AIM-54 - super weapon?

[fl0w]

Yep, I knew this would come. Putting this one right next to the "FM is unrealistic!" posts.

[Victory205]

Lol I knew this kind of thread would pop up. Same with 120C and 530D in the past. Its like deja vu all over again.

Well I don't think Phoenix is a super weapon at all. I have seen AI notching it and the Phoenix hit nothing but empty air and that missile was shot inside 30 miles by me. We should sometimes learn from the AI lol. In MP I could see most players become good at dealing with the Phoenix with their own tactics. My score quite low with the Phoenix lately. I blame the Jester lol

 

AI notching it? Who cares?

[Oceandar]

AI notching it? Who cares?

Who cares that you care lol

[CoBlue]

][/b]

I tried dueling in Su-27 vs F-14 with AIM-54... I must admit, I didn't make it once. AIM-54 looks like unavoidable super weapon that can hit targets from 50 miles!

Here's your problem, the AI AIM-54 ain't the same as HT's AIM-54.

[Whiskey11]

A lot of the AI Notching is more luck and the limitations of the DCS Missile Code forcing the Phoenix into a huge 21G dive when it goes "active". It also doesn't hand off radar control nearly as well as the real one did and it is doubtful that ED will let HB accomplish this. The ability of the missile to communicate with the F-14 launching it (or other aircraft painting for it) if the enemy notches it's own internal guidance would make it nearly impossible to do anything except maneuver kill/energy kill the missile with the right F-14 radar layouts. Something like a four ship group operating one at altitude as the launching aircraft and one near the ground to avoid notch filter issues in Pulse radar mode, then handing off between both two flights and the missile's own radar...

 

That said, it's still a VERY potent missile and a GOOD RIO/Pilot combo will make short work of most enemy aircraft with it

[Tiger-II]

Didn't I read somewhere that the missiles were being overhauled in DCS? They're a big weakness IMHO, in that they don't fly anything like accurate profiles, or have the correct seeker head performance.

 

The HB AIM-54 is AFAIK the most accurately modeled missile in DCS (performance and flight profile).

 

The AIM-54 is SAHR, so break-lock with the launch platform before the terminal phase, and the missile is defeated.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Tiger-II

[TLTeo]

The AIM-54 is SAHR

 

 

It's not. If it was the Tomcat wouldn't have its vaunted ability to engage six targets at the same time.

[deadpool]

It's not. If it was the Tomcat wouldn't have its vaunted ability to engage six targets at the same time.

 

Yes.. it is not SAHR, but while the Phoenix isn't a classical FOX-1 that preferentially uses CW illumination of the target, it is still relying immensely on the launch platform sustaining a lock to give it guidance information in flight.

 

So the second part of the post by Tiger-II holds true.

 

The active seeker in the phoenix has a very limited effective range. Break the lock before it's close and sufficiently change where you are from where the missile expects you and you have avoided the - now - mad dog.

[TLTeo]

That holds for any fox-3. Breaking lock on an AMRAMM platform at, say, 20nm means the missile will go pitbull at that distance and fail to acquire you.

[Larkis]

As i understand. The phoenix was build to defend the fleet for incoming longrange bombers of the sovjets.

 

 

After vietnam, rules of engagement chances, so planes need a visual identification for the target bevor shooting it. So ther simply was no scenario for using a weapon with such range.

 

 

 

You also dont co with a sharpshooter rifle to a close combat fight in a house.

[umkhunto]

Bwahaha... Notching?

 

After some reading of the RIO toys in the manual, and about 2-3 hours playing around in the RIO pit, I can confidently say, you may well be able to notch Jester, but you will not notch a human RIO that has spent some time with the AWG-9. If a good RIO has you on scope, in any mode, and their pilots follow to their direction, you are dead anywhere within 25nmi.

Edited March 27, 2019 by umkhunto

[The LT]

Bwahaha... Notching?

 

After some reading of the RIO toys in the manual, and about 2-3 hours playing around in the RIO pit, I can confidently say, you may well be able to notch Jester, but you will not notch a human RIO that has spent some time with the AWG-9. If a good RIO has you on scope, in any mode, and their pilots follow to their direction, you are dead anywhere within 25nmi.

