PointCTRL - Finger Mounted VR Controller

[MilesD]

Got my shipping notification last night & very excited my PointCRTL is shipping out here today. I got to thinking about my VR setup & the use of these. I have a Pimax 5K+ & the old Valve Base station (1.0). One issue I have with the 'old' base station is that once its on it blocks other IR devices from working. I have a Logitech Harmony Hub in my gaming area & it does not work when the base station is in operation.

 

So it got me to thinking........does PointCRTL work off of IR & will the base station interfere with its operation? Is anyone currently using the old Valve base station & using PointCRTL successfully? I've been thinking of upgrading to a 2.0 base station as its doesnt interfere with IR devices like the 1.0 so now may be as good of a time as any to get me off the fence of doing so.

 

My apologies if this has already been answered. 162 pages is a lot of content to read through. :book:

 

I did spend a lot of time on the filtering like Deano said. I originally thought it was going to be a showstopper.

 

The filtering algorithm is 100% effective except when you are pointing directly at the base station. If the FCU is directly in line with a base station, the filter can't separate the pulsing IR light from the FCU's IR LED. The result is a jittery cursor when you are pointing and looking directly at the base station.

 

Both the original, and the 2.0 base stations are susceptible, however the 2.0 with the laser encoded position data, does not have that large IR LED array that increases the no go area.

 

Re-positioning the base stations to avoid the accidental alignment of all three components when operating switches may be required. The greater the distance between the base station and the PointCTRL sensor also helps. The greater distance makes the base stations IR footprint smaller reducing the interference area.

 

Any base station users with feedback would be welcome.

 

As usual, Its a long winded answer. I guess its my old teaching style as an Instructor. I always wanting individuals to get the concepts over just remembering a fact or procedure, which are more perishable than conceptual understanding.

 

Great question pgh2at, I hope that helps, Thanks

 

Miles

[schurem]

Hi Miles, I saw you are sending out units to people that are way later on the list than me, is there some step in the process I have missed? I'd still love to someday receive one. Wouldn't mind getting to the back of the line if necessary.

 

Cheers

[pgh2atl]

I did spend a lot of time on the filtering like Deano said. I originally thought it was going to be a showstopper.

 

The filtering algorithm is 100% effective except when you are pointing directly at the base station. If the FCU is directly in line with a base station, the filter can't separate the pulsing IR light from the FCU's IR LED. The result is a jittery cursor when you are pointing and looking directly at the base station.

 

Both the original, and the 2.0 base stations are susceptible, however the 2.0 with the laser encoded position data, does not have that large IR LED array that increases the no go area.

 

Re-positioning the base stations to avoid the accidental alignment of all three components when operating switches may be required. The greater the distance between the base station and the PointCTRL sensor also helps. The greater distance makes the base stations IR footprint smaller reducing the interference area.

 

Any base station users with feedback would be welcome.

 

As usual, Its a long winded answer. I guess its my old teaching style as an Instructor. I always wanting individuals to get the concepts over just remembering a fact or procedure, which are more perishable than conceptual understanding.

 

Great question pgh2at, I hope that helps, Thanks

 

Miles

 

Thanks Miles! I definitely helps having the explanation/instructions about PointCTRL & the base stations. Mine sits above me at an angle & about 6 ft away so it doesn't sound like I'll have any issues per above.

[A2597]

Hi Miles, I saw you are sending out units to people that are way later on the list than me, is there some step in the process I have missed? I'd still love to someday receive one. Wouldn't mind getting to the back of the line if necessary.

 

Cheers

 

 

Yep, just send an email as per the first post:

 

 

How to Order

Please follow these steps:

1) PM FireCat or ask in the open forum to put you on his waiting list.

2) Watch for your number in the "Now Serving" section on this page or in my sig.

3) When your group is called PM me here with your email address so Carol can confirm your email with your DCS screen name.

4) Send an email to orders@pointctrl.com from the same email address with the following format and information.

 

Subjuct line: Order-(your DCS Screen Name)

Country being shipped to:

V/R Headset mount required:

Spare Parts:

 

You will receive an invoice with the items you listed, Please confirm items, if something is wrong just send an email to orders@pointctrl.com

 

Order Processing Cycle

1) Thursday (2000 Zulu, +-5 hours) - Announce the Now Serving numbers

2) Tuesday (2000 Zulu, +-5 hours) - Send out all invoices for received emailed orders.

3) Thursday (1700 Zulu +-5 hours ) - Print postage for payments received. Prepare and box PointCTRL Kits, followed by step 1 for next weeks orders

4) Friday (1300 Zulu +- 4 hours) - Deliver orders to U.S. Post Office

 

If you missed your number just follow the above procedure and your order will be processed immediately following the current groups.

