A101Wayz Posted April 3, 2019 Posted April 3, 2019 If the AIM-7M is considered a mach 4 medium range missile, why do they usually fly less than 5NM miles in front of me, only to have me passing them 30 secs after launch, when I'm only doing 550knts? Is this a bug? Wayz Out Intel Core i9 9900K | ASUS ROG Strix Z390E Gaming MB | G.Skill Ripjaws V 32gb DDR4-3200 | GeForce RTX 2080 Ti | Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe HTC Vive Pro VR | Logitech G x56 HOTAS | Logitech G PRO Pedals
Knock-Knock Posted April 3, 2019 Posted April 3, 2019 Not really. Down low in the dense air they travel a lot shorter than up high in the thin air. - Jack of many DCS modules, master of none. - Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS. | Windows 11 | i5-12400 | 64Gb DDR4 | RTX 3080 | 2x M.2 | 27" 1440p | Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind pedals |
A101Wayz Posted April 4, 2019 Author Posted April 4, 2019 Not really. Down low in the dense air they travel a lot shorter than up high in the thin air. Happens at all altitudes and attitudes. Only way I can get a sparrow to hit the target is to be within 5nm when firing. Wayz Out Intel Core i9 9900K | ASUS ROG Strix Z390E Gaming MB | G.Skill Ripjaws V 32gb DDR4-3200 | GeForce RTX 2080 Ti | Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe HTC Vive Pro VR | Logitech G x56 HOTAS | Logitech G PRO Pedals
statrekmike Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Are you firing at a target coming at you are going away from you? That makes a big difference.
1Shot1KiLL Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 If the AIM-7M is considered a mach 4 medium range missile, why do they usually fly less than 5NM miles in front of me, only to have me passing them 30 secs after launch, when I'm only doing 550knts? Is this a bug? l use them as radar guided sidewinders :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
DocSigma Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 The 7M should have a range of 30+ miles. How effective that is when you consider a moving target your trying to hold a radar lock onto is another matter completely. Th 7C is the one with the barely 10nM range. Ryzen9 5800X3D, Gigabyte Aorus X570 Elite, 32Gb Gskill Trident DDR4 3600 CL16, Samsung 990 Pr0 1Tb Nvme Gen4, Evo860 1Tb 2.5 SSD and Team 1Tb 2.5 SSD, MSI Suprim X RTX4090 , Corsair h115i Platinum AIO, NZXT H710i case, Seasonic Focus 850W psu, Gigabyte Aorus AD27QHD Gsync 1ms IPS 2k monitor 144Mhz, Track ir4, VKB Gunfighter Ultimate w/extension, Virpil T50 CM3 Throttle, Saitek terrible pedals, RiftS
Mods-o_joy Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 The AIM-7M in DCS has had a long standing performance issue, launching with 1000 Kts of closure on a non manuvering target the missile will only hit mach 1.2 instead of its rated mach 4 and will run out of energy to manuver if launched outside of 11 miles max. A10C - Block 5+7, AV8B/NA Harrier, F-14B. Pentium G4560, GTX 1050Ti, 20GB's total, 1x16GB Kingston Hyper X, And a 1x4GB Avexir Core Series kit, fleamarket mouse/keyboard, i swear it works fine :megalol:
fmedges Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 I thought the heatblur aim 7 was different than the ED aim 7, am I wrong? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Allied Air Command Website | Allied Air Command Discord
jojo Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) Talking about missile's range without specifying: - launch range or intercept range ? - launcher/ target altitudes - launcher/ target speeds - target aspect - remaining speed on target and target evasive actions means nothing. If the target knows what he is doing, a BVR shot will most likely trash, but will put target on defensive. To kill you have to disrupt target's situational awareness (SA). So if you're alone you play ambush style, or you work with your team. Within 10Nm on "hot" target an AIM-7M is a serious threat...R-27ER even more (in game) :music_whistling: With Fox 1 a good spot to kill is in look up, hot aspect but "out of scope" (outside target's radar coverage) and inside 10Nm. About ED Vs HB AIM-7 this would be a good thing to know. Hornet and Tomcat share AIM-7F and AIM-7M. It would be good to have the same missiles' flight profile for both fighters. Edited April 4, 2019 by jojo Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi
probad Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) tested fa-18 aim-7f/m/mh vs f-14 aim-7m simultaneous launches @ 23000' 300kias tailshots from 5 miles, performance is the same. i havent seen any testing from people saying that the hb aim-7 is better. in fact we saw the ed aim-7m (not mh) actually accelerate better and achieve higher peak velocity than the hb aim-7m Edited April 4, 2019 by probad
