New Black Shark Movie "Furious Angels"

[Sundowner.pl]

Actually they are mounted, for training purposes mostly - because let's face it, where today they need them ? Afghanistan ? Iraq? There is no air threat, so why waste one pylon mount for something that won't be used. Yet on most exercises they fly with them - because those exercises usually simulate an air threat in the area. And if those machines will go tomorrow into fight without total air dominance on their side, they will fly with ATAS block I. One more thing, if you say that they do not use them... why there was recently an order signed to modify ATAS systems to block II standards ?

 

Fight helicopter vs jet fighter is a nasty one I have to admit, but helo drivers have some tricks in their sleeves for those situations - other than Sidewinders and ATAS.

 

BTW, nice video of ATAS live fire test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAc-xi6knqw

[SuperVasia]

Thanks all for your reviews. It very helps .

Unfortunately my English not very much good it is therefore necessary to be not very much multiword.

With the best wishes.

[D-Scythe]

I think I wasn't very clear. No other helicopter /equips/ air to air missiles - that means, even though they -are- available, they're never mounted on those aircraft.

 

Well, it can be argued that there hasn't been a war where helicopters capable of carrying AAMs (like the U.S. and Russia) had to contend with any air-to-air threat at all.

 

And yes, you're right. ;) So, if you're facing fighters, the best thing to do is hide ... as I said, AI fighters might be easy enough to deal with because the AI has no brains. But fly against a player with half a clue, you may well never see him, or you might only see him for a moment and then he'll be out of your engagement capability!

 

Just for the sake of being argumentative, I'd imagine AAMs would be useful against other helicopters. Certainly, in the only helicopter A-A battles in history (between Iranian AH-1s and Iraqi Mi-24s), having Igla or Stinger equipped would be an overwhelming advantage.

 

Moreover, while against fighters it's best to hide, I'd think a Ka-50 would be able to effectively defend itself against an A-10 if it had to. IIRC, an Iraqi Mi-24 even managed to shoot down an Iranian F-4 Phantom with rockets during the Iran-Iraq war.

[GGTharos]

The Ka-50 could not effectively defend itself against an A-10, unless that A-10 was flying pretty low. In fact you'd have trouble finding that A-10 in the first place ... ask Mustang ;)

[bSr.LCsta]

Great movie!

[D-Scythe]

The Ka-50 could not effectively defend itself against an A-10, unless that A-10 was flying pretty low. In fact you'd have trouble finding that A-10 in the first place ... ask Mustang ;)

 

Well, you're obviously right in a fair fight. All I'm saying is the option to carry AAMs may be welcome by the community, and IMO, is not that far from realism. Obviously, we'll never know, but in a tight shooting war where air superiority is not achieved, I think it's highly likely we'll see choppers carrying AAMs.

[sp0nge]

Rob D yeah brah! .. lol

 

cool movie but I don't like that song. Chateau is pretty cool though

[Tranquil]

Russia does not use it's attack helicopters in the deep strike or deliberate attack role (these are the WORST type of missions for rotary wing craft. Seems the US likes to learn these things the hard way), where you may run into marauding apache's, warthog's, Vipers & Harrier's who are themselves tasked with CAS & interdiction type missions. Attack helicopters are a frontal fire support platform primarily and a frontal exploitation platform secondary. They operate very close to the FEBA and usually in very close proximity to the FLOT. When your sides packing the SA-15, SA-18 and SA-19 systems. Hog's, Vipers, Harrier's and apaches are going to be a rare sight at the FEBA...

 

There's basically no chance a A-10 flying low and slow is going to survive the SA-15, SA-18 and SA-19 threat. Let alone the attention of Flankers directed by Foxhounds. Or for that matter the theatre level AD systems such as SA-10, SA-12 SA-20. Thus there is simply no requirement for attack helicopter's to have an air to air capability. Id suspect the USMC equipping their Cobra's with lima's and mikes was a result of the usual interservice politics that plagues the US Armed forces, Marines wanted their share of the AD money and were not prepared to rely on Navy AD asset's. And/er the other so common failing of the US military industrial complex.. Some Maj, Col, Gen was coming up to retirement age and wanted a job with the contractor.

