Rolling T/O damage with Hermes and Cavour mod.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I am experiencing rolling T/O damage with Hermes and Cavour mod. So basically what is happening is that once the AV8B reaches ramp , with my nozzles rotated to 60, gear and/or airframe sustain damage. At times catastrophic wing damage causing fire and uncontrollable roll. I know that this is with a mod, and ED and RAZBAM are not responsible, as I have no problem with rolling T/O with Kuz's ramp, and rolling T/O from CVN and LHA are great.

 

On Hermes

A/C is light. Int fuel only, DECM, AIM9 2X.

Position A/C for rolling T/O.

H20 can be OFF. ON if I add 2 X AGM-65G or other stores.

Flaps VSTOL

Master Mode HUD- VSTOL.

Hold brakes, nozzles at 0, throttle to MAX

Release wheel brakes, start roll.

At 70 kts near ramp, NOZZLES to 60.

Damage occurs when A/C is on ramp. Fnt gear bent, outriggers bent, lnd gear will not raise, wing damage, fire in wing fuel cells, fire in engine bay. Worst case, port wing separates.

 

This is not in RTFM, but I am guessing that there is maximum gnd speed when entering ski-jump ramp.

 

Lightweight VSTOL vertical T/O works fine on either Hermes and Cavour.

 

Thank you and cheers.

[al531246]

Take off a bit closer to the ramp. I've noticed this myself but I'm not sure much can be done about it. The collision model for the ramp is extremely smooth as it is, making it smoother would require some quantum engineering!

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Sounds good. Unlike on LHA, Stennis, and Kuz, AV-8B tires sink about 1/4 to 1/4 with deck of MOD carriers, Hermes 1981 and Cavour , in this case. On LHA and Stennis they are nice and flush.

I certainly was starting my roll from aft deck position. I chose that, as YT vids of FAA GR9 and/or SeaHarrier , show the position from where Brits started their roll. In real world anyway. Plus they had tanks X2 which made them even heavier. Which validates, I think, my theory that there is maximum allowable ground speed that the aircraft can be at at ski jump start. BTW, if you have A-4E-C mod, you can land empty (15% fuel and no stores) Skyhawk on Hermes 1981 MOD. You have be at barely 100 knots at ramp, full down flaps, spoilers out, and cut power at ramp, then if your gear is still attached, full stick forward with while braking. It slows down just enough that the ski jump ramp stops it. Totally Hollywood moment, gotta post that trak.

Does not work, thus far on Cavour, it is too short. A-4E-C does catch Kuz's wires, a pleasant surprise. Light and clean A-4E-C does take off from Kuz, using long roll line.

A_4E_Kuz_3wireTrap.trk

Edited January 11, 2019 by DmitriKozlowsky

[Mr_sukebe]

When I used the mod, I used to start from around position 4 on the deck. Any further back, and I at least damaged the nose wheel.

[Mumby]

What happens if you keep the nozzles at 10 until you are just about to fly off the ramp? In this video at 15:52 (maybe you have seen this video before) the HUD shows going up the ramp at 88 knots with 10 degrees of nozzle, only rotating at the last second (or later!)

 

 

Can you recreate that speed/nozzle and see what happens?

 

Just for my own interest mostly, maybe I will get this mod and try myself.

 

Cheers

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Is it just me, or does the RW Illustrious ramp look a bit shallower then the one on the Hermes 1981 MOD?

[al531246]

What happens if you keep the nozzles at 10 until you are just about to fly off the ramp? In this video at 15:52 (maybe you have seen this video before) the HUD shows going up the ramp at 88 knots with 10 degrees of nozzle, only rotating at the last second (or later!)

 

 

Can you recreate that speed/nozzle and see what happens?

Cheers

 

Is it just me, or does the RW Illustrious ramp look a bit shallower then the one on the Hermes 1981 MOD?

 

I have gone to great lengths to recreate the takeoff conditions, the result is the same. Ramp incline is irrelevant, it's the beginning of the slope which causes the nose gear to fail. I think it's an ED / RAZBAM issue, not something a mod can solve. Believe me, I've tried...

[Captain Orso]

If you run the video at 0.25 speed --just the few seconds before the third Harrier launches, not the whole thing :D -- it looks like he doesn't rotate the nozzles at all, which is actually the point of having a ski-jump, so that you don't have to take your thrust off of forward momentum to get into the air.

 

So if the ski-jump on the mod is causing the Harrier to take catastrophic damage, it is really negating its entire purpose.

[Captain Orso]

I have gone to great lengths to recreate the takeoff conditions, the result is the same. Ramp incline is irrelevant, it's the beginning of the slope which causes the nose gear to fail. I think it's an ED / RAZBAM issue, not something a mod can solve. Believe me, I've tried...

