F-15C v3.0??

[mytai01]

All of the aircraft are based on publically available information. Nobody is handing ED classified system information and radar capabilities in game are no different. Public information and good guess work is all that you'll ever get!

[SonofEil]

Eagle drivers (who stick with the plane) are a niche thing in this flight sim community as most people wants multi-role, not just air superiority.

 

Tasking isn’t the issue with me. It’s 20-friggin-19, I won’t fly anything that doesn’t have an interactive cockpit. Shit, that’s been a rule of mine since like 2005. It’s absurd that any of ED’s currently sold aircraft are hotkey only.

 

I hope once they are done with this they will bring the F-15C to an equal level :) The Cat and the Bug are cool' date=' but an Eagle.. now that's something! :D[/quote']

 

Do you know how insane the Cat v. Eagle wars will be if a C ever gets upgraded?!?! The eternal questions will finally be answered!! (Virtually, of course.)

 

All of the aircraft are based on publically available information. Nobody is handing ED classified system information and radar capabilities in game are no different. Public information and good guess work is all that you'll ever get!

 

Oh, ok. Thank you. No one here was aware of that.:doh:

[AeriaGloria]

Boeing gave ED the Betty sound files. I’m sure they got other stuff

[draconus]

Eagle drivers (who stick with the plane) are a niche thing in this flight sim community as most people wants multi-role, not just air superiority.

This confirms your words:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=226276

but only on the forums (not typical users). In MP F-15C is still pretty popular and we have no idea how it is on the SP side with users not logging here.

[AMRAAM_Missiles]

MP F-15C is popular in the PvP servers AFAIK (due to it being the only thing next to the Hornet that can do Air-Air). But for anything PvE server like Hoggit's GAW, you will quickly realized that the air is condensed of Hornet drivers.

 

I am pretty sure the number of Eagle drivers will dive to a new low when both the Tomcat and the Viper is out. Most people are just flying the Eagle atm not because they love the bird, but only because they don't have other choices (there are people who don't like the Hornet either).

[Horns]

I think a full-fidelity -C might be a good way to showcase the difference between full-fi and FC3 modeling. I’m sure their marketing people will have a way to spin it to encourage people to try both - maybe offer new FC3 Eagle buyers a credit when upgrading to full-fi, and/or offering a refund to people who use the full-fi version less than x number of hours and want to revert to the FC3 version.

 

Personally, I would want an Eagle for similar reasons to the Tomcat, but the two are distinct enough that owning one would not make me hesitate to buy the other. While I look forward to the carrier ops and long range combat the F-14 offers, being able to pilot and fight in an Eagle solo would be incredible. If it were to follow the Viper, imagine the mp 4 v 4: 2 x F-15 + 2 x F-16 vs 2 x F-14 + 2 x F/A-18...

[Snappy]

MP F-15C is popular in the PvP servers AFAIK (due to it being the only thing next to the Hornet that can do Air-Air). But for anything PvE server like Hoggit's GAW, you will quickly realized that the air is condensed of Hornet drivers.

 

I am pretty sure the number of Eagle drivers will dive to a new low when both the Tomcat and the Viper is out. Most people are just flying the Eagle atm not because they love the bird, but only because they don't have other choices (there are people who don't like the Hornet either).

 

Yes , could be, but really that is kind of an empty argument.Or valid only to a limited degree if your definition of air-air is BVR only.

Because the Mig-29 and Su-27 can do air2air just fine too actually if you know how to utilize them effectively.

Admittedly theyˋre not that impressive in the BVR area, but then simply adjust your tactics accordingly.

 

More on topic, yes I would prefer a complete simulation of the F-15 over another boring( only my personal opinion) fbw&multirole aircraft(F-16) which unfortunately pushed back the F-4 even more.

