Black Shark 3?

[26-J39]

@Weta - Go ride you're Unicorn! :D

 

 

Some good comments there, and looks like people realize that this thing was never produced and realize what we want is a MODERN version, that would have been produced.

 

 

WOW! Here you are asking for fantasy versions of the KA-50 with KA-52 systems and you have the gaul to call others who are respected members of the community out as unicorns? :huh::doh:

[3WA]

Oh please, 26. We're joking with each other. And I do see his and other people's points like M1 and Sebulba. Most of us are going to play with the Ka-50ED offline, so it's not going to matter to rest of you. Seriously, do you ever see the Ka-50 played with online? I don't play online, but from the video's shown, I've only ever seen it used once. You would get OBLITERATED by the fighters. Besides, if people don't want to see it online, they can just ban it from their servers.

 

 

I want to stay as close to realism as possible as well, but I want to go beyond 1990 era. In a helicopter that was never really built. Even some of the Russians are admitting this fact. So, it's already a fantasy helicopter. I am asking ED to go a little further and try and find out if they can model the GOES-451 ( the FLIR on the Ka-52) and it's corresponding instrument controllers with enough realism as to be within acceptable "realistic" limits.

 

 

There's really no point in debating here. Everything is going on over on the Russian forums, if you want to join us there.

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3966080#post3966080

 

 

 

And for the record, I've been flying sims since the late 80's. Apple IIE for the Win!

Edited June 30, 2019 by 3WA

[REALRAINBOW]

And with what article will ED make concessions to the KA50? Then let's and Viper 2008! No one goes to Compramis with Viper.

[Eldur]

Regardless, the Ka-50ED will only be true if you'd be able to play Tetris on it's ABRIS enroute. I just wish the devs take the chance to put in that most wanted easteregg while they're working on the Shark again.

[3WA]

I prefer Galaga myself. :thumbup:

[Fri13]

Obviously the one we have modelled was actually produced, because there are photos of it on the internet:

 

What we have was a version before the upgrade standard was designed and accepted for the production.

 

What we have now, doesn't exist anymore. It is like a prototype for a F-16A. Not even the F-16A serial production and far from F-16C.

The KA-50 went after ED access to series of testings, upgrade programs etc that finally got green light from government to be put in few units upgrade program. But funding was delayed, and then cancelled. Couple years after that, demand raised and government made order to start serial production of the KA-50 in upgraded standard version that trials and tests had revealed and speed up the KA-52 development.

 

KA-50 received new far more advanced features, capabilities and weaponry than our #25 in DCS had. Things like FLIR, Self-protection suite, new avionics etc. Do we have those? No. Because DCS KA-50 is not the final version. It is not the standard.

 

Question is now, does ED get any information that what the upgraded standard included for the serial production, as the #25 in the current DCS configuration is just after the Chechen war configuration. A war tested unit. From what the pilots feedback was used to perform new changes and test and trial those and refine more upgraded KA-50, like what F-16C became.

 

The photos there are, are from the historical KA-50. One time in the history there was a such version. It is like looking photos from F-16A and compare them to F-16C.

 

What some people now want, is that "F-16C" but problem is that it is classified as it shares systems with KA-52 as it was used to develop the KA-52 but as single seater.

 

If you would have a 500 million dollars and you could buy attack helicopter, I could think that you might could come with a great lawyer for a deal with Kamov so they will produce you few modernized KA-50's. Then you could offer ED access to that (if the deal allows) to model it for DCS.

 

And I could guarantee that it would be nothing like our KA-50 or photos you see commonly in internet. It would be fully modernized version.

[S.E.Bulba]

Google Translate

 

Hey guys, go post on the Russian forums. I think they are currently debating whether certain wires on the REAL Ka-50 were actually green or blue. :lol:…

Your machine translation is not correct. In the Russian forums, not a word was said about the color of the wires and the number of rivets on the real Ka-50.

 

LOL, yeah, I had a real laugh over that last one! I'm guessing there was some real errors in words there. If you use Yandex Translate, it shows that there are usually a couple of different words that you're English could be translated into. I'm sure it's the same for Russian…

There are no real errors in words. You should not try to understand the meaning of Russian sayings, for the reason that machine translation will give you just an incomprehensible set of phrases. In any case, you will not be able to understand them if you have never lived in the countries of the former USSR. Just skip this. :)

 

… It is a bit off-topic - but since you seem knowledgeable I had a question about the Mi-24... I've read that the Mi-24 sometimes carried 10xFAB-100 during the Afghan war. I've always assumed that the two inner hardpoints each carried four bombs using an adapter (i.e. something like the MDB-4 rack used on the Su-25)... it seems the only solution which makes sense... however, I've never been able to find photographs or more information.