 

What if you launch a completely different aircraft from the sky-jump?

[al531246]

What if you launch a completely different aircraft from the sky-jump?

 

I didn't own the F/A-18C nor the Su-33 at the time so I never tested. Now that I own the F/A-18C I might give it a test with Joey's Hermes mod.

[Captain Orso]

Anything, try a P-51, or an A-10, just to get a comparison.

[waistcat]

Hello folks,

Try rotating the nozzles after you have left the ramp and not on it. Accelerate off the deck as normal but resist moving the nozzles until you are completely wheels off. That way you are not forcing the weight of the airframe into the ramp.

 

Waist cat

[joey45]

Will have a look at the ramp and see if I can do something about.

 

if you have A-4E-C mod, you can land empty (15% fuel and no stores) Skyhawk on Hermes 1981 MOD. You have be at barely 100 knots at ramp, full down flaps, spoilers out, and cut power at ramp, then if your gear is still attached, full stick forward with while braking. It slows down just enough that the ski jump ramp stops it. Totally Hollywood moment, gotta post that trak.

 

mmmmm the 60s Hermes might be on the books sooner..... mmmmmm

Edited January 10, 2019 by joey45

[joey45]

Just tried it overloaded and it have no probs.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Cavour MOD, works fine with HarrierII. Rolling takeoff with nozzles fully aft. No VIFFing as when coming off Tarawa. No damage to aircraft. Sadly Cavour mod does not roll and heave as realistically as Kuz and Stennis.

On recovery approach, I tried, following trajectory , as was shown in Illustrious BBC program. From 3/4 nm, aproach ship from its port side, and 3 deg depressed sight line. Stabilize off port aft to port midships. then carefully put in on deck inside of deck foul lines. Trak posted.

AV_8B_CavourQuals.trk

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Will have a look at the ramp and see if I can do something about.

 

 

 

mmmmm the 60s Hermes might be on the books sooner..... mmmmmm

 

 

That would be interesting. 1960's-1970's RN FAA ops. The Golden Age of Royal Navy Fleet Air Air. How do you handle wires? Is there like arrestor cable system C.library or H.file from SDK?

 

Actually I find Royal Navy and Royal Australian Navy CATOBAR carriers amusing. In a respectful way.

Check out Robin William's 'Drinking With A Scottsman ', one of his best. He pokes fun at how Scotts invented golf.

In the sane venue, sort off my take on RN FAA is like this.

 

'All right lads we are going to have carriers with catapults, angled deck, and so we can fly fast jets from it. Then land on 'em'

 

'You mean like American supercarriers with 4 acres of area and 4 wires with a huge landing area. Powered by nuclear reactors'

 

"FKKKKKK NOOOOOOO! We are going to have tiny carriers, size of cruisers! Powered by oil and steam. With narrow landing area, and only three wires. Carriers so small they can fit in ya pocket. Thats what we'll em . Pocket carriers"

 

"Ohh OK, so we will fly small planes from it"

 

"FKKKK NOOOOO! We will fly huge supersonic aircraft. F-4s, Buccaneers. Aircraft so big, they hardly fit on an elevator. Just like Americans."

 

"Oh... OK. So we will have large number of small carriers"

 

"FKKKKKK NOOOOOOO. We will only have a few, and at any one time 1/2 will be in port for repairs."

 

"Oh.. OK. We will fly and land large supersonic jets off carriers , size of cruisers, and land with no margin of safety. But we will train in nice warm calm waters near coast. Like the Americans."

 

"FKKKKK NOOOOOOO. We will train in North Sea, North Atlantic, Jutland, and Irish Sea. With cold weather, high winds, poor visibility, rainy, wet, miserable, and choopy waters. Landing on a small postage stamp "

 

"Oh. OK.. So when American exchange students qualify to land on our carriers, they get a bottle of Highland Single Malt 12 years old"

 

"FKKKKK NOOOOOO! We hide the good stuff, and give'em blended scotch"

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I have another theory regarding AV-8B damage when jumping Hermes. But I need to verify it. Here is the trak for successful jump of Hermes.

AV_8B_HermesQuals.trk

[Harlikwin]

Ok, Just tried this off both the Cav and Hermes, once I figured out that you Limes call England the UK ;)...

 

No issues, Also made quick mission and I can get off the Hermes with 4 IR mavs, 2 sidewiders, guns, and 80% fuel no problem. All nozzles aft...

 

Can AI wingmen take off from the Hermes? Seems like my mission went a bit sideways when my wingman just randomly buggered off?

[Harlikwin]

It seems you can take damage and not be able to retract the gear if you take off with the nws mode engaged (as opposed to anti skid).

[Harlikwin]

Also I do get damage sometimes when doing everything "right" and the gear will either not retract or only partially retract. I.e. Nosewheel or main but not both.