 

But hey its EDˋs trainset and if they ( and the polling userbase) prefer multirole, its their right to lean more into that direction.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Snappy

Edited January 28, 2019 by Snappy

[Horns]

MP F-15C is popular in the PvP servers AFAIK (due to it being the only thing next to the Hornet that can do Air-Air)

 

Yes , could be, but really that is kind of an empty argument.Or valid only to a limited degree if your definition of air-air is BVR only.

Because the Mig-29 and Su-27 can do air2air just fine too actually if you know how to utilize them effectively

 

Don’t sleep on the M2K. She may only carry four missiles with modest range, but in the hands of a capable pilot she can be a WVR beast.

[mytai01]

Tasking isn’t the issue with me. It’s 20-friggin-19, I won’t fly anything that doesn’t have an interactive cockpit. Shit, that’s been a rule of mine since like 2005. It’s absurd that any of ED’s currently sold aircraft are hotkey only.

 

 

 

Do you know how insane the Cat v. Eagle wars will be if a C ever gets upgraded?!?! The eternal questions will finally be answered!! (Virtually, of course.)

 

 

 

Oh, ok. Thank you. No one here was aware of that.:doh:

 

Sometimes I wonder if some people do think that!

[AMRAAM_Missiles]

Yes , could be, but really that is kind of an empty argument.Or valid only to a limited degree if your definition of air-air is BVR only.

Because the Mig-29 and Su-27 can do air2air just fine too actually if you know how to utilize them effectively.

 

I am talking about BLUFOR only in this case. REDFOR are just kind of unfortunate because I don't think RuAF will give any info about avionics for anything that is newer than the Mig-23. When you are REDFOR, you don't have much choice , if at all.

 

Also, when i am talking about Eagle Driver, it is air-to-air only. So naturally you would choose something , REDFOR or BLUFOR, that excels at the mission requirements. If i know I have to punch fast, cover a large area - Eagle is the way to go. But if I expect having to dogfight , scoped down to small area, the Hornet might be a better choice for some people (even though I am never shy away from a knife fight in a phone booth with the Eagle).

[Snappy]

Hi Horns,

 

You are totally right.The Mirage is also not slacking either in the air2air compartment.

I donˋt own it, but I was quite impressed when watching the stream from the Topgun 1v1 tournament, how well it was able to fight the f -18 guns only with success.

Goes to show how much of acm /bfm is actually down to the pilot skill.

 

 

AMRAAM_missiles,

 

 

Ok blue force only , agree the choices are limited, but as horns said, there‘s still the mirage.

Not so sure if there will be a significant move to the Tomcat , once its out.

Once the initial hype wears off I think a lot of people will realize that the F-14 is a lot more pilot-task demanding and less carefree in handling , e.g. adverse yaw&roll ,less HUD information, canopy bow view limitations etc. in the air to air role.

 

 

While I personally find that interesting and attractive, I could see quite a few people finding it too -cumbersome - posthype and returning to the Hornet and Eagle in the long run.

But enough off topic drift, we will see how it goes.

 

 

Kind regards ,

Snappy

[captain_dalan]

MP F-15C is popular in the PvP servers AFAIK (due to it being the only thing next to the Hornet that can do Air-Air).....

 

I am pretty sure the number of Eagle drivers will dive to a new low when both the Tomcat and the Viper is out. Most people are just flying the Eagle atm not because they love the bird, but only because they don't have other choices (there are people who don't like the Hornet either).

 

Not so sure about the Viper, those are probably the Bug drivers, but definitely the Turkey.

 

Don’t sleep on the M2K. She may only carry four missiles with modest range, but in the hands of a capable pilot she can be a WVR beast.

 

The thing about the crowd that drives the 15 right now (and they otherwise wouldn't) is that we want a large, heavy and fast air superiority platform with long legs and great endurance/persistence/presence . The 2k isn't one. At the moment, we don't have a high fidelity module that fits the role. If we are to make an analogy about the impact of the F-14 on the F-15 demographics, just imagine what will happen the the M2K when the Viper hits the shelves. It is true, many will find the F-14 quite a handful, but quite a few won't. Especially the fully modeled modules proponents.