 

Have you heard anything?

Yes this is true. It is technically possible for a helicopter to hang the MBD2-67U multiply bomb racks (Russian: МБД2-67У), each of which can carry up to 4 bombs of 100kg caliber.

 

 

However, 10×FAB-100 is too much load on the Mi-24, literally at the limit of its capabilities, so this weapon was used relatively rarely in Afghanistan. In this regard, you are unlikely to find photos of the Mi-24 with 10 bombs.

 

Original in Russian

Hey guys, go post on the Russian forums. I think they are currently debating whether certain wires on the REAL Ka-50 were actually green or blue. :lol:…

Ваш машинный перевод некорректный. На русскоязычных форумах не говорилось ни слова о цвете проводов и количестве заклёпок на реальном Ка-50.

 

LOL, yeah, I had a real laugh over that last one! I'm guessing there was some real errors in words there. If you use Yandex Translate, it shows that there are usually a couple of different words that you're English could be translated into. I'm sure it's the same for Russian…

Там нет никаких реальных ошибок в словах. Не следует пытаться понять смысл русских поговорок, по той причине, что машинный перевод даст Вам всего лишь непонятный набор фраз. Вы в любом случае не сможете их понять, если Вы никогда не жили в странах бывшего СССР. Просто пропускайте это. :)

 

… It is a bit off-topic - but since you seem knowledgeable I had a question about the Mi-24... I've read that the Mi-24 sometimes carried 10xFAB-100 during the Afghan war. I've always assumed that the two inner hardpoints each carried four bombs using an adapter (i.e. something like the MDB-4 rack used on the Su-25)... it seems the only solution which makes sense... however, I've never been able to find photographs or more information.

 

Have you heard anything?

Да, это действительно так. На вертолёт технически возможно подвесить многозамковые балочные держатели MBD2-67U (по-русски: МБД2-67У), каждый из которых может нести до 4 бомб калибром 100 кг.

 

Однако 10×ФАБ-100 – это слишком большая нагрузка на Ми-24, буквально на пределе его возможностей, поэтому данное вооружение применялось сравнительно редко в Афганистане. В связи с этим, Вы вряд ли найдёте фотографии Ми-24 с 10 бомбами.

 

[Weta43]

What we have now, doesn't exist anymore

 

But you're still missing the point even when you post it yourself.

"Doesn't exist anymore" means it did exist, and there's an attempt to simulate it here.

 

What you want NEVER existed

 

See the difference ?

 

Did exist (real)

Never existed (imaginary)

 

As I've said, I'm disappointed that an imaginary version of the Ka-50 will appear in DCS, but that is what it is. I'll stop arguing against it.

 

What I won't stop is pointing out to those that claim otherwise that it is imaginary in a way that the currently modelled version is not, and that has been explicitly rejected by E.D. in the past (which is why the Su-33 lost it's Moskit anti-ship capabilities - because there were only mock up photos of it, and no recorded evidence that the plane could ever launch it).

 

What we're getting with the Ka-50ED is something even less attached to reality, but they have decided to break their own rules.

 

Their game - their call...

 

But let's not bring (to use a phrase of the moment) "Fake News" to the site and pretend there's some historical justification or that Ka-50ED is as 'real' as the version that was originally modelled.

 

Then we can all go back to enjoying 3WA's videos of Laser weapon equipped helicopters....

[26-J39]

Seriously, do you ever see the Ka-50 played with online? I don't play online, but from the video's shown, I've only ever seen it used once. You would get OBLITERATED by the fighters.

 

 

So you dont play online but your convinced the KA-50 is not used online. Makes sense :megalol: :doh:

 

 

 

Yes the KA-50 is used a LOT online, and when flown by a CAPABLE pilot it is a lethal platform.

[3WA]

 

Then we can all go back to enjoying 3WA's videos of Laser weapon equipped helicopters....

 

 

LOL, DUDE! What is up with you and LASERS? I think you have lasers on the brain. YOU are the only one who keeps bringing up LASERS. That video was just me joking with you.

 

 

What is it with the DESPERATION of people like you? If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't think your going to keep everyone else from doing so.

[26-J39]

What is it with the DESPERATION of people like you?

 

 

I'll answer that as simply as i can.

 

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/

 

 

"Digital Combat Simulator World (DCS World) 2.5 is a free-to-play digital battlefield game.

Our dream is to offer the most authentic and realistic simulation of military aircraft, tanks, ground vehicles and ships possible."

[Weta43]

LOL, DUDE! What is up with you and LASERS? I think you have lasers on the brain. YOU are the only one who keeps bringing up LASERS. That video was just me joking with you.

