Chaffs ineffective ?

[diditopgun]

Hi !

 

Yesterday a friend and I did many BVR tests in 1vs1 to test chaffs effectiveness. (Tacview used to check results)

 

We used AIM-120C, Super 530D and R-27ER.

 

We never succeeded to deceive a missile in chaffs.

 

Does something has been change or broken about chaffs ? Did other players noticed this too ?

 

Hard to prove something about chaffs but previously it was easy to see by Tacview missiles going straight to chaffs.

AIM-120 looks like much more effective than before too.

[AeriaGloria]

I always found chaff best when beaming

[Sandman1330]

From my observations, I think DCS treats chaff much like flares - a decoy that the missile goes after instead of the real target. This is why it works while beaming.

 

In reality, I think chaff is best employed when placed between the missile or tracking radar and the aircraft. Chaff is designed to create a large return that the radar beam cannot penetrate, allowing the defending aircraft to manoeuvre clear of the beam and thereby break lock. I don’t think it works this way in DCS, since tracking radars don’t seem to be modeled correctly (with a very narrow beam).

[*Aquila*]

After some testing on the latest OB, it seems that chaff has lost any kind of efficiency. The same engagements H v AI reproduced with and without using chaff show no difference. Beaming works (in the tests below, I didn't use beaming BTW); manoeuvering to leak out the missile's energy works; chaff don't. Here are 4 Tacview archives. Two without chaff, two with chaff. The OpFor is an AI "excellent" Hornet.

Tacview.zip

[diditopgun]

From my observations, I think DCS treats chaff much like flares - a decoy that the missile goes after instead of the real target. This is why it works while beaming.

 

In reality, I think chaff is best employed when placed between the missile or tracking radar and the aircraft. Chaff is designed to create a large return that the radar beam cannot penetrate, allowing the defending aircraft to manoeuvre clear of the beam and thereby break lock. I don’t think it works this way in DCS, since tracking radars don’t seem to be modeled correctly (with a very narrow beam).

 

You're right, after some talking on an other forum about it, yes missiles should not really be affected by chaffs in most situation, but fire control radar (FCR) yes.

 

So actually it's better about missiles (chaffs are not treat like flares), but it doesn't deceive FCR too. Chaffs are fully useless at this time in DCS...

[*Aquila*]

Chaffs are fully useless at this time in DCS...

DCS's electronic warfare is a notorious weak point. Thank God, that will change in two more weeks.

[diditopgun]

Up !

 

No official words if chaffs are broken/modified way of working or not ?

[gekoiq]

I also noticed this. Previously SA-6 would bite on chaff readily and you can visibly watch them arc away once it has been decoyed by chaff. Current beta version the SA-6 will not get decoyed no matter how many chaff are dumped, 30+chaff released in testing and the missile still tracks toward its target.

[GGTharos]

Chaff should be effective in or near the beam. There are other effective chaff applications which DCS does not cover for a bunch of technical reasons. That may improve one day.

 

If you're expecting chaff to be effective outside of the beam, you'll be snacking on explosives.

 

The things that affect chaff effectiveness positively are basically: look down, aspect, number of CMs in seeker FoV.

[GGTharos]

That is absolutely incorrect.

 

You're right, after some talking on an other forum about it, yes missiles should not really be affected by chaffs in most situation

[GGTharos]

Then you're dealing with either some CM WIP (would be nice to know) or a bug which should be reported.

 

I also noticed this. Previously SA-6 would bite on chaff readily and you can visibly watch them arc away once it has been decoyed by chaff. Current beta version the SA-6 will not get decoyed no matter how many chaff are dumped, 30+chaff released in testing and the missile still tracks toward its target.

[Eldur]

What is "the beam" you're talking of?

 

I noticed (against gound units) that chaff are virtually useless unless the shooters radar is on your 3-9-line. So basically, when you notch, but not against the ground (which is hard in case of SAMs), chaffs do work, otherwise not. Which is kinda expectable.

 

Haven't tried in the latest version though. This thread sounds to me like that doesn't work anymore...

[GGTharos]

What is "the beam" you're talking of?

 

 

3-9 line.

 

I noticed (against gound units) that chaff are virtually useless unless the shooters radar is on your 3-9-line.

 

 

Sounds right.

[71st_Mastiff]

I beam the SA-6 and 3 and some other radar sites have no issues losing lock when dumping 1 or 2 chaff's.

[Mule]

Using Tacview I always see the chaff working as advertised.