 

Which brings me to:

I just think they know they have no hope of doing anything until F-16/Mi-24/F-4E trifecta is done

 

Which kinda makes me sad. As much as i'm a Tomcat fan, i would pick a fully modeled F-15 (A or C) before a fully modeled F-16 any day of the week. I would love to run those epic F-14/F-15 showdowns from both sides of the fence, and despite the inter service rivalry, i respect the platform.

 

Unfortunately, multiple (non-official) surveys and pools, both here and on the fb groups, have shown the Viper lobby to be quite strong in the DCS community. Either it's the BMS/Falcon crowd or the mud movers, or maybe a combination of the both, but on virtually every vote, the request for a fully modeled Viper, rates quite high, usually at the top, while the F-15's a quite low on the "desirability"scale . Initially, this came as great surprise to me, but then the same thing crept into to the F-14 forums. Imagine the vocal (apparently no so much minority) crowd, that when the plane was announced cried out for the implementation of the A-G from the get go. Personally i could never figure out why would anyone want an F-14 in that role, or at least want it that bad. If i wanted to fly A-G, my first choice would be an F-111, an A-6, maybe a Tornado or an A-7. Especially if i came from the A-10. But an F-15 or an F-14? Eh.....to each their own i guess.

 

So, yeah. If anyone need my vote for a DCS level F-15 (air superiority variant, be it A or C), i'm in.

 

BTW, just out of curiosity. When you people think of a fully modeled plane, do you think of the "swtichlogy" (i.e. a fully interactive cockpit) or the actual system modeling?

[draconus]

BTW, just out of curiosity. When you people think of a fully modeled plane, do you think of the "swtichlogy" (i.e. a fully interactive cockpit) or the actual system modeling?

Both. That's the definition of ASM and HiFi DCS level. PFM and 3D model/animation currently needs more details too, like ground effect and cockpit closing slide...

[Horns]

The thing about the crowd that drives the 15 right now (and they otherwise wouldn't) is that we want a large, heavy and fast air superiority platform with long legs and great endurance/persistence/presence . The 2k isn't one. At the moment, we don't have a high fidelity module that fits the role. If we are to make an analogy about the impact of the F-14 on the F-15 demographics, just imagine what will happen the the M2K when the Viper hits the shelves. It is true, many will find the F-14 quite a handful, but quite a few won't. Especially the fully modeled modules proponents.

 

If you look at my post, I was responding to the suggestion the M2K not being mentioned as an air-to-air fighter, not saying more people want to fly the M2K than would want a Full-Fidelity Eagle. I don't doubt that a lot of people would rather an F-15, in fact I probably would myself. I'd certainly buy the module.

 

I'm sure a bunch of people will move to the F-16 from the Mirage - I'll buy the module too. For someone who wants one airframe for everything the Viper will be better. For those who only want an air-to-air platform the M2K will be better, and that advantage increases at dogfight range.

 

Anyway, I think on-topic you and I agree that it would be great to see a hi-def Eagle, and let's hope it gets to cut in line before some of the other upcoming airframes :thumbup:

[Jetguy06]

Personally i could never figure out why would anyone want an F-14 in that role, or at least want it that bad. If i wanted to fly A-G, my first choice would be an F-111, an A-6, maybe a Tornado or an A-7. Especially if i came from the A-10. But an F-15 or an F-14? Eh.....to each their own i guess.

 

 

I just want to jump in here. I feel (and I'm sure many others do too) that having the A-G roles for the Tomcat would fill its historical mission capability in DCS. The actual Tomcat was actually a very good strike aircraft in Afghanistan and Iraq (possibly Serbia in '99 as well, but I'm not 100% on that).