 

 

What is it with the DESPERATION of people like you? If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't think your going to keep everyone else from doing so.

 

I know.

 

You posted a video of a laser equipped helicopter as a joke, & I was just continuing the joke.

 

edit - Fri13 was getting all hot under the collar, I was suggesting that he should - like we were - get less serious about it & watch the video.

 

As long as we're all on the same page - it's an imaginary addition, but ED are going to be fairly sensible in their approach (which means limiting the extras to things that might reasonably have appeared on the Ka-50, not every other - or any other - attack helicopter that was ever made), and do it as it might have been had it existed a the time, and no-one starts asking for out there extras (& yes, in that bag I'd put GOES-451 FLIR , R-73 & RWR) we can all relax and watch the Ka-50TE soar into the skies.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Weta43

[martinistripes]

What is it with the DESPERATION of people like you?

 

DCS is very precious to some of us because where else can we go if we want an "authentic and realistic" combat sim? No where I can think of (unless you want to count a mod of a 1998 game -and even then, it's one specific aircraft). That's why we're quick to defend it being the way it is.

 

On the other hand, if you don't mind a bit of "make belief" and don't really care for the accurate modelling of various systems and flight dynamics, you already have plenty to choose from.

 

The Ka-50 online ( and Mi-8 ) is a lot of fun, especially if you have one or two wingmen.

Edited July 1, 2019 by martinistripes

[3WA]

Sure. ED is precious to all of us. But that doesn't mean you get to tell other people what modules they can and cannot have. Or ED, what they can build. If you don't like it, simply don't buy it. If you don't like it on your server, simply ban it.

 

 

As I've already said, to me, the Ka-50 is a special case. It was never really beyond a prototype. The Ka-52 is the REAL helicopter that it became. I doubt that Russia will ever build a finished Ka-50 beyond the prototype stage.

 

 

ED's probably going to make things I don't like, and go in directions I don't like (i.e. they already have). I simply don't buy what I don't like.

 

 

But yeah, in the end, I DO understand what you guys are saying. And I think a lot of others who want the Ka-50ED do as well. You're arguments do make me think twice, even now. For us, this is a SPECIAL case.

 

 

I really would like FLIR, but I would like it modeled as REALISTICALLY as possible.

Edited July 1, 2019 by 3WA

[Floydii]

I'm with 3WA, a KA-50ED would be great, but as a separate aircraft in the game (likely part of the paid update). That way the mission designer has control over exactly what version we can use.

 

As LLTV and FLIR rendering already exist in game setting the KA50ED to use them would not be a massive programming hurdle and there are plenty of un-used switches that would make further mods to the cockpit unnecessary. I don't expect ED to model a whole new suite of avionics, just the ability to switch to LLTV/FLIR and change polarity.

[Avimimus]

When you say "we", I hope you clarified that means "you", and perhaps a few other dreamers. Hey, if you come back in 10 years perhaps ED will have released DCS Ka-52 Alligator. Then you'll have all the systems you've been wishing for! :thumbup:

 

More like 25 years... the need to have everything follow actual systems in well-documented and high detail means that modern systems simply aren't possible at the level of fidelity some people in this thread are pushing for.

 

 

There are no real errors in words. You should not try to understand the meaning of Russian sayings, for the reason that machine translation will give you just an incomprehensible set of phrases. In any case, you will not be able to understand them if you have never lived in the countries of the former USSR. Just skip this. :)

 

But I like confusing idioms! :D

 

Anyway - Thanks for the info! I'm going to duck out of this thread for a bit... as I'm tired of the trivial arguments. But a great place for compiling information on projects is http://www.secretprojects.co.uk ...so I'd invite you to drop by their from time to time.

[S.E.Bulba]

… Anyway - Thanks for the info! I'm going to duck out of this thread for a bit... as I'm tired of the trivial arguments. But a great place for compiling information on projects is http://www.secretprojects.co.uk ...so I'd invite you to drop by their from time to time.

Thank you! Good luck!

[Dehuman]

Yes the KA-50 is used a LOT online, and when flown by a CAPABLE pilot it is a lethal platform.

 

Indeed, sometimes I feel bad when I wipe out an entire objective by myself in a single sortie.

Being able to receive threat calls from AWACS (so I can hide) would make it nigh invincible.

Most of the time I die after getting cocky and deciding to gun strafe Bradleys.

Obviously MANPADS are a huge threat but these are rare online.

[Eldur]

I prefer Galaga myself. :thumbup:

 

 

Well, as an Amiga 500 owner, I always prefered Blockout over Tetris, since the whole thing in 3D was a lot cooler. But the System page of the ABRIS already looks like a Tetris screen, totally.