[EvilBivol-1]

The Ka-50 is "meant" to be able to use an A-A missile - in fact the R-73 IIRC. There are even some controls for this in the cockpit. The problem is that it was never realized into the WCS and/or ED has no confirmation/information on such.

[D-Scythe]

Russia does not use it's attack helicopters in the deep strike or deliberate attack role (these are the WORST type of missions for rotary wing craft. Seems the US likes to learn these things the hard way).

 

Right, one deep strike failure in Iraqi Freedom, over an urban environment no less with no support from anything else, basically renders the entire strategy obsolete. I mean, in Desert Storm AH-64s did penetrate enemy air space to blast open a hole in Iraqi's KARI defense system for other strike aircraft to blow through, but nobody remembers that right?

 

where you may run into marauding apache's, warthog's, Vipers & Harrier's who are themselves tasked with CAS & interdiction type missions. Attack helicopters are a frontal fire support platform primarily and a frontal exploitation platform secondary. They operate very close to the FEBA and usually in very close proximity to the FLOT. When your sides packing the SA-15, SA-18 and SA-19 systems. Hog's, Vipers, Harrier's and apaches are going to be a rare sight at the FEBA...

 

There's basically no chance a A-10 flying low and slow is going to survive the SA-15, SA-18 and SA-19 threat. Let alone the attention of Flankers directed by Foxhounds. Or for that matter the theatre level AD systems such as SA-10, SA-12 SA-20. Thus there is simply no requirement for attack helicopter's to have an air to air capability. Id suspect the USMC equipping their Cobra's with lima's and mikes was a result of the usual interservice politics that plagues the US Armed forces, Marines wanted their share of the AD money and were not prepared to rely on Navy AD asset's. And/er the other so common failing of the US military industrial complex.. Some Maj, Col, Gen was coming up to retirement age and wanted a job with the contractor.

 

Okay, sure, you're absolutely right. But, the point is, just because it's gonna be rare to encounter another aircraft to shoot at over the FLOT, doesn't mean that there never will be, and having more options is always better.

 

Ideally, strike aircraft should never engage enemy fighters in air combat either. F-15Cs wouldn't dogfight with enemy MiGs without a significant advantage. Su-33s won't be shooting Kh-41s at enemy ships. Su-25Ts won't be performing SEAD/DEAD. But we do it all in Lock On anyway.

[Tranquil]

I mean, in Desert Storm AH-64s did penetrate enemy air space to blast open a hole in Iraqi's KARI defense system for other strike aircraft to blow through, but nobody remembers that right?

 

 

 

Okay, sure, you're absolutely right. But, the point is, just because it's gonna be rare to encounter another aircraft to shoot at over the FLOT, doesn't mean that there never will be, and having more options is always better.

 

Ideally, strike aircraft should never engage enemy fighters in air combat either. F-15Cs wouldn't dogfight with enemy MiGs without a significant advantage. Su-33s won't be shooting Kh-41s at enemy ships. Su-25Ts won't be performing SEAD/DEAD. But we do it all in Lock On anyway.

 

 

With the degree of strategic surprise in which the operations was conducted. 10 Sopwith camel's with satchel chargers, led by a Pavelow would have been adequate.

Yes I agree having options is indeed a good thing, but it makes far more sense to give the guys on the ground a few more Igla's. An AD gunner hiding in a hole is 100x more survivable and flexible than a rotary wing craft.

 

 

The Ka-52 is a different beast all together, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were to receive DEAD & A2A capabilities.

 

 

As for Lomac/BS im all for the KA-50 having r-73's! In this case, realism needs to take a backseat to gameplay :)

[D-Scythe]

Yes I agree having options is indeed a good thing, but it makes far more sense to give the guys on the ground a few more Igla's. An AD gunner hiding in a hole is 100x more survivable and flexible than a rotary wing craft.