[schurem]

Yep, just send an email as per the first post:

 

Cool beans, thanks.

[Harlikwin]

Number 125 is coming up! Too bad my reverb just took a dump.

[MilesD]

Shipping Delay

Sorry guys, Friday and Saturdays shipments got delayed to yesterday, today and maybe a few tomorrow for personal reasons.

 

Thanks for understanding,

 

Miles

[jameslockridge]

Hi Miles I'm still quite a few away but I wanted to check that PointCtrl works with the HP Reverb.

[Drac]

+1

[Wmacky]

Please add me to the wait list

[AKA_Clutter]

Hi Miles I'm still quite a few away but I wanted to check that PointCtrl works with the HP Reverb.

 

I am 96.5% sure that I saw a post that he has a reverb mount. Besides that mount it should work just fine. The reverb has inside out tracking like the Rift S which is what Miles has.

 

 

EDIT: The post below indicates (stress INDICATES) that it should work with the reverb.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3982946&postcount=1410

Edited August 21, 2019 by AKA_Clutter

[MilesD]

Hi Miles I'm still quite a few away but I wanted to check that PointCtrl works with the HP Reverb.

 

I know I shipped a few Reverb Mounts, I never herd of any issues. Pimax Field of view is wider than Point CTRLs 113 degree horizontal FOV so you are limited to clicking in that area, but the reverb should be good.

 

Reveb PointCTRL users out there...

[MilesD]

Shipping Status,

All of last weeks orders are finally out and tracking is up. Sorry for the delay, its been one heck of week.

 

This weeks invoices will go out on Thursday.

 

I have a shipment of parts delayed, so there is a 1 week delay in announcing the next "Now Serving" group from FireCats list. I am going to take this time to automate a few more task to speed things up.

 

Thanks you everyone for your patience and support,

 

Miles

Edited August 21, 2019 by MilesD

[VF31_Subsonic]

I am 96.5% sure that I saw a post that he has a reverb mount. Besides that mount it should work just fine. The reverb has inside out tracking like the Rift S which is what Miles has.

 

 

EDIT: The post below indicates (stress INDICATES) that it should work with the reverb.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3982946&postcount=1410

 

 

 

 

Works perfectly with the Reverb. Been using mine for about a week.

Just as when I went from TrackIr to VR....moving to VR with the Pointctrl...I don't know how we did this before. Truly and honestly a game changer and THE way to flight sim in VR. Add in a jetseat and immersion is COMPLETE...short of a full motion setup.

[Salsam]

Works perfectly with the Reverb. Been using mine for about a week.

Just as when I went from TrackIr to VR....moving to VR with the Pointctrl...I don't know how we did this before. Truly and honestly a game changer and THE way to flight sim in VR. Add in a jetseat and immersion is COMPLETE...short of a full motion setup.

Yeah, VR+Jetseat+PointCtrl+G-Seat = dream setup...

Only missing the last piece "Bergison G-seat"

 

Pretty sure PointCtrl will make on to my top 5 list of "most bang for the bucks" stuff, along with TIR, Jetseat and TMWH slew mod.

 

A part of NOSIG

[Deano87]

Hey Everybody,

 

I've been using PointCTRL for a couple of weeks as well, honestly it's why you haven't seen me posting much in this thread, too busy having a blast flying.:D

 

I'm going to be doing a proper write up about my experience with PointCTRL over this weekend but I thought I'd post this little tip here for the benefit of anybody who it might help.

 

Like some other people here, I noticed that under certain conditions the cursor would bounce around in the rough area of where I was pointing. It was still fine to use UFC buttons or hitting MFD buttons, but it just felt slightly disconnected from my finger if that makes any sense. I found that if you point the LED directly at the HMS this bouncing would go away and the overall precision would get much better. This however didn't feel very natural as even when pressing UFC buttons in front of me, my hand is naturally at an angle to my head. As can be seen in the "reenactment" below.

 

 

Due to the ergonomics of how you interact with the instrument panel 90% of the time the FCUs wont be pointing directly at the HMS. If we take the right hand FCU for example, then most of the time using PointCTRL the HMS will be seeing the top and the left hand side of the FCU, as can be seen in the picture above.

 

This got me thinking and I decided to talk to Miles about the possibility of modifying the FCUs to change the angle of the LED somewhat. He informed me that it shouldn't be a problem to tweak the LED to a new angle using a pair of needle nose pliers. So I carefully adjusted my LEDs to point inwards and up on both of my FCUs, so thats pointing left for right hand FCU and the opposite for the other side. Adjustment was made without disassembling the FCU in any way, I just got some needle nose pliers and got hold of the LED lens and gently bent it in the direction I wanted to go.