A101Wayz Posted April 4, 2019 Author Posted April 4, 2019 Couple things... I'm using airliners as targets for this test, so the target is not out-flying the missile. I've launched at every target aspect angle and range, in every mode where it's possible to launch. I'm not losing radar lock. The result is almost always the same. Missile flies out to less than 5nm and looks like it slows down to sub-sonic speeds. It doesn't appear to be circling, looking for a target. It actually appears to be just hanging in space. Guess I'll try re-installing the game and see if that produces different results... Wayz Out Intel Core i9 9900K | ASUS ROG Strix Z390E Gaming MB | G.Skill Ripjaws V 32gb DDR4-3200 | GeForce RTX 2080 Ti | Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe HTC Vive Pro VR | Logitech G x56 HOTAS | Logitech G PRO Pedals
Hummingbird Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 I have to agree that the AIM-7 is in urgent need of an adjustment. I have yet to see one reach Mach 4, and it slows down incredibly fast as well. Achieving the listed 38 nm effective range with the AIM-7 against a target moving towards you is also impossible ingame, heck even half that seems dodgy.
Rabbisaur Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Yes, play a lot Fox-1 only PVP on BuddySpike Cauc server. I usually fire the sparrow only when the range is <7NM otherwise it simple won't hit anything. I recently had a nice game I fired a 7M at 6NM upon a M2000, about 1.5 sec later I followed by firing a 9M. And both missiles were tracking very well. Just that about 0.5 seconds before they both hit the target, 9M killed the 7M en-route... I also had a kill, I fired 7M at 3NM upon a head on M2000 in ACM mode(STT lock). I got a splash at the moment of we passing each other at 3-9 line <1NM apart. I was flying faster or at the same speed with my 7M for the 3NM gap...
FoxAlfa Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 The AIM-7 is probably best documented and modeled missile in the game. IASTAG did a very very in depth analyzes and provide it to ED and the misslie has been adjusted. Please check this thread. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=210940 ------- All the people keep asking for capabilities to be modelled.... I want the limitations to be modelled.... limitations make for realistic simulation. Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a bit you realize the pig likes it. Long time ago in galaxy far far away: https://www.deviantart.com/alfafox/gallery
Rabbisaur Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 The AIM-7 is probably best documented and modeled missile in the game. IASTAG did a very very in depth analyzes and provide it to ED and the misslie has been adjusted. Please check this thread. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=210940 What are you trying to say with it? I find your comment quite out of place here. The very in depth analysis provided by IASTAG did not cover 7M.
QuiGon Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) What are you trying to say with it? I find your comment quite out of place here. The very in depth analysis provided by IASTAG did not cover 7M. No, your comment is out of place! Have you even checked the thread? He does talk about the 7M specifically: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3540081#post3540081 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3540821#post3540821 Test images: https://imgur.com/a/dHuhFrB And the devs reacted (e.g here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3542532#post3542532). Edited April 4, 2019 by QuiGon Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Rabbisaur Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) No, your comment is out of place! Have you even checked the thread? He does talk about the 7M specifically: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3540081#post3540081 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3540821#post3540821 Test images: https://imgur.com/a/dHuhFrB And the devs reacted (e.g here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3542532#post3542532). I can also talk about 7M here. "(fake) 7M can shoot up to 360Km and hit a maneuvering fighter size target with over 90% PK." You are aware that talking without evidence is a crime, right. And none of the real evidence in that thread has anything about 7M... Edited April 4, 2019 by Rabbisaur
umkhunto Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 I can also talk about 7M here. "(fake) 7M can shoot up to 360Km and hit a maneuvering fighter size target with over 90% PK." You are aware that talking without evidence is a crime, right. And none of the real evidence in that thread has anything about 7M... Pack it in bois, we got ourselves a genius over here.