 

An AD gunner would certainly be more survivable than a helicopter if we're talking about SAM threats, but I'm pretty sure the helicopter is hundreds of times more survivable when talking about assault rifles, machine guns....anything else really ;)

 

But yes, I guess we both agree that although real attack helicopters won't be shooting AAMs at each other, the fact that they can shoot AAMs at each other would be something that many gamers would like to exploit in the LOBS world.

[Piffer]

The air-to-air fight never is good for the helos. The fixed wing aircraft are, by definition, best for this role.

 

"...analysts believe there were 174 air-to-air engagements [during the I Gulf War, my remark] involving helicopters - 118 were against fixed-wing aircraft and 56 were helicopter-versus-helicopter duels. A total of 133 helicopters fell victim to faster and better-armed fighter aircraft..."

- Tom Cooper

 

Two articles about this subject:

- My blog: http://vootatico.com/?p=62

- ACIG forum: http://www.s188567700.online.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106

[D-Scythe]

"...analysts believe there were 174 air-to-air engagements [during the I Gulf War, my remark] involving helicopters - 118 were against fixed-wing aircraft and 56 were helicopter-versus-helicopter duels. A total of 133 helicopters fell victim to faster and better-armed fighter aircraft..."

 

During the first Gulf war? As in Desert Storm?

[Hellcat61]

Well, aside from the "realistic" aspects of this video, I thought it was quite cool and it has re-sparked my interest in BS. Thanks for the vid guys!

[Piffer]

During the first Gulf war? As in Desert Storm?

 

Yep. According the text, it's a quote from Scott Barnes and Lon Nordeen in Military Technology mag, in 1991. I didn't find this article.

[D-Scythe]

Yep. According the text, it's a quote from Scott Barnes and Lon Nordeen in Military Technology mag, in 1991. I didn't find this article.

 

That's....impossible. There weren't even 50 air-to-air kills in total during the entire duration of Desert Storm. Furthermore, the Iraqis didn't even fly their Hinds during the war - so I'm also skeptical that there were 56 air-to-air duels between Coalition and Iraqi helicopters.

[Taipan]

Great WORK!!

[Sundowner.pl]

That's....impossible. There weren't even 50 air-to-air kills in total during the entire duration of Desert Storm. Furthermore, the Iraqis didn't even fly their Hinds during the war - so I'm also skeptical that there were 56 air-to-air duels between Coalition and Iraqi helicopters.

Yup, that data is not about Desert Storm, its about Iran-Iraq war thru the 80's.

[TheMoose]

Awesome movie :thumbup:

 

Thanks EvilBivol-1 for pointing me in the right direction:D

PS: Is there a issue with the search engine? Might be my bad? Anyhow thanks

[PythonOne]

yea its an awesome movie, its a shame the idiots over at frugals can't even show any respect for this artwork.

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=121317

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=121139

[Cooper1987]

IIRC, an Iraqi Mi-24 even managed to shoot down an Iranian F-4 Phantom with rockets during the Iran-Iraq war.

 

It was an assault modification of a Mi-8 :) If you are interested, I can find some more information about this case.

[rogue_blade]

It was an assault modification of a Mi-8 :) If you are interested, I can find some more information about this case.

 

PLZ DO

[Kuky]

Over there at frugalsworld some nuts even say things like:

 

"I find the graphics shitty and unrealistic - almost cartoonish"

 

If they think Falcon4 with ANY kind of mod ir addon has better graphics compared even with basic LockOn (let alone all the super detailed models that'll come in BS) they are seriosly nuts that can't admit when their favourite sim has been left in dust :smartass:

 

Thank god I don't go to these forums for many years now...

[SuperKungFu]

yea its an awesome movie, its a shame the idiots over at frugals can't even show any respect for this artwork.

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/s...d.php?t=121317

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/s...d.php?t=121139

 

yea some of the attitude around frugals needs to be improved in regards to lock on. I'm there from time to time trying to push back the anger level, but they just gain up on me haha. Anyway, the falcon fanboys has always acted like that, they are even on youtube, check out the comments under this video of an F-16 cockpit