 

 

 

 

It would suit the thing perfectly... and you'd just need the 5 buttons. One for start / pause, one for move left and right each, one for turning the thing around and one to let it crash down.

 

 

[M1Combat]

"Most of the time I die after getting cocky and deciding to gun strafe Bradleys."

 

 

Lol :)... Me too :). Way too fun in VR to not try darn near every time :). I'm like "Hmmm... I think all the AA is down... Hope so... HOLD MY BEER!!!"

[TripRodriguez]

Sorry to ask, I don't have time to read the entire thread... what is the last we heard on the Ka-50 update?

 

I have read a lot of the posts here, so I know from you guys that ED have been putting all their effort into the cash cow jets. =( I'm just wondering if there's been any hint of anything since the expected update by the end of 2018 didn't happen.

 

Just so we are clear I'm not complaining, just hoping that there's been some kind of word since.

 

Also, to weigh in on the "updated shark" topic, I actually prefer older technology as I think it's more fun and interesting to use. That being the case, I don't particularly want that glass cockpit version, but I'd certainly support it's being introduced so long as we also get a nice update to the original version.

 

I do agree that we shouldn't be given a Ka-50 variant that doesn't exist, but if there is a glass cockpit version out there and ED can get enough info to do a proper job of it then I think it's a reasonable wish list item.

 

But to be clear, I prefer the older equipment! Let's get the original Ka-50 up to current standards. Everything else is optional.

[3WA]

Well, if you read the Russian forums, and S.E. Bulba's last post here on the English ones, you find out first, that the Shkval was eventually dumped because of "obvious reasons" (i.e. no FLIR, can't lock targets well even in the evening). Then Second, the whole Ka-50 program was scrapped as being obsolete, because the Russians finally admitted that it was impossible for one man to successfully employ a modern combat helicopter at extremely low altitudes (i.e. in Combat). Many prototypes were made, but in the end, the final version was made into the Ka-52. I believe the "glass cockpit" one is the Ka-52Sh, or a prototype one or two editions beyond it. It looks to me a lot like the current cockpit of the Mi-28NE Havok.

 

 

The problem is, the Ka-50 we have is WORLDS behind the current Ka-52, which has Radar, RWR, FLIR, LLTV, President-S, A-A capability, and God knows what else. It was made to take on the modern Apache in combat.

 

 

So far, Chizh, one of the Producers, has signaled the new heli with have President-S to some point (though from reading the Russian forums, they seem to be guessing a lot, and I'm suspecting it will be just the IR detection / jamming module), a third rail to carry A-A missiles, and Igla missiles available.

 

 

My side also wants FLIR and RWR, as they are needed on the modern battlefield, and for Night Attack. But so far Chizh is saying no. Other than that, very little information has been given out. The only thing I have seen Chizh say about giving more, is that he might do so in the Fall.

 

 

 

 

x

Edited July 8, 2019 by 3WA

[FalcoGer]

Last official update was in the news section.

Between 20 paragraphs of FW-109 and F16 you can find those three sentences, and that, along with some pictures is about all the news we got in the last year:

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151478&page=20

 

Our current helicopter focus is on the updated Ka-50 for DCS: World Black Shark and DCS: Mi-24P Hind. Both projects are progressing well.

 

The Ka-50 update will consist of new functions such as Igla air-to-air missiles and missile warning systems with infrared missile jamming systems in addition to a substantial graphics overhaul. While new cockpit functions will be part of a paid upgrade, the entirely new and improved cockpit and external model will be available for free. In addition to a graphics overall and new features, we will also take this opportunity to clean up any remaining bugs in the Ka-50.

As far as I gathered we will get for free:

- New pit

- New model

- Vikhr A/A fragmentation sleeve and A/A + A/A HO logic (?)

- Bug fixes (?)

 

For paid upgrade. Pricing is not yet set:

- President S MWS + active IR jamming

- Igla A/A missiles

- ?

 

What we will not get, despite it being a real thing:

- Night time optics (no FLIR, no LLTV, no ball camera)

- Glass cockpit

- RWR

- 6 Hardpoints

 

- KA-52

Edited July 8, 2019 by FalcoGer

[TripRodriguez]

Excellent, thank you very much for the very thorough answer.

 

I personally prefer the old setup to the glass cockpit so that's a non-issue, and the thing I love best about the Ka-50 is that it was designed for a one person crew so there's no need to use AI or switch seats. That being the case, I don't really care about the Ka-52 being added, though it would be cool to see it done and I'd certainly buy it if it was available. To be honest, I'll continue to buy all the helicopters unless they outpace me which is unlikely I think. I'm most looking forward to the AH-1, but still there's that two person crew thing.

[pepin1234]

where we will carry the Igla missiles?