 

 

 

Personally, I love flying scenarios that are close to reality and mimic what did or would have happened. And the Tomcat being a strike platform is one such scenario. It's certainly not unlikely that it would have been used as a strike platform had a situation evolved with Iran, or if US Naval forces ever had to deploy to the Georgian region.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love an A-6, or A-7, or even an F-111, although I'm a bigger fan of getting the Tornado into DCS before the Aardvark. But until we get those assets, I'll be having a blast flying the Tomcat in the strike role, because it's historical, realistic, and can/did actually happen.

[Kev2go]

Yes, and we want an ASM F-15C.

 

 

 

 

 

On a base level they may seem like the same, but they are not. The F-15C is the superior A2A machine.

 

 

An f15e has all the same a2a capabilities, whilst having more modern cockpit electronics. ( an/apg70 is basically a a a multimode an/apg63 with a/g mapping capabilties ) Unless your comparing to the latest f15c with aesa radar.

 

It's only heavier. But then again f15 is still going to have to fight for its life in a wvr knife fight against lighter or more nimble planes anyways. Its forte is bvr combat.

 

Now whilst f15e is not an f15c the capabilities overlap the point being it has the benefit for allowing for versatility. Being able to also used for precision ground strike.

 

 

 

There were already discussions about it and E is not equal to C in A2A. There are reasons aircraft are used in their primary roles. If I wanted spamramming the Hornet can actually take 10 onboard.

 

Yeah, I will jump to E whenever it's ready but still want the C as far as this is a wishlist.

 

So you forget that f15e would still have longer operation range ( and/or station time) as a larger more powerfull radar to the f18c

Edited January 30, 2019 by Kev2go

[Erich Alfred Hartmann]

To me really the modules of FC3 if it is updated with clickable cabins I would not mind paying for them 60 euros, in fact for me coming from other simulators the clickable booth gives more imersion and is more comfortable (it is my point of view) to me I like much more a cabin with click that without click

[HiJack]

Clean and single seat F-15C fully clickable please ED! :)

[draconus]

An f15e has all the same a2a capabilities, whilst having more modern cockpit electronics. ( an/apg70 is basically a a a multimode an/apg63 with a/g mapping capabilties ) Unless your comparing to the latest f15c with aesa radar.

 

It's only heavier. But then again f15 is still going to have to fight for its life in a wvr knife fight against lighter or more nimble planes anyways. Its forte is bvr combat.

 

Now whilst f15e is not an f15c the capabilities overlap the point being it has the benefit for allowing for versatility. Being able to also used for precision ground strike.

 

So you forget that f15e would still have longer operation range ( and/or station time) as a larger more powerfull radar to the f18c

 

 

This is the discussion I remember:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3545548#post3545548

 

 

"Only heavier" - you say that like these 3700lbs is nothing. Longer legs only with CFTs, pretty useless range wise in current DCS maps (and +2h loiter time is very rare in DCS too), and you can't jettison them when in trouble - so you're havier and more draggy.

[GGTharos]

An f15e has all the same a2a capabilities, whilst having more modern cockpit electronics. ( an/apg70 is basically a a a multimode an/apg63 with a/g mapping capabilties ) Unless your comparing to the latest f15c with aesa radar.

 

Nope. Because:

 

It's only heavier. But then again f15 is still going to have to fight for its life in a wvr knife fight against lighter or more nimble planes anyways. Its forte is bvr combat.

 

It will never fight like an F-15C in the air to air arena and it will not be the same in BFM - the 15E is much draggier, not just much heavier. It's like having 2.5-3 bags packed onboard. Against low capability threats, ok, they'll never know the difference - but don't tell me they are interchangeable.

 

This completely changes the entire BVR and BFM dynamic to the 15Es disadvantage.

