[NO BUG] Tarmac seems to short

[ctd01]

Hello guys.

 

You have to excuse me my novice status, but I find it very difficult to stop the Cat once on the tarmac.

 

It seems the wheelbrake is slow as hell, and every time I've had a lucky landing on the tarmac I pass it through, ending up in the woods as well.

 

What do I do wrong?

 

Wheelbrakes are functioning well (set on my Fanatec gear pedals V3) when I taxi out to the starting strip, so I don't think that's the problem.

 

Regards

Michael

Edited April 8, 2019 by IronMike

[MurderOne]

How fast are you landing? She stops pretty good in my opinion

[1Shot1KiLL]

open airbreaks, PUSH THE STİCK FORWARD. the elivators will act as a huge airbrake and push the nose down creating more drag and weight. once that has slowed you down then aply Wheel breaks. saim goes for every plane includeing props :)

[Eldur]

The Hornet with full wheel brakes has like three times the landing roll of the Tomcat that doesn't use the wheel brakes at all... the cat literally could land on a dime even without the hook, at least that's what I feel about her in DCS.

[Donut]

No problem stopping here either...I don't even use the wheel brakes until the absolute end to come to a complete stop. On touchdown, all I do is slowly pull the stick aft until all the way back...the elevators will act as an air brake.

[VampireNZ]

I actually find that full aft stick after touchdown and I don't really even need the wheel brakes until ready to turnoff - makes quite a difference.

[Sergeant_Hamlet]

can you record one of your landings?

[StandingCow]

Agreed with others... I don't even need brakes usually.

[TonyG]

open airbreaks, PUSH THE STİCK FORWARD. the elivators will act as a huge airbrake and push the nose down creating more drag and weight. once that has slowed you down then aply Wheel breaks. saim goes for every plane includeing props :)

 

Interesting....I’d like to see this tried in a tail dragger. Pushing the stick forward I’ve never seen referenced in a flight manual. Be a great way to damage nose gear in a tricycle gear aircraft.

 

If you’re going to recommend a technique, referencing a real world application would be good otherwise it’s just bad information.

 

When I was taught to land the 172, we were taught to hold it off as long as possible and never applied forward yoke pressure on rollout. Full aft for sure, never forward.

 

Edit to add. NATOPs manual for the F-14B specifically indicates full AFT stick after touchdown.

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by TonyG

[Deano87]

open airbreaks, PUSH THE STİCK FORWARD. the elivators will act as a huge airbrake and push the nose down creating more drag and weight. once that has slowed you down then aply Wheel breaks. saim goes for every plane includeing props :)

 

Yeah that’s the opposite of what I do (stick full aft) but whatever works for you dude.

 

In reply to OP as long as you’re landing anywhere near landing speed/AOA, Have the spoiler brakes setup correctly and plant the stick full back once it’s settled down the Tomcat stops surprisingly well without using any brakes at al!!

[1Shot1KiLL]

Yeah that’s the opposite of what I do (stick full aft) but whatever works for you dude.

 

In reply to OP as long as you’re landing anywhere near landing speed/AOA, Have the spoiler brakes setup correctly and plant the stick full back once it’s settled down the Tomcat stops surprisingly well without using any brakes at al!!

 

push stick forward after tuchdown and some distance covered at the runway. obviously not on approch. you not gonna damage the tomcats landing gear pushing the stick forward Rolling down the runway. this action will press the aircraft to the ground, the elivators acting like a F-1 cars spoiler, makeing you get MAX downforce, there for slow you down very quickly. try it and see.

Edited April 7, 2019 by 1Shot1KiLL

[ctd01]

Thank you all for your kind and helpfull answers.

 

I'll try to move the stick aft after landing. Or forward if that doesn't help. :-)

 

I usually try to land in 250-300 knots. Is that to fast?

 

Carrier landings I have not tried yet. Want to learn how to land her normally first.

 

Regards

Michael

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Thank you all for your kind and helpfull answers.

 

I'll try to move the stick aft after landing. Or forward if that doesn't help. :-)

 

I usually try to land in 250-300 knots. Is that to fast?

 

Carrier landings I have not tried yet. Want to learn how to land her normally first.

 

Regards

Michael

 

:shocking::shocking::shocking:

 

YES! Normal landing speed around 130kts, but you should be referencing your AoA not speed anyway.

[ctd01]

:shocking::shocking::shocking:

 

YES! Normal landing speed around 130kts, but you should be referencing your AoA not speed anyway.

 

Thanks. Seems I have lots to learn. In Viggen, with thrust reverse, landing is a piece of cake.:D

 

M

[Ramsay]

I usually try to land in 250-300 knots. Is that to fast?

lol, yes by a lot.

 

Landing gear down below 250, flaps down below 200 (gear max 280, flaps max 225).

 

Landing at @ 150 or less (135 typical), flying 15 units AOA.

 

Wings sweep @ 20° / Auto, flaps=full, spoiler+anti-skid=both (for tarmac), DLC armed (optional in DCS).

 

Seems I have lots to learn. In Viggen, with thrust reverse, landing is a piece of cake.

