ledger before the merge end in me burning up in a fiery ball as I take a R-73 to my back or my side as I am frantically trying to spot the bogey against the ground.

 

There is a very nice label mode by Vampire that solves the problem with (too much) cheating: it makes labels these little grey ticks that fade with distance. Works beautiful to provide just enough boost to make up for the VR loss of resolution, and with no consequent loss of immersion. Only thing is that this won't help you in MP at all: in servers that don't allow labels, you cannot use it; and in servers that do allow labels (almost none with modern jets), you are better off using the big scream-in-your-face labels because that's what everyone else uses. Still, you *could* use it as practice in anticipation of better VR resolution in the future or until ED provides VR enhancements?

[Wolf8312]

I agree with the above poster: spotting is easier in VR than in 2D, but it is the ID'ing that I have trouble with.

 

BIG caveat: above statement is for WW2 engagements! In these sorts of things, the other guy not only moves slower but everyone tends to stay closer to each other. And even when moving apart it takes longer to get far enough to "lose the sight" so that in most cases you can still (re-)pick up and track the other guy.

 

With the distances and speeds of jet engagements, on the other hand, as I have recently discovered with the hornet, spotting is challenging in VR as well! I have had 0 success in keeping the sight after the merge. So all my BVR engagements that transition to WVR in which I do not clear the ledger before the merge end in me burning up in a fiery ball as I take a R-73 to my back or my side as I am frantically trying to spot the bogey against the ground.

 

There is a very nice label mode by Vampire that solves the problem with (too much) cheating: it makes labels these little grey ticks that fade with distance. Works beautiful to provide just enough boost to make up for the VR loss of resolution, and with no consequent loss of immersion. Only thing is that this won't help you in MP at all: in servers that don't allow labels, you cannot use it; and in servers that do allow labels (almost none with modern jets), you are better off using the big scream-in-your-face labels because that's what everyone else uses. Still, you *could* use it as practice in anticipation of better VR resolution in the future or until ED provides VR enhancements?

 

 

 

 

Got a link for the Vampire MOD?

 

 

 

I can spot from huge distances with the caveat that the planes are above me and with the backdrop of nice blue sky behind them. Ironically it's as they get closer that I begin to lose them! Only when they are below me, and contrasted against the land, do I really start to struggle...

[Bearfoot]

Got a link for the Vampire MOD?

 

 

 

I can spot from huge distances with the caveat that the planes are above me and with the backdrop of nice blue sky behind them. Ironically it's as they get closer that I begin to lose them! Only when they are below me, and contrasted against the land, do I really start to struggle...

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3163055&postcount=12

 

IIRC, the way these are set up they disappear when close, too. So there is a definitely an "uncanny valley" region, when the labels go off because they are too close yet the object model itself is too small for visibility. You may need to tweak the ranges in the file to suit your conditions to get rid of the uncanny valley.

[Wolf8312]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3163055&postcount=12

 

IIRC, the way these are set up they disappear when close, too. So there is a definitely an "uncanny valley" region, when the labels go off because they are too close yet the object model itself is too small for visibility. You may need to tweak the ranges in the file to suit your conditions to get rid of the uncanny valley.

 

 

So how do I enable the mod in game?

 

 

I seem to have a problem were all labels and FPS counters are not working in game when I press them. Should this MOD just work by default?

[Bearfoot]

So how do I enable the mod in game?

 

 

I seem to have a problem were all labels and FPS counters are not working in game when I press them. Should this MOD just work by default?

 

Place file in "C:\Users\YOURUserName\Saved Games\DCS\Config\View"

[Wolf8312]

Place file in "C:\Users\YOURUserName\Saved Games\DCS\Config\View"

 

 

 

 

Oh I was using OVGME but not that directory route. Hopefully as I use terrain mod already I can use 2 seperate profiles. Thanks for your help.

[Wolf8312]

Place file in "C:\Users\YOURUserName\Saved Games\DCS\Config\View"

 

 

Are you sure thats right, as I dont seem to have that View file in my saved games\Config\ file. I suppose I could try making one.

 

 

Edit- I found it but mine was in D:\ DCSworldopenbeta\config\view

 

 

I assume it should work just as well!

[Bearfoot]

Are you sure thats right, as I dont seem to have that View file in my saved games\Config\ file. I suppose I could try making one.

 

 

Edit- I found it but mine was in D:\ DCSworldopenbeta\config\view

 

 

I assume it should work just as well!

 

Yes, create a directory if it does not exist.

 

Putting it in the game directory might work, but is not recommended. For one thing, it will get blown away by a repair operation, and possibly by an update as well. Putting mods like this (and liveries etc.) in your own "Saved Games" is the way to go in 2018!

[M1Combat]

I'm with Falcon 120 on this one... I can spot targets just fine in VR when they're above me. As I recall about 20Nm at least. Maybe more. It's harder when they're below but not impossible by any means. At that range for sure it's not happening but at least out to say maybe 10nm? At the merge it can be hard to find them if they make a smart move but once I have them it's all about not EVER taking your eyes off them unless you know they aren't going to surprise you... Just like with a monitor and TIR really...

Edited June 27, 2018 by M1Combat

[M1Combat]

Also... And I've posted this before...

 

 

120's findings are correct. 1.2-3PD in game (would be like 1.6 in the Steam VR setting), 0MSAA.

 

 

It's also VERY important to have the fresnel lenses as close to your eyes as possible. This means buying one of the face gaskets on amazon that's as thin as you can stand and adjust the lenses as close to your eyes as possible.

[Wolf8312]

Yes, create a directory if it does not exist.

 

Putting it in the game directory might work, but is not recommended. For one thing, it will get blown away by a repair operation, and possibly by an update as well. Putting mods like this (and liveries etc.) in your own "Saved Games" is the way to go in 2018!

 

 

I cant get the mod to work for some reason no matter what file I put it in. Not sure its the mods fault either as in game I cant get labels or FPS counters to work in VR any more. Any ideas what may be wrong mate?