 

 

Above is what I ended up with, I didn't want to go any further as it felt as though I was putting a bit too much force into the LED, but even this small amount of offset made quite an improvement to the tracking precision. Miles suggested I post this here for everybody to see but obviously I suggest you're very careful when making any adjustments to the LED position.

 

Thanks again to Miles for coming up with (and more importantly seeing through to production) a fantastic peripheral for VR Flight simming that I honestly hate flying without now.

 

Cheers!

 

 

P.S - The PointCTRL Discord channel is going well, if you're following this thread and want to talk to people who use PointCTRL before deciding to jump on the list, or are having any issues with your PointCTRL then please come on over! - Invite Link is = https://discord.gg/jH5FktJ , Make some noise here if that stops working.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Deano87

[AKA_Clutter]

@deno87 GREAT info. I will have to test as well. :-)

[aaron886]

Even more interesting because I do not see how that would increase the apparent precision. The angular displacement (which is what is actually tracked) of the LED with respect to the fingertip is not changed. The LED is still positioned roughly coincident with the index finger knuckle, rather than the index finger tip. Right?

[59thCasper]

Shipping Status,

All of last weeks orders are finally out and tracking is up. Sorry for the delay, its been one heck of week.

 

This weeks invoices will go out on Thursday.

 

I have a shipment of parts delayed, so there is a 1 week delay in announcing the next "Now Serving" group from FireCats list. I am going to take this time to automate a few more task to speed things up.

 

Thanks you everyone for your patience and support,

 

Miles

 

Hey miles didn’t receive my invoice yesterday buddy . Bet you are overrun!

[Deano87]

Even more interesting because I do not see how that would increase the apparent precision. The angular displacement (which is what is actually tracked) of the LED with respect to the fingertip is not changed. The LED is still positioned roughly coincident with the index finger knuckle, rather than the index finger tip. Right?

 

You’re providing the sensor in the HMS a significantly hotter signal by pointing the LED as close to exactly towards it as possible. The brighter the light the HMS can see, the easier time it has of tracking it, and the more precise and less jumpy the resulting cursor movement is.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Deano87

[VF31_Subsonic]

Yeah, VR+Jetseat+PointCtrl+G-Seat = dream setup...

Only missing the last piece "Bergison G-seat"

 

Pretty sure PointCtrl will make on to my top 5 list of "most bang for the bucks" stuff, along with TIR, Jetseat and TMWH slew mod.

 

A part of NOSIG

 

 

Yes that G-seat concept is also something kicking around in my head. I am pretty sure I can build the mechanics of it, just the software piece is where I would fall....for now the jet seat will have to do. plus i would have to rebuild a cockpit i just finished and no time for all of that.

[MilesD]

@Deano, Great informative and accurate write up Deano, and thanks for picking up my slack. I think this will help everyone out. Its a simple and effective improvement.

 

The key to Deano's mod is his statement about "how you interact with the instrument panel 90% of the time " Everyone holds the FCU a little different, and using "Deano's Mod", which its now officially called:smilewink: can significantly improve the cursor resolution.

 

Even more interesting because I do not see how that would increase the apparent precision. The angular displacement (which is what is actually tracked) of the LED with respect to the fingertip is not changed. The LED is still positioned roughly coincident with the index finger knuckle, rather than the index finger tip. Right?

 

Thats a good point aaron886, and your right, it will produce a slight lateral offset from your finger tip, but nothing that perceptible.

 

What "Deano's Mod" ( I just like saying that ) is doing, is presenting the largest diameter blob of IR light for the sensor to track. Essentially it illuminates more pixels on the HMS.

 

When more pixels are illuminated, the firmware uses interpolation to increase cursor precision. I have been working on a firmware solution, as well as a hardware drop in diffuser to illuminate more pixels.

 

The IRLED is a sturdy thru hole component with long leads that is easy to adjust.

 

Here a few pics

 

Thanks Deano,

 

Miles

Edited August 23, 2019 by MilesD

[MilesD]

Hey miles didn’t receive my invoice yesterday buddy . Bet you are overrun!

 

Last week was a tough one, we got a little behind, Carol should be sending out the invoices today,

 

Thanks,

 

Miles

[crazysundog]

My PointCTRL is only a day or two away...

Can hardly contain my excitement!

[AspenGrey]

I'm in! Please add me to the list. This is like my dream VR control.