Self-confident much?

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6010 using Tapatalk

[jojo]

Here's your problem, the AI AIM-54 ain't the same as HT's AIM-54.

 

What allows you to say that ?

 

From my point of view, HB Tomcat uses HB AIM-54, even when AI.

Original ED AI Tomcat uses ED AIM-54.

[solus]

To put it in more simple terms: why there were no descendants to AIM-54? Long range missiles went extinct.

 

Strange, considering their performance in DCS.

 

Anyway, how did they "simulate" missiles behavior in game? Anybody knows nothing.

[pepin1234]

The simple question: if AIM-54 was so effective, why did US get rid of it?

 

In DCS Phoenix missile looks like AIM-120 on steroids. Due to the bug that makes DCS crush while flying in F-14, I tried dueling in Su-27 vs F-14 with AIM-54... I must admit, I didn't make it once. AIM-54 looks like unavoidable super weapon that can hit targets from 50 miles!

 

Could it be so in real life? And why they made this missile so powerful, despite the poor performance in Iraq war. As manuals states: "The US Navy fired only three AIM-54 missiles in combat, all three over Iraq. The missiles never hit their intended

targets though as two of the missiles’ rocket motors failed with the third also missing its target as it turned tail and ran."

 

The calculation and implementation fo A-A missiles must be made by ED. This is the best example developers should not make the missiles flight model.

 

If this wanna be a serious simulator someone outside headblur must get on charge this missile rework

[Airhunter]

Well, you can't really base the AIM54's performance on 3 launches. You can only do windtunnel/CAD and balistics tests, like Heatblur did. Sure, the 54 struggles against smaller and more maneuverable fighters since it was primarily designed to take on large bombers or cruise missiles.

[TLTeo]

To put it in more simple terms: why there were no descendants to AIM-54? Long range missiles went extinct.

 

 

The Meteor, Aim120D, R33, R37, PL-15 and PL-21 are all in some way comparable in range to the Phoenix. Long range missiles never went extinct.

[solus]

The Meteor, Aim120D, R33, R37, PL-15 and PL-21 are all in some way comparable in range to the Phoenix. Long range missiles never went extinct.

 

In US they went extinct.

 

AIM 120D is somehow comparable to Phoenix, but still it belongs to medium range missiles type. The long range missile in modern circumstances would be someting like 2x of 3x of AIM 120D range.

[Airhunter]

Only a matter of time until we get combat long-range lasers and shit. ;)

[pepin1234]

The Meteor, Aim120D, R33, R37, PL-15 and PL-21 are all in some way comparable in range to the Phoenix. Long range missiles never went extinct.

 

BS. All these missiles are new gen missiles or have better ECM performance at long range. Aim-54 never performance well in this situation and in close combat even worst against a fighter. What we have it now with this headblur supermissile is the edge in technology never happen

[TLTeo]

BS. All these missiles are new gen missiles or have better ECM performance at long range. Aim-54 never performance well in this situation and in close combat even worst against a fighter. What we have it now with this headblur supermissile is the edge in technology never happen

 

 

I was only comparing their range to the AIM54. Calm down.

[Victory205]

BS. All these missiles are new gen missiles or have better ECM performance at long range. Aim-54 never performance well in this situation and in close combat even worst against a fighter. What we have it now with this headblur supermissile is the edge in technology never happen

 

This is why commenting is useless. The perceptions are wrong, and the people commenting and making decisions will never have the data, and also have competing agendas. Performance deltas are all artificial. They pretty much have to be.

 

Just enjoy the game in this arena.

[Tirak]

BS. All these missiles are new gen missiles or have better ECM performance at long range. Aim-54 never performance well in this situation and in close combat even worst against a fighter. What we have it now with this headblur supermissile is the edge in technology never happen

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2803437&postcount=13

 

I don't want to get into this fight again now that we have the missile in game and I'd rather be slinging that around than arguing about it, but here's some info that may change your mind. If not, meh, if so, great and have fun.

[pepin1234]

The AIM-54 was made by Headblur with agreement with ED. Time to do something about. Enjoy this moment will be the best

[GGTharos]

What exactly so you want to do about it? The worst issue by far is the missile desync, and there's nothing HB can do about it.