turkeydriver Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Ive had 23 mile kills with the AIM-7M in the F/A-18. VF-2 Bounty Hunters https://www.csg-1.com/ DCS F-14 Pilot/RIO Discord: https://discord.gg/6bbthxk
QuiGon Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 I can also talk about 7M here. "(fake) 7M can shoot up to 360Km and hit a maneuvering fighter size target with over 90% PK." You are aware that talking without evidence is a crime, right. And none of the real evidence in that thread has anything about 7M... Don't put words in my mouth. I've never said there is real evidance about the 7M in this thread. I jsut said that the talk and the in-depth analysis by IASGAT in the thread is about the 7M, which you denied. Besides that you haven't came up with any real evidence either. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Rabbisaur Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Don't put words in my mouth. I've never said there is real evidance about the 7M in this thread. I jsut said that the talk and the in-depth analysis by IASGAT in the thread is about the 7M, which you denied. Besides that you haven't came up with any real evidence either. Hahahahah, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you mentioned the suspicious behavior of 7M that is being discussed here has been analyzed in depth and fixed to match with real life data earlier. I don't have any real life evidence of AIM7M/MH performance either. I'm saying that in the game it indeed has a very short effective range as I observed in my countless number of engagement against Su27/33, Mig29, M2000 and F18s. It is indeed suspicious, and this kind of behavior can justify the creation of this thread, I fully understand. Especially when you compare the performance of 7M/MH against 530D on M2000. Most of my MP kills on F14 is achieved by 9M. When fired at the same range about 5NM, 9M definitely has a higher PK than 7M. And when fired any longer than 5NM, the 7M does no good at hitting any opponent. And if a M2000 fired upon you within 10NM with 530D, there is a very good chance that you are dead already.
QuiGon Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Hahahahah, sorry, I misunderstood. Alright then. IASGAT is actually confirming there that the missile falls way to short at lower altitudes. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
Banzaiib Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) Ironically, much work was put into the AIM-7 in 2018 to reduce oscillations that reduced performance, but they never really completed the work. There are so many low hanging fruits regarding weapon performance... they just refuse to prioritize development tasks based on how fricken easy the solution is (adjusting lua files to match real world data). MP missile guidance is a mess too, and maybe they have a new system they're working on, or just kicking it down the road... who knows I've killed players in DDCS with the AIM-7 fired at 23 miles... they just flew right into it (probably didn't turn on their RWR)... but the motor burn time is way off from real data, and the drag coefficients are too high as well across the board on almost all missiles. Wags could fix this, it's so simple. It's all just tables contained in the missile and weapons lua files that can EASILY be adjusted. I have no idea why they don't address this... Edited April 4, 2019 by Banzaiib
Fercyful Posted April 8, 2019 Posted April 8, 2019 Just test the AIM-7 against MiG-23 (different angles), they are like radar sidewinders :cry: (still sidewinders works better) Hope ED will fix em :pilotfly:
Dino Might Posted April 8, 2019 Posted April 8, 2019 tested fa-18 aim-7f/m/mh vs f-14 aim-7m simultaneous launches @ 23000' 300kias tailshots from 5 miles, performance is the same. i havent seen any testing from people saying that the hb aim-7 is better. in fact we saw the ed aim-7m (not mh) actually accelerate better and achieve higher peak velocity than the hb aim-7m I'm confused. First they perform exactly the same, and then the ED missile performs better? Which is it?
Recommended Posts