 

Perhaps not that much, 250-300 km/h in the Viggen = 135-160 knots in the Tomcat

Edited April 7, 2019 by Ramsay
Note the Viggen is metric

[SonofEil]

I usually try to land in 250-300 knots. Is that to fast?

Sweet mother of... That’s amazing!

If you can do that consistently with success, bravo sir!

If the plane can handle that consistently with success, HB you’ve got a lot of work to do on your damage model and ground handling physics!

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I think the tyres would explode if nothing else.

[ctd01]

Hi again and once again thanks for your kind answers.

 

I have tried some more landings now applying your tips.

 

First of all. I've checked the speedometer more carefully this time and it seems I usually come in in approx 200 knots, not the 250-300ish I said before. Still to fast, I know, but it seems I have difficulties to fly her more slow allthough I o.f.c. use flaps and airbrakes before the landing. I have to train more on this part.

 

Second. In that speed I can't pull the stick aft at all. That will only result in a touch and go. So I push it full forward to begin with instead. That helps a lot. Not to the extent I manage to stop within the tarmac, but not far from it.

 

Training, training and more training I need to exercise.

 

But your tips really helped. Thanks a lot.

 

M

[VampireNZ]

 

You want the top of the middle white line sitting at the 15 degree line during approach and landing - regardless of airspeed.

Ensure you have the Anti-Skid/Spoiler switch to BOTH for landing, let it settle onto the ground then gently apply full aft stick. You don't want the nose to raise again thou (hit the back end on the runway) so be gently to max deflection.

Edited April 7, 2019 by VampireNZ

[fat creason]

Hi again and once again thanks for your kind answers.

 

I have tried some more landings now applying your tips.

 

First of all. I've checked the speedometer more carefully this time and it seems I usually come in in approx 200 knots, not the 250-300ish I said before. Still to fast, I know, but it seems I have difficulties to fly her more slow allthough I o.f.c. use flaps and airbrakes before the landing. I have to train more on this part.

 

Second. In that speed I can't pull the stick aft at all. That will only result in a touch and go. So I push it full forward to begin with instead. That helps a lot. Not to the extent I manage to stop within the tarmac, but not far from it.

 

Training, training and more training I need to exercise.

 

But your tips really helped. Thanks a lot.

 

M

 

If you’re touching down at 200 KIAS and you immediately yank the stick back it should be no surprise that it results in a touch and go. I’m surprised that you can even get it to touch down at that speed while in ground effect unless you’re practically flying it into the ground. Land at 15 units AOA with the flaps down and ease the stick aft on landing rollout below 100 KIAS. This will provide aerodynamic braking from the stabs. You can also use lateral stick to maintain centerline via differential stab, but keep the stick aft while doing this.

Edited April 8, 2019 by fat creason

[IronMike]

open airbreaks, PUSH THE STİCK FORWARD. the elivators will act as a huge airbrake and push the nose down creating more drag and weight. once that has slowed you down then aply Wheel breaks. saim goes for every plane includeing props :)

 

 

 

 

This is wrong, please. Stick full aft (gently, not abruptly), this will help with braking, but also will allow you to do lateral steering with stick left and right roll input, something unique to our flight model.

 

Land on speed, do not flare, do not use wheelbrakes until nsw is engaged, use stick aft and lateral stick for steering (instead of rudder), land on the tiremarks, and she lands exquisitely. :thumbup:

Edited April 8, 2019 by IronMike

[IronMike]

I made this quick video for you guys to demonstrate it, nothing special and most certainly not as in depth as an SME would put it, but I hope it helps a bit. Happy landings!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

small note: whenever I say "indexer" I mean "indicator" and whenever I say "indicator" I mean "indexer" lol. my bad, was just a quick one take vid..

 

another small addition: the indexer is blinking, because the hook is not extended. since I did it in such a haste, I forgot to set the hook bypass to field, which turns that off. I will probably redo the vid proper soon and post it extra.

Edited April 9, 2019 by IronMike

[Donut]

Great tips Heatblur! I did not know about the lateral stick for steering....does the same apply during takeoff as well?

[IronMike]

Great tips Heatblur! I did not know about the lateral stick for steering....does the same apply during takeoff as well?

 

 

You really would not use it during take off, but technically it applies as well. Use NSW steering until 100kts for take off (Jester calls them out), then disengage it and use rudder. stick aft gently until reaching 150 kts, she will take off nicely. if you are heavy you can add some or full ABs on wheels off or just befor lifting off. Also note: only maneuver flaps on landbased take offs. Hope that helps.

[Donut]

You really would not use it during take off, but technically it applies as well. Use NSW steering until 100kts for take off (Jester calls them out), then disengage it and use rudder. stick aft gently until reaching 150 kts, she will take off nicely. if you are heavy you can add some or full ABs on wheels off or just befor lifting off. Also note: only maneuver flaps on landbased take offs. Hope that helps.

 

Whoa, thanks IronMike...a lot of new information here.

 

I have been using NWS on takeoff so that's good to go. However, I have never heard Jester give speed callouts on takeoff...

 

I didn't now about they maneuvering flaps on land-based takeoffs either...I thought it was widely believed (at least I did) that it was full flaps for both land and carrier.

 

Thank you for helping make me a better virtual Tomcat pilot! Keep up the amazing work!