IFF Single Target Track

[flywaldair (Skynet dev.)]

Can someone explain how an IFF is possible in this part of Wags video?

 

 

He is attacking from the rear so I guess a NCTR is not possible. Earlier in the same video he states that NCTR and Mode 4 IFF are required to identify a hostile.

 

So why is a Mode 4 IFF sufficient to identify the target as hostile in such a situation?

[flywaldair (Skynet dev.)]

I just noticed that NCTR works from either the nose or tail, so that explains how IFF is possible in Wags video.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Personally, I find the whole IFF NCTR SA HAFU business rather confusing and 'finicky'. Toggling between SA and Radar pages, SSS and/or TDC depresses, undesignate working with traditional AACQ STTs but not double TDC depressed STTs, etc. I also get the feeling it's 'not working properly', maybe to simulate real life. They said the radar needs to scan the fan blades from the intake to get NCTR but I think you get better luck from the rear. I have had Migs right in front of me and still no name ID. The definition of 'hostile' also has various levels. Donors can show clearly it is hostile but does your plane need to confirm it too before firing? Once your HAFU 'staple' becomes a 'caret', is it not hostile enough to fire on? Or do you need it to become red? These things aren't explained clearly.

 

A proper manual or another video from someone who can explain better from the perspective of a once perplexed user is needed.

[_mu110_]

The IFF system is still missing some key features like automatic interrogation which is tied into the AZ/EL format. This will alleviate at least some of what you and the rest of us are probably struggling with once it comes online.

[Jak525]

Personally, I find the whole IFF NCTR SA HAFU business rather confusing and 'finicky'. Toggling between SA and Radar pages, SSS and/or TDC depresses, undesignate working with traditional AACQ STTs but not double TDC depressed STTs, etc. I also get the feeling it's 'not working properly', maybe to simulate real life. They said the radar needs to scan the fan blades from the intake to get NCTR but I think you get better luck from the rear. I have had Migs right in front of me and still no name ID. The definition of 'hostile' also has various levels. Donors can show clearly it is hostile but does your plane need to confirm it too before firing? Once your HAFU 'staple' becomes a 'caret', is it not hostile enough to fire on? Or do you need it to become red? These things aren't explained clearly.

 

A proper manual or another video from someone who can explain better from the perspective of a once perplexed user is needed.

You can do all IFF-ing from just the RDR ATTK format. You don't need to toggle to the SA. Also, hostile does not mean you can or cannot fire. All it is is trying to aid the pilot. It's up to you whether you know it's a hostile or not for sure. If the plane marks it hostile it's very likely it is, as either another plane already confirmed + you got no IFF return or you NCTR'd it and got no IFF return as well.

 

The caret/triangle/chevron is the hostile HAFU symbol. It will be red when it is somewhere it is colored (you can disable color in the RDR ATTK format), always -- the color is just a way to make it more intuitive.

 

To note, with the AZ/EL format we'll be getting some automatic IFF options.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

You can do all IFF-ing from just the RDR ATTK format. You don't need to toggle to the SA. Also, hostile does not mean you can or cannot fire. All it is is trying to aid the pilot. It's up to you whether you know it's a hostile or not for sure. If the plane marks it hostile it's very likely it is, as either another plane already confirmed + you got no IFF return or you NCTR'd it and got no IFF return as well.

 

The caret/triangle/chevron is the hostile HAFU symbol. It will be red when it is somewhere it is colored (you can disable color in the RDR ATTK format), always -- the color is just a way to make it more intuitive.

 

To note, with the AZ/EL format we'll be getting some automatic IFF options.

 

"It will be red when it is somewhere..." by that do you mean it is red when within a certain distance?

 

Yes, from RDR ATTK you can do most but I still have to go to SA with cursor over target if I want to get the name of the plane (most often it is UNK even when head on) or is that optional as an ROE?

 

Thanks!

[Jak525]

"It will be red when it is somewhere..." by that do you mean it is red when within a certain distance?

 

Yes, from RDR ATTK you can do most but I still have to go to SA with cursor over target if I want to get the name of the plane (most often it is UNK even when head on) or is that optional as an ROE?

 

Thanks!

Sorry, I mean it will be red when the HAFU is displayed somewhere, as in on a page, where color is enabled. You can disable the color in the RDR ATTK page. If HAFU color is enabled hostile will always be red. They go hand in hand.

 

And yes but you don't need to TDC over on the SA format for the airplane to know the NCTR result, so it will still identify it as hostile. That's just for you to see the result.

[Tenkom]

Doesn’t yellow mean hostile in any case in dcs? If they are friendly they will turn green and there are no neutrals right? Or am I missing something?

[blkspade]

Doesn’t yellow mean hostile in any case in dcs? If they are friendly they will turn green and there are no neutrals right? Or am I missing something?

 

Yellow simply means unknown, according to your own sensors. Red is confirmed hostile. All contacts initially are yellow, when they hit your radar before IFF is attempted. I'd imagine the 2-factor authentication, if realistic, is a function that would rule out civilian/non-military aircraft via NCTR.

[Tenkom]

Yellow simply means unknown, according to your own sensors. Red is confirmed hostile. All contacts initially are yellow, when they hit your radar before IFF is attempted. I'd imagine the 2-factor authentication, if realistic, is a function that would rule out civilian/non-military aircraft via NCTR.

 

Yes. But friendlies will always turn green. So if it stays yellow after iff it’s hostile right?

[Ahmed]

Yes. But friendlies will always turn green. So if it stays yellow after iff it’s hostile right?

 

Could be a damaged friendly with broken IFF transponder... would be great to have this possible in DCS

[_mu110_]

Would civilian aircraft show up as unknown or does it have its own designation?

[Sarge55]

I believe those type of contacts would be ambiguous / unknown and would require visual ID.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

The way I understand it is that it is the top and bottom HAFU symbols that determines...

 

Unknown (yellow): Top ⎴ from own aircraft / Bottom ⏘ from donor

Friend (green): Top ◠ from own aircraft / Bottom ◡ from donor

Hostile (red or yellow): Top ^ from own aircraft / Bottom ⌄ from donor

 

Red is only colour choice in the DDI setting to make a hostile more obvious but it's an optional setting so it can't be a criterion per se? That's what I gather from the earlier posts.

Edited April 9, 2019 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[QuiGon]

Could be a damaged friendly with broken IFF transponder... would be great to have this possible in DCS

Yeah, it would be so cool if DCS would actually simulate transponder functionality. I'm waiting for this so much, I even made a thread about it some years ago: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=161240

 

Nothing has happened so far. You can still use a modern fighter to interrogate a Focke Wulf succesfully, which is just total bullshit. And the lack of transponder malfunctions, misconfigurations and ambigious targets take away so much from an interesting and true to life air combat simulation :(

[Tholozor]

I wonder what conditions determine an ambiguous HAFU versus an unknown HAFU. I would imagine an ambiguous HAFU could be obtained by gaining an NCTR print before performing IFF. Like if you had a scenario involving, say a German MiG-29 coming towards you, but he's friendly. If you get the NCTR return as a MiG-29 before you perform the interrogation, would that constitute an ambiguous HAFU?

[backspace340]

I wonder what conditions determine an ambiguous HAFU versus an unknown HAFU. I would imagine an ambiguous HAFU could be obtained by gaining an NCTR print before performing IFF. Like if you had a scenario involving, say a German MiG-29 coming towards you, but he's friendly. If you get the NCTR return as a MiG-29 before you perform the interrogation, would that constitute an ambiguous HAFU?

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3861795&postcount=3

[Tholozor]

Thanks backspace, that thread got buried pretty fast.