[RaceFuel85]

Now an F-15E without it's CFT's is a different story..at that point it's just a slightly heavier F-15D with more powerful engines (if we're talking the 229 variety)

[GGTharos]

Who flies F-15Es without CFTs? :)

 

Now an F-15E without it's CFT's is a different story..at that point it's just a slightly heavier F-15D with more powerful engines (if we're talking the 229 variety)

[Kev2go]

Now an F-15E without it's CFT's is a different story..at that point it's just a slightly heavier F-15D with more powerful engines (if we're talking the 229 variety)

 

Exactly people forget the e had uprated engines..

 

 

 

Who flies F-15Es without CFTs? :)

 

We can fly the f15e ( or any aircraft) how we please.

 

Its a multirole aircraft at the end of the day. And nothing stopping people from flying air superiority with it.

 

You can promote "single role" aircraft all you want. But you get more moneys worth and more to do with versatile a/c, the F15E will probably have more appeal.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

Nope. Because:

 

 

 

It will never fight like an F-15C in the air to air arena and it will not be the same in BFM - the 15E is much draggier, not just much heavier. It's like having 2.5-3 bags packed onboard. Against low capability threats, ok, they'll never know the difference - but don't tell me they are interchangeable.

 

This completely changes the entire BVR and BFM dynamic to the 15Es disadvantage.

 

 

Nope becuase, That wasnt the point. Point was it still has all the air to air capabilties in terms of core sensors and weapons. Whilst still having precision strike capability with a more modern digital cockpit.

 

 

 

Yea an f16c is not as good a dogfight as the f16a. are they overall inferior? I think not. But sure anyone who downplays or is arrogant enough to believe the F15E will be a pushover in A2A will be in for a nasty surprise, just like those who would quickly disregarded Hornet as nothing but a dog because it cant fly as fast or have quite as good T/W ratio as their fan favorite block 50 viper.

 

 

Koreans employ f15k for both a2a and ag roles.

 

 

 

This is the discussion I remember:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3545548#post3545548

 

 

"Only heavier" - you say that like these 3700lbs is nothing. Longer legs only with CFTs, pretty useless range wise in current DCS maps (and +2h loiter time is very rare in DCS too), and you can't jettison them when in trouble - so you're havier and more draggy.

 

 

Yes and it doesn't change the fact what I said. If you want more light weight plane for wvr then neither eagles are going to suit you. Your probably going to want to fly a hornet or a viper.

 

If your going to exclude aircraft by long loiter time than by the same reasoning a10 should never had been developed. Because who needs all that loiter time? :doh:

 

 

In dcs we can choose our fuel options. No ones forced to have it take all external tanks for super long loiter time. You can easily just fly without cft if you dont want the loiter time. Razbam is doing the f15e, so deal with it. In the meantime until an Official F15C module is made the F-15E will make good enough of stand for Air superiority roles.

 

Besides if Conformal tanks were really so bad in air to air performance the USAF wouldnt accept boing proposing CFT's for the F15SE or F15 2040

Edited January 31, 2019 by Kev2go

[draconus]

Yes and it doesn't change the fact what I said. If you want more light weight plane for wvr then neither eagles are going to suit you. Your probably going to want to fly a hornet or a viper.

 

If your going to exclude aircraft by long loiter time than by the same reasoning a10 should never had been developed. Because who needs all that loiter time? :doh:

 

In dcs we can choose our fuel options. No ones forced to have it take all external tanks for super long loiter time. You can easily just fly without cft if you dont want the loiter time. Razbam is doing the f15e, so deal with it. In the meantime until an Official F15C module is made the F-15E will make good enough of stand for Air superiority roles.

You're the one who pointed out the advantage of more fuel and loiter time so why mad about me disregarding that?

Yes, we know about Razbam's E being WIP. We probably gonna jump into it right away. But this thread is a wish for a hifi C module because we like that, not Strike Eagle. What's your point? That E is better anyway for A2A? It's not. There's a reason for using air superiority aircraft in its role otherwise there would be multiroles only for CAP, CAS, you name it.

Edited January 31, 2019 by draconus